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! [Q]Tvz mid-late game multitask

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-30 10:17:35
November 30 2007 09:21 GMT
#1
Hi lately im having trouble in my mid-late game macro. Im a pretty bad player, probably wont even be d on iccup. Alot of my games vs zerg go the same way. I go one barrack double command zerg goes 3 hatch muta. I block the muta harass without losing too much and move with my first 3 groups of marines, medics, a few tanks and 1 vessel. And i usually win the first fight with this. But while im attacking with my first hanbang i cant multitask. If you see in the replay that my money doesnt go too high until i start moving out. And than it goes up to like 5 k even when i start queuing like 5 marines in a barrack.

Also i dont know where to go with my first hanbang. I usually go for the zergs nat and send reinforcements to their expos. And when i go for their nat and win the first fight. I dont know what to do after. I just stay in their nat while trying to kill their expos. But than the zerg after time kills my army and than i become in the same situtation as in all my games. I am stuck with 5 k min 2+k gas with only my nat and main. And zerg has whole map. Its like if i dont kill them with my first army i lose. When im in this situtation i dont know what to do.

In my game with the zerg (who is my friend) i made alot of mistakes. Like losing my first marine medic group to speedlings and double stimming them losing them all. And fighting with my units all scattered cause i didnt know where the zerg was. Not defending my expos which in the end made me lose cause i had no more money left. And sending dropships with no medics. And in the game where zerg attacks my last expo at 5 i didnt notice he put lurks in the front. And lost alot of marines that way. And i should have scouted more cause i missed his expos at 12 and 1. I thought i was ahead when i killed his nat. But i gave away my advantage. Also i realized my rallies were bad.

I always think if i just play faster my money would be lower. But it doesnt work. I cant seem to multitask macroing my base while attacking with my first force. I can usually handle just macroing or just microing. Also i wonder how pros or amateurs when they tvz how their money is like 500 all game. Thanks in advance.

Also ps this is my first strat thread since chill got in charge is the format right?
Heres the replay. Sorry for it being abit long. And post got abit big.
click
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-03 16:58:08
November 30 2007 10:12 GMT
#2
edit: god too much text, sorry about that
i underlined the stuff that is easiest to implement and will give the most results.



good op
gave your replay a quick look, you have a few holes in your build but i'll focus on macro and lategame strategy

alright, so you do ok until you move out, at which point...

you know you're gonna be a total donk macro-wise:

- the first thing that will make life easier for you is to have better building positioning. find a nice spot to make a big simcity square of raxes. make factories closer to your ramp so the tanks get stuck less, and depots all at the top somewhere. if macro is already hard for you, you don't want to be trying to find your damn buildings either. a messy base leads to messy production.

- next, i suggest using 2fact tank or even 3fact if you still can't spend the money. this has two advantages - your army becomes easier to control (just siege and trounce his shit) and expensive tanks help keep your money down. you do this by going fact port, and then adding in the factories as soon as you get surplus. also, add a lotttttt of rax as you move out. don't go by what progamers use, if you need 15, by god get 15!

- get your priorities straight! yeah a main army is important, but you can't spend all your attention on it and neglect scouting and macroing. if it really comes to it, i'd rather you park your army outside his nat sieged + macroing well rather than pulling fancy marine micro to kill a nat, only to have 3k/2k. get the most out of your FE and spend!!! you'd be amazed at how many tvzs there are where the terran loses his main army over and over again only to win in the end because he can churn out endless armies. FE is incredibly powerful but only if you can maintain the macro.

you are completely lost:

- scout better. you should have an scv or marine at each main, ideally patrolling the nat. every zerg knows that having an scv bitch their drone out of an expo is annoying as hell, and you're really paying 50 minerals to delay his expo by minutes. at the very least you will know of their existence and can stop them before they become profitable or well defended.

- if he is going faster hive (like immediately after his first group of lurkers), it becomes much easier to go for his expoes. bunker up a bit at home, keep tabs on his main army and go around aiming to stop him at 2 gas. he won't be able to do much this way once his hive tech comes about. if he is delaying for more lair units, you can oftentimes just roll over his nat since higher upgraded terran armies become stronger and stronger compared to lair tech armies as upgrades, tank concentrations and vessel counts go up.

- upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. this helps you spend a bit of money, but this really makes or breaks you if his hive stuff is out. you REALLY want those damage upgrades marines against his 850932581 armor ultras, and armor upgrades to render his lurkers basically useless without swarm.

- start using 2 dropships full of mm during hive tech, matrixed if he has lots of scourge flying around. drop his main, kill his ultra den, defiler mound, and tech buildings. this buys you a lot of time and gives you the opportunity to kill a lot of his stuff. if you can handle it, do two at once. a lot of zergs especially at low levels will simply have only enough attention to focus on one, giving you a free base to kill.

- mines and tanks and vessels and other imba shit - if it's getting to late game and you feel your mobility is restricted by the threat of a swarm counter or whatever, get mines and lay them at possible counter routes. send your army the other way to other bases, and smile at him suiciding into mines. be careful though, you often need a lot more mines than you think and you still have to have mm + tanks behind the mines to kill his units after they've been softened up. finally, if you manage to have a third or fourth gas definitely start spending all your excess gas in vessels. after a critical count you have an irradiate basically every 30 seconds, allowing you great mobility and a lot of free kills.


remember, tvz (and zvt) is known as one of the most mechanically demanding mus. don't be discouraged, it takes a really long time to build the efficiency and speed necessary to play it well.

Moderatorsloppy little slug
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-30 13:56:31
November 30 2007 10:39 GMT
#3
Thank you for everything
Can you also name the holes in my build. I really dont know any builds besides what i see progamers do.

Yes you're right about my building placement. Usually when i play tvz im so into the game that i just add random barracks, depots, facts, port that my tanks tend to get stuck. Also it takes a while finding and browsing through my base. And i realized that i do spend too much trying to micro my rines which makes me end up with 3k min. And than i forget scouting and macroing. And no matter how good i micro my units if i dont reinforce it, it will eventually die. But when i dont pay attention to my main army i usually end up being attacked while im in my base macroing and my units all die.

Also i have a question which i dont know how to word properly. Sometimes when im at the zergs nat. The zerg has no army and while im containing them. I dont go in or too slowly and i feel like i let them back in the game. Sort of vague. Pressure should know what im talking about (My game vs intotherainx). Also i noticed that i tend to stop hotkeying units after my first hanbang probably because i feel lost. And because of my bad macro i end up with more vessels than rines.

Also i dont mind intrigue if its long. Tvz is my fav mu. I enjoy watching, playing, and reading about it.
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
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