[GG] Red Army Mafia

We also discovered the body of redtooth lying in the mud today. After deserting the army, he apparently attempted to go to a local tavern for a shot of vodka. Unfortunately for him, but fortunately for the people’s justice, some Ukrainians had other ideas and blew out his brains, as well as stripping him naked. All that was left on him were a pair of pennies on top of his eyelids.

On July 29 2009 17:37 Ace wrote:
ok there are a few reasons I wouldn't vote for you:

1.) You say you're so sure you'd be dead tomorrow - how? Thats just really out of the blue bs as no one knows you and you haven't posted anything that could get you killed at the moment.

2.) You have some grand plan - great. If you were so sure you'd be dead why would you hide it? If the plan is really that good why not tell us, get yourself elected and live a bit longer? Some of us aren't stupid enough to elect some guy and then wait to hear his plan - tell us now or give up hope of being elected.

3.) Why would an NKVD Agent want to disguise them self as Ukrainian? That would lead to them getting killed if they got role checked. I'm hoping they really aren't that bad. Sure they could take the chance a Mafia checks them and hey they are in the Mafia circle - but when their kills don't sync up that same night what do you think happens? :/

4.) For someone who "knows a lot of shit and has a quick mind" you've already made a huge mistake. You propose that you will lynch at random. Oh really? So instead of trying to glean more information by questioning suspects you'd rather spin the wheel and see who it lands on? Oh how is that different that a townie that randomly votes for whomever they feel like? Why would we want you as Field Marshal? You'd be pretty useless.

5.) Lastly, going with the someone who has a quick mind idea...why would you spread your votes out to townies? You don't know if they are Ukrainian scum or not so how will you know they are using their votes with pro-town(Army) benefits in mind? You don't because even if you were an NKVD Agent I doubt you'd investigate all 3 of them in time to know. Hence, it's a bad idea to do so.

On July 29 2009 23:13 Shikyo wrote:

Let us know the names of all the cheaters =)

Hmmm and it might actually this time around be beneficial for some townies to act like they were mafia. What an interesting game.

If he is an NKVD Agent what makes you think he will live 2 days to use up all his rolechecks?

Once again let's assume our enemies aren't stupid. How is an NKVD Agent going to get into the Rebel organization?

On July 30 2009 05:09 Ace wrote:


no

On July 30 2009 05:23 Ace wrote:
yep. Between your math that makes no sense because it works on some retarded assumptions like every NKVD agent getting lucky with checks, and information not spreading really fast (which it does) and the fact you don't know how many roles are present - to this. Trying to convince NKVD agents to go undercover when they'd have a hell of a time convincing the town their target is a rebel and they'd have to find the dumbest Ukrainian around to let them in AND survive.

This is why you won't be elected. You can't even think through the most basic of scenarios.

On July 30 2009 05:33 Ace wrote:
of course the NKVD agent won't lie about the results of his role check.

But if all of them are undercover and an NKVD agent checks another NKVD agent the guy flips Rebel. So now we are about to lynch 2 NKVD Agents.

Of course the same exact thing happens if an NKVD Agent RCs a Rebel. Of course it's even worse this time because the NKVD Agent will be killed immediately assuming the Ukrainians aren't stupid. They don't have to RC him right away - just ask him who he killed previously and who he will kill the next night.

In both situations the NKVD agent loses or everyone has an option to lie that takes even more time to disprove. No one has yet to answer how you sort through the liars because there is the case that both people are telling the truth, both are innocent but since both of them went undercover they both appear guilty. Ukrainians win.

On July 30 2009 05:49 Falcynn wrote:
I wish I could say something here to help argue why having NKVD agents pose as Ukrainians is a bad idea...but I think Ace has pretty much covered all of the reasons. Probably the only advantage I can see is that the threat of the detectives doing this will cause the Ukrainians to hesitate in contacting each other after a successful role check. Considering the fact that the town already has a pretty big advantage, doing this can arguably be worth the detectives time as it stalls any form of organization between the Ukrainians.

However, I think anyone who thinks that the detectives can easily infiltrate a decently sized portion of the network are seriously underestimating how smart these guys can be. Just the threat of DTs posing as Ukrainians is going to make them a hell of a lot more cautious in terms of who they trust. Verifying someone as Ukrainian is, as Ace mentioned, as easy as asking them who they killed the previous night or who they'll kill the next night. The detective would have to be incredibly lucky to get either of these questions correct, and if he doesn't he'll be killed. Basically he'll go through all of this work to get just a single Ukrainian, which can easily be done without all of this pretending.

In short, I'm in favor of NKVD posing as Ukrainian, but I'm heavily against this idea of them trying to infiltrate the network as it'll just be a waste of time and effort on their part imo.

On July 30 2009 05:53 Ace wrote:



come on L, let's be serious here. In fact assume I'm a Ukrainian Rebel and you're an NKVD agent. do you REALLY think you'd ever successfully convince me you really are a Rebel and that you could get me to give up information about what I know and then get me lynched?

The plan only works assuming our enemies are completely fucking stupid. I'm not playing the game based on that because it's an epic fail. Watch the NKVD agents all try it and all die. I guarantee it if the Rebels are even half competent.

On July 30 2009 06:00 Ace wrote:


Impossible to call. No idea how the NKVD agents individually select who they want to Role Check. you can't get IN the group - that's the problem. Once again think of it basically like this:

Ace - NKVD Agent
Scamp - Ukrainian Rebel

Ace - o hai scamp, I checked you out. You're Rebel, so am I! <3
Scamp - o ok. cool. This is L and coltrane, their rebels too. Sup?
Ace - lol newbs I'm an Agent. GG.

Do you really think you'd do that?

or is it more like this:

Ace -o hai scamp, I checked you out. You're Rebel, so am I! <3
Scamp - that's nice hoe. Who did you kill last night?
Ace - oh I killed...um...Foolishness. (I have no idea who really did so I'm guessing)
Scamp(who knows the truth because he knows who killed Foolishness) - o ok. Well I can't trust you yet so who are you going to kill tomorrow night?
Ace - um...I'll kill LucasWoj!
Scamp - ok well when Lucas shows up dead I'll let you know!

2 problems already fucks the Agent over:
I die immediately because Scamp knows the truth and kills me.
I survive till the next day but Lucas doesn't die unless I get super lucky. If he doesn't I'm killed. The best I could do is roleclaim to the town that I'm an NKVD agent and found Scamp.
Scamp of course says he's also an NKVD Agent and was undercover also.

How do you sort through the liars? Even worse - what if Scamp really is an NKVD agent.

Come on, I know what I'm talking about here. You guys are assuming the Rebels are so dumb as not to ask 2 simple questions which would destroy any NKVD agent without a lot of information ahead of time.

On July 30 2009 06:19 So no fek wrote:
There's certainly risks in the NKVD disguising themselves as rebels, however, I think that's the entire point of their role and the rebels not knowing each other. To throw a wrench into things. The ability to disguise yourself as a townie/another blue is nearly worthless. If you're rolechecked by an NKVD, you're safe to kill - the only reason they wouldn't kill you is if you disguised yourself as a townie, and they'd rather leave a townie alive and look for a red to kill - other than that, the only benefit of the ability is to disguise yourself as blue, and cause as much havoc as you possibly can.

On July 30 2009 07:02 Ace wrote:
L when you can prove that NKVD/NKVD checks with both being possible Rebels can be avoided and the town can sift through the lies then you can discuss a plan with me. As of now all of you are acting on so many assumptions that are easily crushed by any competent Rebel that it's laughable. I'm kind of wishing I was a Rebel now so I could prove to you guys how to catch an undercover Agent.