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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:05 Lanaia wrote: Although he's strange, I think he's town. It's gut, most likely, but I feel strongly he's just stubborn town. He's giving me townvibes. I really can't explain it more than that. Hmm, okay. Who do you think is a good lynch then? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:02 Curu wrote: If I'm Town then I have no way to know you're red besides your scummy posting. Are you encouraging Townies to only push for lynches if they are 100% sure the person is red? Do you think I'm scum BC? I honestly haven't spent solid time analyzing you. I know from seeing your play in the past you make your cases against players on gut shots using meh reasoning and sometimes they net you a red sometimes they don't. However, everyone of my arguments has a singular point, and it is actually logical based on information from multiple games on TL. You could go read through some of them and maybe it would give you a greater understanding of why I am playing as I am. As for pushing for lynches. Yes, I honestly do believe you should only push for a lynch if you believe someone is red. Doing so because you think someone might be is horrible play. Even if you think they are red and they aren't shows you at least have convictions to stand behind the lynch, as in those cases you get suspected heavily for the bad lynch. If you are right you are a better target for reds and third parties. If you aren't willing to stand behind the lynch you want to start, you aren't actually sure of my guilt which would mean you would be starting a terrible bandwagon. | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:06 chaos13 wrote: Hmm, okay. Who do you think is a good lynch then? Kitaman or Drazerk. Drazerk is gut. Kita is a bit more. I read through his posts and found nothing that would make me think he is town at this point. Nothing appears more town-motivated than scum-motivated, if that makes sense. | ||
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
LURKER ROLE CALL! The following people have not been posting as much as I want them to: -Jackal58 -Nisani201 -Amber[Light] -Drazerk -ketomai -Mig -Varpulis Any of you there? | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
If you don't think I'm scum then there's no possible Pro Town reason for proposing your bet besides to shake pressure off yourself by making yourself appear willing to die. I know your thought process, I did this exact same thing to sandroba. Why are you so sure getting yourself checked by supersoft will get you killed? You yourself said that behavioral analysis rather than power is far more important, so by your logic scum would much rather kill the most effective scum hunters rather than someone who was "cleared' by a completely unreliable (in your words) power. You don't want supersoft to use his power because we can't rely on it, but you also don't want supersoft to use his power because it will confirm someone as Town for Mafia to kill? Your ideas are completely contradictory. I stand by my read that you are the best lynch today. If you really want to promote the atmosphere that Town should never try to lynch unless they are 100% sure the person is guilty, then we sit on our asses waiting for DTs to win the game for us (oh hey, but you don't want the confirmed DT to use his power either). Should we just no lynch every day then? | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
To reiterate: If jackal is town, ADVANTAGE: He gets to protect somebody. DISADVANTAGE: None. If Jackal is scum, ADVANTAGE: None. DISADVANTAGE: He has a chance to save his scum buddy. BUT think about it. What are the chances he correctly predicts who's getting targeted by the 3rd Party? That's if the 3rd Party happens to hit mafia. Town shouldn't be shooting on whims anyway. If we all agree to night vigi someone, we can take away the stone. This is only for night 1. I don't trust him, but if town allows him to live then I suggest we give him the protective ability. Right now the risks are very small if he's scum, and good payout if he's town. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:19 Curu wrote: Town can never be sure of your guilt. What I am sure of is you are the scummiest player thus far to me, so to me you have the highest chance of flipping red. That makes you the best lynch and that is why I am pushing for you. If you don't think I'm scum then there's no possible Pro Town reason for proposing your bet besides to shake pressure off yourself by making yourself appear willing to die. I know your thought process, I did this exact same thing to sandroba. Why are you so sure getting yourself checked by supersoft will get you killed? You yourself said that behavioral analysis rather than power is far more important, so by your logic scum would much rather kill the most effective scum hunters rather than someone who was "cleared' by a completely unreliable (in your words) power. You don't want supersoft to use his power because we can't rely on it, but you also don't want supersoft to use his power because it will confirm someone as Town for Mafia to kill? Your ideas are completely contradictory. I stand by my read that you are the best lynch today. If you really want to promote the atmosphere that Town should never try to lynch unless they are 100% sure the person is guilty, then we sit on our asses waiting for DTs to win the game for us (oh hey, but you don't want the confirmed DT to use his power either). Should we just no lynch every day then? My ideas aren't contradictory as I have never said I believe he is 1 alignment type. The only people who have knowledge about his alignment are mafia. So you say mafia are more likely going to shoot scum hunters. Dont you think if one of those players gets confirmed by a dt they are going to shoot them? If you answer with No then you need serious thinking done. He is unreliable for town as we don't know the legitimacy of any of his checks unless he dies / we have a confirmed dt vouch for him. As his checks would be public mafia get a far better read on all of his checks, as do sk's. As for ever being 100% of guilt? Yes you can actually. If over the course of a game someone has been clearly anti town, links to mulitple dead reds or the like You can be 100% certain they are guilty. Peoples play can clearly paint them red for logical reasons as theyw ere furthering mafia goals realizing it or not and get lynched and still flip town. You may not know for sure they are mafia but they can still be guilty of furthering their goals. As for no pro town reason for my bet? It tests your convictions. If you are so uneasy about believing your own instincts then why would you push the lynch anyway. Also, never assume you know my mind in how I think, I can easily say you don't. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:23 heist wrote: OK, I would really like everyone else's opinion on giving Jackal just the stone night 1 (assuming he isn't lynched). Stone gives him ability to protect 1 person at night. To reiterate: If jackal is town, ADVANTAGE: He gets to protect somebody. DISADVANTAGE: None. If Jackal is scum, ADVANTAGE: None. DISADVANTAGE: He has a chance to save his scum buddy. BUT think about it. What are the chances he correctly predicts who's getting targeted by the 3rd Party? That's if the 3rd Party happens to hit mafia. Town shouldn't be shooting on whims anyway. If we all agree to night vigi someone, we can take away the stone. This is only for night 1. I don't trust him, but if town allows him to live then I suggest we give him the protective ability. Right now the risks are very small if he's scum, and good payout if he's town. If hes scum you just made a scum medic. If hes town he gets to protect someone. These are If's. Until you know his alignment why would you advocate giving him anything? If you have the power to potentially deny a mafia or third party a power, why would you not do it? If he is town he has the ability to mason someone which is powerful as it is. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Also, you don't seem conviced Kita is scum. Would you oppose a aligment check on him? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:29 Curu wrote: Well he has to be one alignment type or the other. If Mafia is using his reads to hit confirmed Town, then that's our signal that supersoft is reliable. And we are using him to check the scummiest and most suspicious players. If Mafia wants to take them out, then so be it, they're the poorest targets for hits anyways and already the most unreliable/worst scumhunters. how is it a signal for him to be reliable. Red him confirms me as green, mafia shoots me for now being confirmed while keeping him alive longer. He then say confirms another big player and again says green and the guy dies. He checks a red says green red next day claims vet, or med save, etc... a confirmed vet scumhunter is far deadly to mafia than an unconfirmed one. Also the situation you gave again gives credit to SS to being reliable when it doesnt make him so, a forced role use does not mean legit user. Thats like saying because a mafia claims vig and you force him to shoot a red that makes him town, when it in fact just makes him a bitter resentful mafia who will stab you in the back at a moments notice. | ||
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
Curu, what would you think of lynching kitaman or Kurumi over BC? | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:32 sandroba wrote: BC, let's assume ss is scum. How does an aligment check benefits him? Also, you don't seem conviced Kita is scum. Would you oppose a aligment check on him? -_- they benefit him by A) giving info that regardless if you think it does or not, it helps "confirm" his legitimacy. It doesnt B) It lures town into false control of a role C) It sets up a slope of trusting someone we shouldn't trust D) It allows mafia to control general thoughts on rolechecks / lets them manipulate town as a whole There are more reasons but you should get the idea. An unconfirmed aligned dt's checks could be legit or not when he gives us the answers but if 1-2 of those checks turn up legit people will assume that dt is town when it does not mean that at all. There is far to much emphasis put on dt's and giving the mafia a potential tool to control town is terrible. As such, why would I want him to check anyone? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:34 Curu wrote: He doesn't choose who he's checking. We pick the targets for him out of the most suspect players. Oh, so now when he checks and fails to find reds for instance he is no longer responsible and all liablity that goes with his role is on someone else? Even better. | ||
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