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What the hell BC.
Stop and think about what you're saying. What additional information is the check going to give mafia? It's only an alignment check and not a rolecheck, and the mafia already knows everyone's alignment, barring 3rd parties.
If we think he's scummy, we can always kill him. If every target he investigates keeps returning green we just don't trust it.
Think of it this way, supersoft checks someone:
a) returns green, we completely ignore the result (just assume he didn't check)
b) returns red, we test it.
If b fails, we kill him.
I have no idea how you can not see this.
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No Mafia wants to be put into a position where they have to surrender any more information than they have to. Even if supersoft was Mafia, which is unlikely, having to submit himself to bussing more teammates or getting caught in lies is detrimental to him as well. You're just introducing a shitload of WIFOM too "well Mafia can't act like obvious Mafia so whoever is acting least like Mafia is probably Mafia but maybe they know that too so we can't trust that either."
We as town cannot trust his checks fully, but third party or mafia can. They get far more information from a check than we as a town do. They can fire their shots based on his checks, etc... Stacking hits is a normal strategy, they know who to rb, etc.... We are giving freebie shots to non town groups based on his checks if he is in fact town. If he is third party doesn't matter much other than it builds him credibility to live, and as red again builds credibility to live.
This is just ridiculous. Mafia gets more info from an alignment check than we do? Mafia knows everyone's alignments (in terms of Mafia vs not Mafia) anyways. How is supersoft pointing at someone and saying he is Town giving Mafia information? Herp derp, they knew that already. Unless you're somehow convinced Mafia getting 3rd Party alignments will lose the game for Town.
"If he is SK he will most likely out the reds"
Yep, that's the whole point of us wanting to use his ability. Point out reds.
If we're in a position where we can't trust his checks, ie he's Mafia, then Mafia isn't getting anything from his checks either because they know it's BS.
Mafia shooting YM pretty much shows how afraid they are of alignment checks and BC is falling right into it.
Please people, lynch BC.
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On July 26 2011 06:30 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On July 26 2011 06:22 Curu wrote:
No, I just think BC is far scummier. Kita has asked some questions and acted suspicious, but BC is straight up here arguing against a very likely Town player using his free DT check because "he might be lying." Thats because you guys are straight up not thinking. I am being logical, concise, and most importantly I am thinking on a level beyond "herp derp we got a blue". If I was red, why would I argue against his checks? Why would I throw myself into the fire of this nonsense and try to fix an obvious error in town judgement. Use your damn heads. Take a step back from the general "hes an alignment dt" and seriously think of motivations behind all sides for the move, how it benefits each side, which side benefits the most from all perspectives, etc... Town is almost always at the bottom of the list. His checks will hurt us more than help us at this point in time. No, you are being intentional obtuse; no one ever argued that we should trust his checks until there's further confirmation of his alignment. You kept changing your argument over and over again and now you are finally making some sense. You are just one of those players who can never admit to being wrong.
If none of you speak worries of your thoughts on a check until pressured. You didn't think that through enough to see the issues. I haven't fully changed my argument, I have added to it. My core argument is the same, where the information I use to back it up changes. Note that. I am still against his check, I was from the start. The information I use to get people to see reason is different that is all. My issue isn't being proven wrong and admitting to it, it is people who stubbornly believe they are always right when they fail to even mention the negatives to a situation. No one was talking about them, ie no one
A) cares
B) thought of them
C) herp derp
I have thus far been one of the most transparent players in this game, and saying otherwise makes you look bad.
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Watch out for Foolishness claiming to get entire scum team before day 1 is done.
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On July 26 2011 06:29 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 06:18 Curu wrote:
And what's your reasoning behind that Foolishness? Why Lanaia or Wiggles, what have they done that stands out to you? Wiggles is probably an SK. Lanaia does not  seeM to be posting with a pro-town state of mind.
What. Why do you think Wiggles is an SK?
You pointed out yourself that you don't like people who don't do behavioral analysis because they're lazy, can you enlighten us with your thoughts?
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On July 26 2011 06:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 06:15 Curu wrote:@BC It's a Pro Town power because it massively helps Town and very minimally hurts it. We are not saying he's very likely/confirmed Town because of his power. We are saying it because: It makes no sense for supersoft to be Mafia because if he was, he would just claim that yes he did kill YM and could provide his reasoning for it. Tackster goes safe, supersoft probably goes safe too, he had no reason to shoot Tackster if he was Mafia. If he's a 3rd then putting an alignment check in his hands, who gives a crap? You yourself agreed he is likely Town (but that it doesn't mean confirmed Town, which is right). Well, why so vehement against a likely Town player using his free DT power and giving us information? On the offchance that he's going to lie as 3rd Party (3rd Parties have no reason to lie about the alignment check, as he would get killed the instant he is caught lying) or the teeny tiny chance he's Mafia? And yes he was forced out but if he was Mafia then when forced out he would merely have just said yeah I shot YM cause I thought he was scum, my mistake sorry guys instead of willingly revealing that he wasn't the one and then shooting Tackster. There's no reason not to use his power. I would much rather have BC checked at this point unless you guys are up for lynching him. Simple reasoning to your bit on no sense. Take a look at the game flamewheel wrapped up few weeks ago. As red I directed a town hatter at a member of the mafia who was most likely going to live? Why? Credibility. I then had the team split on two opposite ends of an argument pushing for a lynch where both candidates were town. Why? Because no mafia would do that, etc... Doing what makes the "least" sense as a red at points will end up with the highest reward. Its unexpected and thus accepted as legit as it would be insane for a red to perform the move. There are many players who like to make gambits, or do moves like this and it is very rough to just outright accept someones claim at face value. His shooting tackster has even added to the "validity" of his claim. Why would mafia kill a person so quickly into the day when they could cover it up, etc... If you can't trust his check, then why use it? He checks me, says i'm green. Town goes, well i think hes lying. I get lynched and flip green. It says nothing of his alignment. If he says x flips red and he claims they are red and the person dies and flips town, yes then hes screwed. But if hes red all checks will flip as green until the mafia hit a point wher elosing 1 red is worth the exchange for one town. If he is SK he will most likely out the reds, etc... We as town cannot trust his checks fully, but third party or mafia can. They get far more information from a check than we as a town do. They can fire their shots based on his checks, etc... Stacking hits is a normal strategy, they know who to rb, etc.... We are giving freebie shots to non town groups based on his checks if he is in fact town. If he is third party doesn't matter much other than it builds him credibility to live, and as red again builds credibility to live.
On July 26 2011 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 06:22 Curu wrote:
No, I just think BC is far scummier. Kita has asked some questions and acted suspicious, but BC is straight up here arguing against a very likely Town player using his free DT check because "he might be lying." Thats because you guys are straight up not thinking. I am being logical, concise, and most importantly I am thinking on a level beyond "herp derp we got a blue". If I was red, why would I argue against his checks? Why would I throw myself into the fire of this nonsense and try to fix an obvious error in town judgement. Use your damn heads. Take a step back from the general "hes an alignment dt" and seriously think of motivations behind all sides for the move, how it benefits each side, which side benefits the most from all perspectives, etc... Town is almost always at the bottom of the list. His checks will hurt us more than help us at this point in time.
I found this very funny. :p
Also, what's giving you vibes that I'm an SK, foolishness? I'll agree to a check on myself if more people get behind it, but now if there's no reasoning there.
I'd say check BC, who was arguing against using a DT check at all, or DB, who should have suffered a penalty for outing SS' role, but didn't. Other than that, I'd say to check some low-key people.
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Yes, I asked for people to claim the Tim role. Then I asked for SS to kill whoever shot YM and it gave us dead scum. How is that bad? Also I can see jackal's reasoning for claiming in that situation. It's null at best for me, it does not indicate that jackal is scum, because he could do the same thing as either aligment. In the mean time you have kita. He's not just asking questions. He's pushing suspicion on people that he doesn't even think are scum. There is no reason to do that as town, thus he must be scum.
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On July 26 2011 06:33 Curu wrote:No Mafia wants to be put into a position where they have to surrender any more information than they have to. Even if supersoft was Mafia, which is unlikely, having to submit himself to bussing more teammates or getting caught in lies is detrimental to him as well. You're just introducing a shitload of WIFOM too "well Mafia can't act like obvious Mafia so whoever is acting least like Mafia is probably Mafia but maybe they know that too so we can't trust that either." Show nested quote +We as town cannot trust his checks fully, but third party or mafia can. They get far more information from a check than we as a town do. They can fire their shots based on his checks, etc... Stacking hits is a normal strategy, they know who to rb, etc.... We are giving freebie shots to non town groups based on his checks if he is in fact town. If he is third party doesn't matter much other than it builds him credibility to live, and as red again builds credibility to live. This is just ridiculous. Mafia gets more info from an alignment check than we do? Mafia knows everyone's alignments (in terms of Mafia vs not Mafia) anyways. How is supersoft pointing at someone and saying he is Town giving Mafia information? Herp derp, they knew that already. Unless you're somehow convinced Mafia getting 3rd Party alignments will lose the game for Town. "If he is SK he will most likely out the reds" Yep, that's the whole point of us wanting to use his ability. Point out reds. If we're in a position where we can't trust his checks, ie he's Mafia, then Mafia isn't getting anything from his checks either because they know it's BS. Mafia shooting YM pretty much shows how afraid they are of alignment checks and BC is falling right into it. Please people, lynch BC.
No mafia wants to? You are correct. He didn't however have a choice did he? Are you fucking retarded? HE WAS CALLED OUT BY HIS ROLE CREATOR. What's he going to do? Say "uh no im not that role" we spend time offing him and db and both die. In the situation now however he is already out in the open and no one was seriously speaking downsides or possibilities of him being of any alignment.
As for you saying mafia doesn't get more from a check? He publically claims people are legit or not -_-. Sup confirmed townie kills? Hearing me or foolishness cleared as a confirmed town makes us far more likely to get shot by mafia and third parties. At the moment with people annoyed with me I stand far less of a chance getting capped by third party or mafia as town would prob do it for them. That is the difference. Confirmation of a player gives them better insight of who to shoot. Mafia knows who isn't mafia, but not who is third party. Someone really solid as third party is just as dangerous to town as to them, but its another person who will shoot town.
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You don't know if he suffered his penalty or not Wiggles. It might just be he's roleblocked for tonight, who knows.
BC, would you submit to having supersoft check you?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 26 2011 06:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 06:27 sandroba wrote:
??? Because I actually don't think he's scum, based on behaviour. Also we know jackal's role (useless unless he has items) and kita has the potencial to have a good scum role. Where is your analysis that indicates jackal is scum? I like kita as scum much better. Jackal claimed ON was a red in disguise via his role, whereas ON claimed he was town. ON's role included a bit stating he had to kill HP. Regardless they were fighting for the same power items. It seems unlikely both are the same alignment, although they could be. Also, kita could have a good scum role? Everyone in this game could have a good scum role, that is not a valid reason to lynch someone. He asked questions and got shafted for it. That is far less scummy than a ton of day 1 rc's into creating this chaotic mess as of right now.
Jackal did not claim ON was a red in disguise. Jackal did not say ON was mafia. Jackal did not say we should lynch ON. All he said was 'don't give the wand to him'. Read his posts if you don't believe me.
On July 26 2011 06:31 Kurumi wrote:
Foolishness please don't make roles for me while scratching Your balls. Love, Kurumi
Love you too.
On July 26 2011 06:30 heist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 06:25 Foolishness wrote:I am in favor of using the check, but BC's arguments are looking better and better as time goes on. If we can't agree on the check then I'm totally envisioning a scenario where supersoft comes back and goes "oh hey I checked random person X because random person Y said so" and we can't hold him accountable because we as a town did not agree on who to check. I have slammed my head against my desk so many times reading the thread at the stupidity of players that I'm going to die of blood loss at this rate. I don't want that. We use the Check on someone like Wiggles, and even if it turns up mafia, we still kill Kitaman (or Jackal if he comes back and can't explain himself). We need the check's information, but we should not act upon it today. Are you kidding me? How is his argument getting better and better? SS using his check gives us NO NEGATIVES. Who cares if he just says town? If he flips green, we'll have a load of confirmed townies. Even if town argues about the dt target, if SS even checks one of them, we'll be good. ITS BETTER THAN NOTHING.
See I want to use the check but not act upon it just yet. However knowing the intelligence of this town so far that possibility is probably out the window in a  Flash. There are a bunch of negatives because the town will misuse the information.
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On July 26 2011 06:38 sandroba wrote:
Yes, I asked for people to claim the Tim role. Then I asked for SS to kill whoever shot YM and it gave us dead scum. How is that bad? Also I can see jackal's reasoning for claiming in that situation. It's null at best for me, it does not indicate that jackal is scum, because he could do the same thing as either aligment. In the mean time you have kita. He's not just asking questions. He's pushing suspicion on people that he doesn't even think are scum. There is no reason to do that as town, thus he must be scum.
Why would jackal have to claim? People know harry potter lore. Voldy is always evil. People would have been hesitant to actually trust him. Except you apparently?
he could have pm'd people using his mason ability and the like and found stuff that way. He opted to day 1 RC. Maybe he was scared, who knows, but it created a situation of chaos not helped get us back on serious track.
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BC please. I really don't know why you are still arguing about this. We are not all idiotic. We can choose to ignore SS if we want. Him claiming town DOES NOT make him more town in our eyes. The risk is nothing and the advantage everything.
Please read my argument about the confirmed townie bit if you are still arguing about that.
I swear if you are doing this to make people think scum won't be vehemently arguing against something so pro-town, I will be very annoyed.
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On July 26 2011 06:38 Curu wrote:
You don't know if he suffered his penalty or not Wiggles. It might just be he's roleblocked for tonight, who knows.
BC, would you submit to having supersoft check you?
Nope. As much as being confirmed town benefits town as a whole, it gets me shot by third party / mafia or some asshole townie who thinks they are being a hero.
Instead I will risk getting shot anyway, but the likelyhood of a third party shot or red goes down whereas the option of a townie shooting me is higher. Any med with half a brain will realize I have been trying to make people think and not be stupid and might protect me.
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On July 26 2011 06:41 heist wrote:
BC please. I really don't know why you are still arguing about this. We are not all idiotic. We can choose to ignore SS if we want. Him claiming town DOES NOT make him more town in our eyes. The risk is nothing and the advantage everything.
Please read my argument about the confirmed townie bit if you are still arguing about that.
I swear if you are doing this to make people think scum won't be vehemently arguing against something so pro-town, I will be very annoyed.
I am doing this because from past games that I have played in, read and hosted people take dt checks of any kind like some rule of god. He is not confirmed and any check he reveals some people will take as legit. It also gives mafia / sk awesome snipe shots that will make his checks worthless anyway if he is in fact town.
The cons far outweigh the pros. This is not day 3 or 4, we do not have a series of people who have proven themselves to be town. This is day 1 where we know nothing and should be basing all our decisions on what people say, not what some guy forces them to do.
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On July 26 2011 06:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 06:38 sandroba wrote:
Yes, I asked for people to claim the Tim role. Then I asked for SS to kill whoever shot YM and it gave us dead scum. How is that bad? Also I can see jackal's reasoning for claiming in that situation. It's null at best for me, it does not indicate that jackal is scum, because he could do the same thing as either aligment. In the mean time you have kita. He's not just asking questions. He's pushing suspicion on people that he doesn't even think are scum. There is no reason to do that as town, thus he must be scum. Why would jackal have to claim? People know harry potter lore. Voldy is always evil. People would have been hesitant to actually trust him. Except you apparently? he could have pm'd people using his mason ability and the like and found stuff that way. He opted to day 1 RC. Maybe he was scared, who knows, but it created a situation of chaos not helped get us back on serious track.
And thus he must be mafia??? Why are you even voting for him? Why is he a better lynch than kita?
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On July 26 2011 06:45 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 06:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On July 26 2011 06:38 sandroba wrote:
Yes, I asked for people to claim the Tim role. Then I asked for SS to kill whoever shot YM and it gave us dead scum. How is that bad? Also I can see jackal's reasoning for claiming in that situation. It's null at best for me, it does not indicate that jackal is scum, because he could do the same thing as either aligment. In the mean time you have kita. He's not just asking questions. He's pushing suspicion on people that he doesn't even think are scum. There is no reason to do that as town, thus he must be scum. Why would jackal have to claim? People know harry potter lore. Voldy is always evil. People would have been hesitant to actually trust him. Except you apparently? he could have pm'd people using his mason ability and the like and found stuff that way. He opted to day 1 RC. Maybe he was scared, who knows, but it created a situation of chaos not helped get us back on serious track. And thus he must be mafia??? Why are you even voting for him? Why is he a better lynch than kita?
Keep in mind when I made my vote? I have more than 24 hours for a better lynch person to come along. At the time he was the scummiest option. As of now I see no reason to swap. Kita has done less scummy activity in my eyes than Jackal. If i had to swap my vote at this point I'd be analyzing 1 of the many people arguing with me.
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Actually, this must be it.
You are purposefully being stubborn to make yourself look suspicious to make scum go. "Oh hey, BC has half the town thinking he's scum. Let's leave him alone."
/joke
but seriously your only negative is that town will be stupid and misuse the information. That is not a good reason to not use the dt checks.
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So you're saying it hurts Town because Mafia will use his power to kill confirmed Towns. And yet you say we can't trust him so no one he says is green is a confirmed Town. Huh. You also said earlier that Townies should be most eager to get themselves checked:
Check the bolded part. In almost every case of someone asking or begging for a dt check they are town or covered role.
I guess you don't fall into that category.
Acting scummy and Anti Town is less likely to get you killed than being confirmed Town. Hmm.
On July 26 2011 03:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 02:50 Kurumi wrote:
Check BC because we are fucked if he is mafia. Check me and laugh. Whoever dt checks will laugh almost as hard as i cringed at my role.
You're so open to being checked here when you were in no real danger of being checked.
On July 26 2011 04:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 04:04 syllogism wrote:On July 26 2011 04:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On July 26 2011 03:56 redFF wrote:On July 26 2011 00:39 DropBear wrote:
Ok I may as well cop the penalty. Mafia now knows who shot youngminii and all his abilities so I have to come out and save him now. I made the Tim Roth role.
Supersoft is Tim Roth. He only gets one kill. His kill causes his alignment and role abilities to be PMd to everyone of the opposite alignment to him. I didn't get that PM so supersoft is now 100% confirmed to be town.
His other ability is an alignment check, which activates if you get into a 3 each quote convo with him i.e. you post, he quotes, you quote the quote until there is 3 each.
I would suggest forcing people to quote him. Not everyone at once though as it would shit up the thread something shocking. What was your penalty? Good job Supersoft, I didn't get a pm telling me tackster's alignment, was that a mistake?I'm still weary of Jackal. Behaviourally i'm not noticing anything that scummy though. I'm tired of Kurumi getting away from doing jack-shit every game and doing no analysis and just trolling so i'm voting him until something better comes up. kita-iirc he played this way early on in the first ptp and was town and a lot of people(mainly mafia) jumped on him for it to get an easy lynch, I suggest someone starts quoting supersoft though. i will do it if necesssary. I suggest no one quotes supersoft and no one votes for kurumi. Based on how Kurumi is playing, his power seems to require votes instead of fistbumps like palmar from last ptp. Supersoft's power we are told operates via quote levels. how about we don't give two people access to their powers? How about we kill jackal or, each player with an item asks if they can destroy it (as well harry breaks the wand, gets rid of the stone and only keeps the cloak in the books). Letting people run loose with powers when we have no actual confirmed alignment of them is just a bad move. Limit people from acting until they are verified. Supersoft just killed mafia and another person confirmed his role. Unless you think this is some absurd gambit by mafia and they are all 3 (supersoft,dropbear,tackster) red, how can you possibly argue against supersoft using his alignment checks? Is this some posting restriction because that makes little sense Super soft is likely not red as he killed a red, you are correct.
Confirm that supersoft is likely not red yet unwilling to let him use his check for some farfetched reasons.
We're lynching BC today folks.
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On July 26 2011 06:49 Curu wrote:So you're saying it hurts Town because Mafia will use his power to kill confirmed Towns. And yet you say we can't trust him so no one he says is green is a confirmed Town. Huh. You also said earlier that Townies should be most eager to get themselves checked: Show nested quote +Check the bolded part. In almost every case of someone asking or begging for a dt check they are town or covered role. I guess you don't fall into that category. Acting scummy and Anti Town is less likely to get you killed than being confirmed Town. Hmm. Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 03:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On July 26 2011 02:50 Kurumi wrote:
Check BC because we are fucked if he is mafia. Check me and laugh. Whoever dt checks will laugh almost as hard as i cringed at my role. You're so open to being checked here when you were in no real danger of being checked. Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 04:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On July 26 2011 04:04 syllogism wrote:On July 26 2011 04:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On July 26 2011 03:56 redFF wrote:On July 26 2011 00:39 DropBear wrote:
Ok I may as well cop the penalty. Mafia now knows who shot youngminii and all his abilities so I have to come out and save him now. I made the Tim Roth role.
Supersoft is Tim Roth. He only gets one kill. His kill causes his alignment and role abilities to be PMd to everyone of the opposite alignment to him. I didn't get that PM so supersoft is now 100% confirmed to be town.
His other ability is an alignment check, which activates if you get into a 3 each quote convo with him i.e. you post, he quotes, you quote the quote until there is 3 each.
I would suggest forcing people to quote him. Not everyone at once though as it would shit up the thread something shocking. What was your penalty? Good job Supersoft, I didn't get a pm telling me tackster's alignment, was that a mistake?I'm still weary of Jackal. Behaviourally i'm not noticing anything that scummy though. I'm tired of Kurumi getting away from doing jack-shit every game and doing no analysis and just trolling so i'm voting him until something better comes up. kita-iirc he played this way early on in the first ptp and was town and a lot of people(mainly mafia) jumped on him for it to get an easy lynch, I suggest someone starts quoting supersoft though. i will do it if necesssary. I suggest no one quotes supersoft and no one votes for kurumi. Based on how Kurumi is playing, his power seems to require votes instead of fistbumps like palmar from last ptp. Supersoft's power we are told operates via quote levels. how about we don't give two people access to their powers? How about we kill jackal or, each player with an item asks if they can destroy it (as well harry breaks the wand, gets rid of the stone and only keeps the cloak in the books). Letting people run loose with powers when we have no actual confirmed alignment of them is just a bad move. Limit people from acting until they are verified. Supersoft just killed mafia and another person confirmed his role. Unless you think this is some absurd gambit by mafia and they are all 3 (supersoft,dropbear,tackster) red, how can you possibly argue against supersoft using his alignment checks? Is this some posting restriction because that makes little sense Super soft is likely not red as he killed a red, you are correct. Confirm that supersoft is likely not red yet unwilling to let him use his check for some farfetched reasons. We're lynching BC today folks.
How about this curu. When I flip town you willingly submit to being lynched / vig shot. IF you are so sure in me you should easily be willing to die when you're wrong.
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Let me say this. There is no advantage in NOT using the check. He is most likely town and will most likely end up dead at night. He wants to check you BC, why don't you oblige?
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EPT
