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[Translation] SPOILER: Jaedong vs. Bisu

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-09 03:40:35
June 09 2009 03:33 GMT
#1
Translated from http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=free&wr_id=818707.

This was such a baller article I couldn't help but share it. And behold -- it's the same author who wrote the "History of Terran vs. Zerg" that I translated a while back!

So Bisu uses a probe scout to check the Spire timing and gets a good start.

Then Jaedong cancels the Spire.

Mistake? Fake? Mind games?

A mistake no doubt. If Jaedong really canceled on purpose, why? There's nothing to be gained by canceling the Spire.

This case is completely different from when Boxer used to cancel his Starport to put down an extra Factory. Starting off low-econ, to build a 200/100 Factory one needs to cancel something like a Starport. However, a rich 3-base Zerg canceling a long-build time Spire to put down a 100/50 Hydra den is a massive loss.

Hydra den + Spire are cards the Zerg can put forth in mind games. The actual main characters of this ploy being the unidentified larvae. Thus, the more buildings, the more cards you have, the better.

Canceling the Spire yields no benefit to Jaedong. That it wasn't on purpose is highly likely, and even if it was, he would have thought 'Why the hell did I just do that?' and regretted his decision.

Anyway, as a result, Bisu takes 4 overlords.

Losing many overlords leads invariably to big trouble. It is conceivable to have made 3 extra overlords for safety, but having 4 extra overlords is mineral waste.

At a time when he should have massed drones and hydras, he is supply stuck and unable to take advantage of the explosive macro-style of 5 hatch hydra.

Then he scouts with his scourge... and sees, some dragoons?

The only build that fits making more than a couple dragoons is the goon+templar build. There's really only two choices -- either use mass goons or a few goons. That's because mixing range-unupgraded goons with speedlots just kills the mobility of the speedlots.

The proper response to goon-temp? Muta-hydra.

The build that came out early 2008, the goon-temp build. Afterwards, Much used it to great success. Recently, Jangbi has been reviving it.

If I recall correctly, this build came out first in Arena MSL Jaedong vs. Bisu, on Othello. As soon as it was introduced, it was destroyed, as coincidentally Jaedong happened to use fast mutas which completely eat up the goon-temp build.

It's hard to defend temps with fewer than a control group of goons. Goons do explosive damage and tickle mutalisks. After picking off temps, pure goon is supper time for hydraling. As a result, Much mixed in Dark Archons to counter, but the build never recovered from its weakness against sudden counter mutas.

Bisu knows this. After scouting with Corsairs, he realizes something is up. In particular, he thinks, 'Even if it's not sudden mutas and mass hydras, his army is so puny I can defend without temps', and retreats his temps behind his cannon line. Consequently, he prevents muta sniping and templar terror. He adds an expo.

This moment, the game is already in favor of toss 7:3. No, toss won. Neo sauron - a hydra-based build - relies on superior econ. The moment the econ superiority is lost, there is no way to block the Protoss han-bang. Even goonlot without temps would roll. That is the hydralisks' demise.

The last possible resort card are Lurkers. Just survive with mass Lurkers. Resist and secure land, tech to Hive and doom drop the Protoss main with cracklings and win with guerilla war tactics.

But Bisu has the upper hand. He leisurely secured 5 and 6. He deals with the Lurker contain endlessly, but he is at a situation where even failing to deal with the contain is not enough to disadvantage him. Then he attempts a break out.

Even had this break out not worked, Jaedong poured too much gas into defending 12 o'clock with Lurkers. About 2 control groups? Thus, not attaining the goal of 'breaking through 12 o'clock' was okay because 'reducing Jaedong's army' was also a worthy goal.

Nonetheless, the fury of Bisu breaks through 12 o'clock and the game ends there.
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32277 Posts
June 09 2009 03:36 GMT
#2
Thanks, grabbing cocoa and cookie to read : ]
Moderator<:3-/-<
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
June 09 2009 03:43 GMT
#3
Hey Stryker! What are you doing nowadays? I hope Starcraft at MIT can continue without you.
starleague.mit.edu
LaXerCannon
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada558 Posts
June 09 2009 03:45 GMT
#4
Great read d(- -d)
Just keep swimming
Exteray
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1094 Posts
June 09 2009 04:07 GMT
#5
Very informative post!
Sigrun
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1655 Posts
June 09 2009 04:13 GMT
#6
Thanks a lot!
Graphics
mucker
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1120 Posts
June 09 2009 04:21 GMT
#7
Thanks!

what's han-bang?
It's supposed to be automatic but actually you have to press this button.
251
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1401 Posts
June 09 2009 04:28 GMT
#8
that was great, pretty much near perfect analysis of the match. Here's hoping we see better from Jaedong against Bisu in the future
"If you can chill..........then chill."
[AhunGrY]MelOn
Profile Joined November 2008
United States357 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-09 04:31:12
June 09 2009 04:28 GMT
#9
han-bang in korean means something like "one blow"
the basic theory in pvz is that p eventually masses up a huge ball of stuff that can own everything that the zerg has, once it gets big enough, (called the han bang army) while z tries to keep the size of that han bang army down / damage protoss economy using the zerg's superior production (edit: and mobility)
i think that's how koreans think of the matchup (same applies to tvp, where t has the han bang army)
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66356 Posts
June 09 2009 04:29 GMT
#10
On June 09 2009 13:21 mucker wrote:
Thanks!

what's han-bang?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93316
POGGERS
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
June 09 2009 04:34 GMT
#11
Very good read!!

That spire cancel was crucial!!

But do you think he would have been able to take down HT's and engage that goon army if he got those mutas out earlier and saved those overlords?
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
June 09 2009 04:42 GMT
#12
makes me think of a hidden spires : x
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
June 09 2009 05:05 GMT
#13
Thanks for the translation! I hope JD doesn't fuck up next time ^^
aeonshifter
Profile Joined April 2009
United States123 Posts
June 09 2009 05:10 GMT
#14
Thanks for this.

I was really puzzled by this when I watched the game live.
Marine50
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia1764 Posts
June 09 2009 05:13 GMT
#15
Cheers man.

Such a shame that this happened. Jaedong is so much better than bisu

I just don't understand how he could have accidentally canceled it. 'Esc' key is so out of the way on the keyboard and its hard to believe he would have accidentally clicked on the cancel button.
IRIS FIGHTING!!!
[AhunGrY]MelOn
Profile Joined November 2008
United States357 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-09 05:28:05
June 09 2009 05:24 GMT
#16
On June 09 2009 13:29 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2009 13:21 mucker wrote:
Thanks!

what's han-bang?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93316

actually, i think the description on that page is slightly off
like in this post, bisu was wayyyyyy ahead, yet the word han-bang is still used
edit: i think what you were thinking of in that description is something from a situation like:

a zerg does a lot of damage to p economy (maybe kind of late into the game) but still lets p macro up a huge army (the han-bang army i described in my previous post), so that p still has a chance to win by destroying shit with the army in a last effort

i dont think a timed attack is associated with the word han-bang, but i might be forgetting something
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6180 Posts
June 09 2009 05:27 GMT
#17
why not just ask jaedong himself.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
June 09 2009 05:31 GMT
#18
On June 09 2009 14:24 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2009 13:29 konadora wrote:
On June 09 2009 13:21 mucker wrote:
Thanks!

what's han-bang?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93316

actually, i think the description on that page is slightly off
like in this post, bisu was wayyyyyy ahead, yet the word han-bang is still used
edit: i think what you were thinking of in that description is something from a situation like:

a zerg does a lot of damage to p economy (maybe kind of late into the game) but still lets p macro up a huge army (the han-bang army i described in my previous post), so that p still has a chance to win by destroying shit with the army in a last effort

i dont think a timed attack is associated with the word han-bang, but i might be forgetting something

Hoejja in the game he won vs Free referred to Free's first standard midgame army as a hanbang. So they might be using different definitions.
Jaedong
iloveHieu
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1919 Posts
June 09 2009 05:44 GMT
#19
On June 09 2009 14:27 Piste wrote:
why not just ask jaedong himself.


I think it's a sensitive issue! who would ask that and there's no guarantee Jaedong will respond honestly or even respond at all..

yo yo sweet analysis, me want moreeee
Xellos <3
SilentNoodle
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Australia290 Posts
June 09 2009 05:51 GMT
#20
nice read, thanks
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