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SnowFantasy
4173 Posts
On July 11 2008 04:52 Mindcrime wrote: I can't really. My understanding of transubstantiation is not very good. You had best ask a Catholic who knows his or her faith. Ok well in short, Catholics believe there is a physical change involved. The bread and wine is changed to the body/blood of Christ.  | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32130 Posts
Either way, this is pretty damn funny. Maybe a little insensitive of him to take it out, but you don't randomly try to grab someone you don't know lol. I'd do the same thing as him and turn it into a big shit show. | ||
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On July 11 2008 04:34 Ryot wrote: Can you explain to me the cracker-eating thing then? I don't know much about Catholicism so obviously to an outsider it seems weird. Catholics all have their own individual interpretations of the "cracker-eating thing". A few nutjobs believe it literally becomes part of the body of Christ (after it's been blessed, etc.). Many Catholics will likely interpret eating "the body of Christ" symbolically, each with their own idea of what exactly it symbolizes (so you'll have to ask them yourself if you want to know how they view it). And then you have a whole spectrum from people who take it very seriously and view the blessed wafer as a very sacred thing, to people who see it as just a wafer. There's also a range of people from those who will get some spiritual feeling when they consume the wafer, to those who won't feel any different. Many other Catholics just see it as a regular part of Mass (the ceremony) and don't think twice about it. I'm not an expert on Catholicism or anything, but I don't think you have to be to predict how people will feel about this kind of thing. | ||
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SnowFantasy
4173 Posts
And to Bill307 Catholics shouldn't have their own opinion on it because the Catholic church says that upon consecration it is physically changed from bread/whine to body and blood. | ||
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
I used to be a Catholic and I have to agree its very ridiculous that people are making such a big deal out of it. | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
The Holy Communion (maybe indicated by the "holy" in front of it) is among the most holy rites in the Catholic religion. To take the cracker and not eat it is disrespecting that rite and the religion itself. Holding it "hostage" is infantile and extremely disrespectful | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On July 11 2008 04:34 Ryot wrote: Can you explain to me the cracker-eating thing then? I don't know much about Catholicism so obviously to an outsider it seems weird. and then you and make a thread about catholicism and even go as far to suggest your own theories on something you know nothing about eh ill just leave it at conflict of philosophies and logical thinking <.< it's really disrespectful, from what i read but u know the media... always nit picking little things and inflating it, there's probably some fault on both sides... and i don't see why a compromise/ solution cant be resolved really <_<.. | ||
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Ryot
Canada316 Posts
But anyways, I have to admit my initial views on what communion was were ignorant. I understand it a bit better, but I still think this is way too big a deal over what transpired. Also the death threats are certainly ridiculous and give any sane people in the Catholic church a very bad rep. | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On July 11 2008 05:01 SnowFantasy wrote: And to Bill307 Catholics shouldn't have their own opinion on it because the Catholic church says that upon consecration it is physically changed from bread/whine to body and blood. I used to be a Catholic (maybe I still am "technically") and believe me, almost no other Catholics I met actually believed that. Some people viewed it symbolically while others never thought twice about it. | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
If you try to wrap your mind around that based on a scientific view of the world, it won't make any sense to you. There is a whole philosophical structure of reality you have to accept before their explanation makes sense. | ||
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kiero
Canada136 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On July 11 2008 05:07 GeneralStan wrote: Holding it "hostage" is infantile and extremely disrespectful I think the guy is childish to do something like this just to piss off a group of people. And the group, in turn, is childish in their overreaction. But it's nothing new, really. Just childish people being childish. | ||
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
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SnowFantasy
4173 Posts
On July 11 2008 05:11 Bill307 wrote: I used to be a Catholic (maybe I still am "technically") and believe me, almost no other Catholics I met actually believed that. Some people viewed it symbolically while others never thought twice about it. I don't know maybe they disagree (possibly not knowingly) with one of the main teachings of the Catholic church.. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 1411: "Only validly ordained priests can preside at the Eucharist and consecrate the bread and the wine so that they become the Body and Blood of the Lord." Maybe I'm not understanding something here, but it seems clear to me. On July 11 2008 05:12 Funchucks wrote: The Catholics don't believe it is a physical change, they believe it is a substantial change, a change of substance, of the true nature of the thing. They don't believe that Jesus is physically present, but that he is still present in a real way. If you try to wrap your mind around that based on a scientific view of the world, it won't make any sense to you. There is a whole philosophical structure of reality you have to accept before their explanation makes sense. I'm not understanding something then. What's the difference between a physical change and a change of substance? | ||
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Ryot
Canada316 Posts
On July 11 2008 05:09 HeavOnEarth wrote: and then you and make a thread about catholicism and even go as far to suggest your own theories on something you know nothing about eh ill just leave it at conflict of philosophies and logical thinking <.< it's really disrespectful, from what i read but u know the media... always nit picking little things and inflating it, there's probably some fault on both sides... and i don't see why a compromise/ solution cant be resolved really <_<.. I made a thread on a news story here. And just because I'm an outsider on something I can't form my opinions on it? Look if my initial opinion on it offended people, then I'm sorry. But I really wasn't trying to start a flame thread or anything here. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9107 Posts
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
On July 11 2008 05:17 Ryot wrote: I made a thread on a news story here. And just because I'm an outsider on something I can't form my opinions on it? Look if my initial opinion on it offended people, then I'm sorry. But I really wasn't trying to start a flame thread or anything here. The first mistake was made in the title: by calling it a cracker you unavoidably portrayed your ignorance to what you're posting. You then proceed to tell us that you know next to nothing about Catholicism. If that is the case [and I'm no way saying you can't post your opinion] you should at least make the op more unbiased to avoid a flame war. | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
If you go to a restaurant and you eat a dinner roll from the basket on the table, you are partaking. If you put a dinner roll in your pocket to eat later, you are stealing. Trivial, right? Nobody cares. If you go to a fancy party and the host says, "Help yourself to the wine." and you end up drinking a whole bottle by yourself, that is not stealing. But if you put that same bottle in your pocket and leave, that is stealing. Considering the ridiculous prices of some bottles of wine, it could be grand theft. So if you go to a religious ceremony, and they bless an object and tell you that you may eat it, this is not an invitation to take it and do as you please with it. It has become sacred and priceless, and they have only given you access to their property for this once specific use. This is a crime. Now we just need an Indiana Jones scene where our hero is chased out of a gothic cathedral by angry spear-wielding parishoners, clutching his sacred wafer and dodging darts shot out of gargoyles. | ||
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Quesadilla
United States1814 Posts
On July 11 2008 04:58 SnowFantasy wrote: Ok well in short, Catholics believe there is a physical change involved. The bread and wine is changed to the body/blood of Christ. Not necessarily true. This whole idea came about when the Romans not knowing anything about Christians used to think that they, referring to this ritual, meant that they were cannibals and that late night mass was actually a cover for having orgies. Since then, some people have taken that Roman idea serious and said that the transformation of the bread and wine is true. This is called the belief of Transubstantiation where the substance literately changes. Conversely, the majority of Catholics as well as mainstream Catholicism don't believe in this. They only believe in the symbolism just like hundreds of other things that people do to symbolize something else that is important to them. | ||
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