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Cracker taken hostage

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Ryot
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada316 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-10 23:58:07
July 10 2008 19:28 GMT
#1
http://www.wftv.com/news/16798008/detail.html

+ Show Spoiler +
Church officials say UCF Student Senator Webster Cook was disruptive and disrespectful when he attended Mass held on campus Sunday June 29. It was during that Mass where Cook admits he obtained the Eucharist.

The Eucharist is a small bread wafer blessed by a priest. According to Catholics, the wafer becomes the Body of Christ once blessed and is to be consumed immediately after a minister passes it out to churchgoers.

Cook claims he planned to consume it, but first wanted to show it to a fellow student senator he brought to Mass who was curious about the Catholic faith.

"When I received the Eucharist, my intention was to bring it back to my seat to show him," Cook said. "I took about three steps from the woman distributing the Eucharist and someone grabbed the inside of my elbow and blocked the path in front of me. At that point I put it in my mouth so they'd leave me alone and I went back to my seat and I removed it from my mouth."

A church leader was watching, confronted Cook and tried to recover the sacred bread. Cook said she crossed the line and that's why he brought it home with him.

"She came up behind me, grabbed my wrist with her right hand, with her left hand grabbed my fingers and was trying to pry them open to get the Eucharist out of my hand," Cook said, adding she wouldn't immediately take her hands off him despite several requests.

Diocese of Orlando spokeswoman Carol Brinati said she was not aware of anyone touching Cook. She released a statement Thursday: "... a Catholic Campus Ministry student representative filed a complaint with the Student Union regarding the behavior of the two young men. A Student Government Representative called Catholic Campus Ministry to apologize for this disruption."

Cook filed an official abuse complaint with UCF's student conduct court regarding the alleged physical force. Following that complaint, Brinati said church members filed their own official complaints of disruptive conduct. Punishment for either offense could result in suspension or expulsion.

"The church feels that I'm the problem here," Cook said. "The problem is actually that this is a publicly-funded religious institution. Through student government here, we fund them through an activity and service, so they're receiving student money."

Cook is upset more than $40,000 in student fees have been allocated to support religious organizations on campus for the 2008-2009 school year, according to student government records. He denied he is holding the Eucharist hostage to protest that support.

Regardless of the reason, the Diocese says its main concern is to get the Eucharist back so it can be taken care of properly and with respect. Cook has been keeping the Eucharist stored in a plastic bag since last Sunday.

"It is hurtful," said Father Migeul Gonzalez with the Diocese. "Imagine if they kidnapped somebody and you make a plea for that individual to please return that loved one to the family."

Gonzalez said the Diocese is willing to meet with Cook and help him understand the importance of the Eucharist in hopes of him returning it. The Diocese is dispatching a nun to UCF's campus to oversee the next mass, protect the Eucharist and in hopes Cook will return it.

Cook said he'd consider returning the Eucharist if he gets an apology and a meeting with the Bishop's office to discuss the Diocese's policy on physical force.

Gonzalez said intentionally abusing the Eucharist is classified as a mortal sin in the Catholic church, the most severe possible. If it's not returned, the community of faith will have to ask for forgiveness.

"We have to make acts of reparation," Gonzalez said. "The whole community is going to turn to prayer. We'll ask the Lord for pardon, forgiveness, peace, not only for the whole community affected by it, but also for [Cook], we offer prayers for him as well."

Copyright 2008 by wftv.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


Here's another article on the same story:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=912931E6387D06E86603288C86CA66A1?contentId=6932236&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

+ Show Spoiler +
By Cheryl Getuiza
FOX 35 NEWS

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) --A UCF student claims he’s getting death threats for messing with something sacred.


Webster Cook says he smuggled a Eucharist, a small bread wafer that to Catholics symbolic of the Body of Christ after a priest blesses it, out of mass, didn’t eat it as he was supposed to do, but instead walked with it.

Catholics worldwide became furious.

Webster’s friend, who didn’t want to show his face, said he took the Eucharist, to show him what it meant to Catholics.

Webster gave the wafer back, but the Catholic League, a national watchdog organization for Catholic rights claims that is not enough.

“We don’t know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was,” said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. “However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it.”

We just expect the University to take this seriously,” she added “To send a message to not just Mr. Cook but the whole community that this kind of really complete sacrilege will not be tolerated.”

Webster just wants all of this to go away. Especially now that he feels his life is in danger.

University officials said, that as for right now, Webster Cook is not in trouble. If anyone or any group wants to file a formal complaint with the University through the student judicial system, they can.

It that happens, Webster will go through a hearing either in front of an administrative panel or a panel of his peers.


Discuss.
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
July 10 2008 19:30 GMT
#2
It's my best friend's birthday today, and I'm glad I'll have something hilarious to bring up tonight when we're drinking
good vibes only
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-10 19:32:14
July 10 2008 19:31 GMT
#3
i'm curious to hear your opinions on the matter.



No, no you're not. This will turn into a religion bashing thread asap. This is of course an absurd story that happened in a backwater Florida town. We can laugh but really this is going nowhere. I love how you alluded to the age old claim that Catholics are canibals and whether or not the cracker has symbolic importance

sigh
Ryot
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada316 Posts
July 10 2008 19:34 GMT
#4
Can you explain to me the cracker-eating thing then? I don't know much about Catholicism so obviously to an outsider it seems weird.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
July 10 2008 19:36 GMT
#5
On July 11 2008 04:31 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
i'm curious to hear your opinions on the matter.



No, no you're not.


way 2 go incontrol u called his bluff!!~1
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
RoC)Ninjah
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States238 Posts
July 10 2008 19:39 GMT
#6
I thought it was gunna be a racist thread.

This is even better though.

“However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it.”
LOL
Much will win a title before his hair turns grey.
MiniRoman
Profile Blog Joined September 2003
Canada3953 Posts
July 10 2008 19:41 GMT
#7
On July 11 2008 04:31 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
i'm curious to hear your opinions on the matter.



No, no you're not. This will turn into a religion bashing thread asap. This is of course an absurd story that happened in a backwater Florida town. We can laugh but really this is going nowhere. I love how you alluded to the age old claim that Catholics are canibals and whether or not the cracker has symbolic importance

sigh


Or he is and your just bitchy.


Obviously they are taking it too seriously but religious suicide bombers do exist in this world so does it really surprise you? I don't know why they care so much about an individual "host" but really you can only get them from a church, they are kept in a golden tabernacle, each and everyone of them is blessed by a person of God. In religion is this the biggest deal you can get.

Why is it a big deal to burn a flag, but not a tablecloth? It's just fabric right? Or is it what that fabric represents. Anyone care to enlighten me? INCCCC?
Nak Allstar.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
July 10 2008 19:42 GMT
#8
On July 11 2008 04:34 Ryot wrote:
Can you explain to me the cracker-eating thing then? I don't know much about Catholicism so obviously to an outsider it seems weird.


When Jesus had his last supper he said to those gathered "take this all of you and eat from it, for it is my body..." He goes on to say that it is blessed and holds great significance. Catholics recreate that ceremony.

It is a very important and sacred ceremony for Catholics. People often call it canabilism. But Catholics have survived pope, pedo and canabilism jokes I think we will survive a lunatic diocese making a big deal over nothing.
Doctorasul
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Romania1145 Posts
July 10 2008 19:45 GMT
#9
There's nothing wrong with ridiculing idiots like these. In fact, it's necessary; that's what you do in a civilized society to keep the really dumb ideas from becoming mainstream and respected.
"I believe in Spinoza's god who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
July 10 2008 19:45 GMT
#10
On July 11 2008 04:42 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2008 04:34 Ryot wrote:
Can you explain to me the cracker-eating thing then? I don't know much about Catholicism so obviously to an outsider it seems weird.


When Jesus had his last supper he said to those gathered "take this all of you and eat from it, for it is my body..." He goes on to say that it is blessed and holds great significance. Catholics recreate that ceremony.

It is a very important and sacred ceremony for Catholics. People often call it canabilism. But Catholics have survived pope, pedo and canabilism jokes I think we will survive a lunatic diocese making a big deal over nothing.


The people that call it cannibalism must be completely retarded. I understand the spiritual significance of it being a part of Christ's body, but it's purely spiritual.

Couldn't the guy who "stole" the cracker have just asked his friend to come up with him and..observe..or whatever his friend was there to do? It would have avoided a whole lot of trouble.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
useLess
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4781 Posts
July 10 2008 19:46 GMT
#11
well, i was expecting a cracker as in a white kid, but now im sorely disappointed. crackers and religion, thats not what im here for.
Moonlight Shadow
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
July 10 2008 19:46 GMT
#12
On July 11 2008 04:41 MiniRoman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2008 04:31 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
i'm curious to hear your opinions on the matter.



No, no you're not. This will turn into a religion bashing thread asap. This is of course an absurd story that happened in a backwater Florida town. We can laugh but really this is going nowhere. I love how you alluded to the age old claim that Catholics are canibals and whether or not the cracker has symbolic importance

sigh


Or he is and your just bitchy.


Obviously they are taking it too seriously but religious suicide bombers do exist in this world so does it really surprise you? I don't know why they care so much about an individual "host" but really you can only get them from a church, they are kept in a golden tabernacle, each and everyone of them is blessed by a person of God. In religion is this the biggest deal you can get.

Why is it a big deal to burn a flag, but not a tablecloth? It's just fabric right? Or is it what that fabric represents. Anyone care to enlighten me? INCCCC?


*you're

No, I am not "bitchy." Nothing in my post was bitchy and you asserting as much is rather annoying. It'd be like me generalizing your post as "flamingly homoerotic" when it probably wasn't... just an annoying accusation.

Comparing this news report you probably didn't read to suicide bombers is laughable. I won't really go any further with that. Not all religious threads need to be equated to the very most extreme example of religious "importance" (zealots that kill people). And you are making an epic point at the conclusion honestly.. I think the idea of symbolism deserves much discussion. Really I do. I think we should discuss such deep topics like why does a four leaf clover hold so much respect in Ireland? Or why is it we take our hats off during the national anthem.. wow.. the possibilities.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
July 10 2008 19:47 GMT
#13
On July 11 2008 04:31 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
i'm curious to hear your opinions on the matter.



No, no you're not. This will turn into a religion bashing thread asap. This is of course an absurd story that happened in a backwater Florida town. We can laugh but really this is going nowhere. I love how you alluded to the age old claim that Catholics are canibals and whether or not the cracker has symbolic importance

sigh


here's some good fellow making a thread that features a non biased third party account of a religion related news event which is on its way to yield fruitful theological discussions about the metaphysics of christianity before you shot him down.
Ryot
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada316 Posts
July 10 2008 19:47 GMT
#14
Hmm alright but do you think it was bad that he didn't eat it? From what I understand he didn't throw it on the ground and stomp on it, he just kept it and decided not to eat it.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-10 19:49:10
July 10 2008 19:48 GMT
#15
On July 11 2008 04:28 Ryot wrote:
Personally I think the Church is taking this too seriously. Now I know these crackers have symbolic importance, but then I wonder, why eat them? If it's the body of Christ, does that not represent cannibalism? And symbolism aside, it is after all, just a cracker.

I'm curious to hear your opinions on the matter.


For Catholics, there is neither any symbolism or physical change involved.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7447 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-10 19:52:34
July 10 2008 19:49 GMT
#16
On July 11 2008 04:34 Ryot wrote:
Can you explain to me the cracker-eating thing then? I don't know much about Catholicism so obviously to an outsider it seems weird.

it's suppose to be symbolic of how Jesus died for our sins. the cracker symbolizes His body he gave for us. Some people think the cracker will literally become Jesus's body?, but I just think its just symbolism in remembrance of His sacrifice. There is also juice which symbolizes the blood He shed for us. I'm not Catholic, so I don't know exactly how they view it.

edit: oops, didn't see Inc's post, oh well.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
July 10 2008 19:49 GMT
#17
ryot, interesting thread. This piece of news has deepened by knowledge of christianity and their religious practices. I shall keep this thread in mind next time I debate politely with a christian over their theological views. "oh yea? well your church got mad at a kid taking a cracker home, true story man"
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
July 10 2008 19:51 GMT
#18
On July 11 2008 04:48 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2008 04:28 Ryot wrote:
Personally I think the Church is taking this too seriously. Now I know these crackers have symbolic importance, but then I wonder, why eat them? If it's the body of Christ, does that not represent cannibalism? And symbolism aside, it is after all, just a cracker.

I'm curious to hear your opinions on the matter.


For Catholics, there is neither any symbolism or physical change involved.


What do you mean? Could you elaborate on your thinking please?
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
July 10 2008 19:52 GMT
#19
On July 11 2008 04:51 SnowFantasy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2008 04:48 Mindcrime wrote:
On July 11 2008 04:28 Ryot wrote:
Personally I think the Church is taking this too seriously. Now I know these crackers have symbolic importance, but then I wonder, why eat them? If it's the body of Christ, does that not represent cannibalism? And symbolism aside, it is after all, just a cracker.

I'm curious to hear your opinions on the matter.


For Catholics, there is neither any symbolism or physical change involved.


What do you mean? Could you elaborate on your thinking please?


I can't really. My understanding of transubstantiation is not very good. You had best ask a Catholic who knows his or her faith.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Doctorasul
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Romania1145 Posts
July 10 2008 19:57 GMT
#20
Here's PZ Meyers' take on it. (his blog)

+ Show Spoiler +
IT'S A GODDAMNED CRACKER!

There are days when it is agony to read the news, because people are so goddamned stupid. Petty and stupid. Hateful and stupid. Just plain stupid. And nothing makes them stupider than religion.

Here's a story that will destroy your hopes for a reasonable humanity.

Webster Cook says he smuggled a Eucharist, a small bread wafer that to Catholics symbolic of the Body of Christ after a priest blesses it, out of mass, didn't eat it as he was supposed to do, but instead walked with it.


This isn't the stupid part yet. He walked off with a cracker that was put in his mouth, and people in the church fought with him to get it back. It is just a cracker!

Catholics worldwide became furious.

Would you believe this isn't hyperbole? People around the world are actually extremely angry about this — Webster Cook has been sent death threats over his cracker. Those are just kooks, you might say, but here is the considered, measured response of the local diocese:

"We don't know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was," said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. "However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it."

We just expect the University to take this seriously," she added "To send a message to not just Mr. Cook but the whole community that this kind of really complete sacrilege will not be tolerated."


Wait, what? Holding a cracker hostage is now a hate crime? The murder of Matthew Shephard was a hate crime. The murder of James Byrd Jr. was a hate crime. This is a goddamned cracker. Can you possibly diminish the abuse of real human beings any further?

Well, you could have a priest compare this event to a kidnapping.

"It is hurtful," said Father Migeul Gonzalez with the Diocese. "Imagine if they kidnapped somebody and you make a plea for that individual to please return that loved one to the family."

Gonzalez said the Diocese is willing to meet with Cook and help him understand the importance of the Eucharist in hopes of him returning it. The Diocese is dispatching a nun to UCF's campus to oversee the next mass, protect the Eucharist and in hopes Cook will return it.


I like the idea of sending a scary nun to guard the ceremony at the next mass. But even better…let's send Webster Cook to hell!

Gonzalez said intentionally abusing the Eucharist is classified as a mortal sin in the Catholic church, the most severe possible. If it's not returned, the community of faith will have to ask for forgiveness.

"We have to make acts of reparation," Gonzalez said. "The whole community is going to turn to prayer. We'll ask the Lord for pardon, forgiveness, peace, not only for the whole community affected by it, but also for [Cook], we offer prayers for him as well."

Get some perspective, man. IT'S A CRACKER.

And of course, Bill Donohue is outraged (I know, Donohue is going to die of apoplexy someday when a gnat violates his oatmeal, so this isn't saying much).

For a student to disrupt Mass by taking the Body of Christ hostage--regardless of the alleged nature of his grievance--is beyond hate speech. That is why the UCF administration needs to act swiftly and decisively in seeing that justice is done. All options should be on the table, including expulsion.


Oh, beyond hate speech. Where does this fit on the Shoah scale, Bill? It shouldn't even register, but here is Wild-Eyed Bill the Offended calling for the expulsion of a student…for not swallowing a cracker.

Would you believe that the mealy-mouthed president of the university, John Hitt, is avoiding defending his student is instead playing up the importance of the Catholic church to the university? Of course you would. That's what university presidents do. Bugger the students, keep the donors and the state reps happy.

Unfortunately, Webster Cook has now returned the cracker. Why?

Webster just wants all of this to go away. Especially now that he feels his life is in danger.


That's right. Crazy Christian fanatics right here in our own country have been threatening to kill a young man over a cracker. This is insane. These people are demented fuckwits. And Cook is not out of the fire yet — that Fox News story ends with an open incitement to cause him further misery.

University officials said, that as for right now, Webster Cook is not in trouble. If anyone or any group wants to file a formal complaint with the University through the student judicial system, they can. If that happens, Webster will go through a hearing either in front of an administrative panel or a panel of his peers.


Got that? If you don't like what Webster Cook did, all you have to do is complain to the university, and they will do the dirty work for you of making his college experience miserable. And don't assume the university would support Cook; the college is now having armed university police officers standing guard during mass.

I find this all utterly unbelievable. It's like Dark Age superstition and malice, all thriving with the endorsement of secular institutions here in 21st century America. It is a culture of deluded lunatics calling the shots and making human beings dance to their mythical bunkum.

So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart. If you can smuggle some out from under the armed guards and grim nuns hovering over your local communion ceremony, just write to me and I'll send you my home address.

Just wait. Now there'll be a team of Jesuits assigned to rifle through my mail every day.
"I believe in Spinoza's god who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein
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