A normal game just for JAT <3
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gumshoe
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gumshoe
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I'm so tired of rolling town this is like 5 games in a row. I'm VT, I'm now confirmed town. sad/elaborate.Koshi hasn't posted = confirmed scum ##Vote: Koshi I may or may not be blue... I may or may not be VT neutral/coyJust got home. Now it's naptime. a bit morose.I am VT... VT Claim plain and almost an after thought.======================================================= these are all the scum games where Onegu claims vt that I could find. While he can certainly use his touch stone in a melancholy fashion as town(like that one time when hf, the love of his life broke his heart), he seems to consistently dredge it up half heartededly when hes scum. the above posts compared to this one.... VT claim First post make it confirmed ##Vote: Rsoultin Jeez I love when games are this easy. show a pretty big contrast. Unless theres some outside factor at play (something happy in his life offsetting the tension of rolling scum, or hes pushing himself a bit to be bold) I think Onegu is town based off tone / : | ||
gumshoe
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so yeah ##vote: Rsoultin in case anyones not yet onboard- OH GEE ROFL I FORGOT LMFAO LOL ROFLMFAO SOOOOO OBLIVIOUS AND SHIT Because I really cant make a more convincing argument than that. | ||
gumshoe
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On April 15 2016 08:29 rsoultin wrote: + Show Spoiler + GB: Depende, ¿te gusta la rica oscuridad de chocolate? ¿Y dónde está el portugués? Oneg: siempre me odias ;o; Gum: o.0 hay mucha de tantas pocas palabras alla lol GB: Depends, do you like the delicious darkness of chocolate? And where's the Portuguese? Oneg: You always hate me ;o; Gum: o.0 So much from so few words lol it's a touch stone : P early game is scary, lotsa players get these little quirks to hide behind, though mestillthinks they can let a bit through that can be noted. also for better or worse, alot from a little is basically my mafia bread and butter -_T why does onegu hate you? what do you think of gb trying to reach out to you purely because onegu random voted you? | ||
gumshoe
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On April 15 2016 09:02 GlowingBear wrote: Gumshoe!!!! You're Mafia. ##vote: Gumshoe Beetlejuice : D | ||
gumshoe
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gumshoe
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On April 15 2016 10:58 GlowingBear wrote: I'd translate it to "villa", but pueblo is fine Gumshoe, am I mafia? well, I cant know exactly XD but suffice to say you have done nothing scummy. The one point of notability is explained by this. GB generally tries to get my attention and get me to read him when he's town, but I don't actually think that one post is enough to townread him for. Essentially I don't think it actually has anything to do with Onegu's vote. Rsoultin's testimony proves that your post was not likely some scum motivated attempt at establishing rapor with someone under pressure, but rather an expression of an existing dynamic between the two of you which that I was not aware of. You also called Onegu's logic stupid, but to be fair, you weren't wrong. Are you town? Hard to say, have you done anything lynch worthy? Not even remotely as of yet. Tentatively in the green / : | ||
gumshoe
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gumshoe
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On April 15 2016 19:09 Rels wrote: I missed this one actually: What is the deal with the smileys ? They don't make sense. Why are you not happy while finding townreads ? They are not smileys,theyre shrugs meant to make it clear that Ultimatly I have no clue what onegu or gb or anyone for that matter day 1 are currently, as no real evidence has cropped up and I can see every reaction so far coming from town or scum, but am tentatively ruling them as town based off feel and lack of apparent malevolent intent. But Ultimatly, unless someone actually fucks up, I am liable to be wrong. TLDR the Shrug = the akndoledgment that the universe is a vast unknowable place, as well one cannot ever truly know someone face to face let alone over a forum where everyone prides themselves on lying, and lastly that day 1 mafia is hard. | ||
gumshoe
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On April 15 2016 22:16 JustAnotherScummer wrote: But at least, Day 1 mafia is not the hardest day, in my opinion. Moreover, Day 1 is usually the best time, to linen you rod with bait and go scum fishing! They are the most slippery of these days, especially this season, as it seems. But onto the real point to be had. You say you have no clue upon which alignment was bestowed upon the other players, Sir Onegu/Glowingbear, yet early on, all you seem to be doing was establishing connections, like any player should do. However, this seems contradiction, when you describe the usage and the meaning of the :/. Therefore, my question to you is simple yet complex. Currently, anyone, who demonstrates a appeal of safety and happiness, gets you love. Yet you are ready to jump when a persons slips up. Nor are you confident in even the love you give. So my question is: What are your reads? The ones you feel confident in? And how would you jump on someone who has "fucked up"? reads I am usually confident with come from 1: players who I have played many games with and am familiar with, example, I usually have a really good read on rayn and am able to acertain his loyalty pretty fast (the game before the last one I played I was convinced he was town accordingly with his outbursts while many were certain he was scum) or 2: players who as the days go on seems pretty clearly town via thier voting patterns and thier actions ( again, the game before my last one is a good example, though cant remember the name, in that game there were several voting patterns that seemed silly coming from scum) Currently neither of these 2 are present, so any town read I give is tentative. Furthermore, even if a player fits one of the criteria, I have still been dead wrong in the past (bh in that very same game) the difference is that scum have to play a really good or confusing game to meet my criteria, which is why I generally count it as reliable. As for what I'd jump on, In the last game I played (the one we were just in, you know where I got shot for reading too much into stuff early) Kurumi (who was scum) accused me and someone who was already accusing me(sick I think) pretty much in the same post. This indicated that he was not trying to create a picture of associations in his head, but rather attacking whatever weakness he saw in order to look productive. This is the kind of contradiction I would jump on day 1, the kind of contradiction that isn't currently present / : | ||
gumshoe
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On April 15 2016 22:58 Rels wrote: It's an small indicator. Onegu likes being scum and does not like being town. Him being all excited is a little bit weird if he's town. Ah but when hes scum he has to feign being sad as well, so not give away that hes scum (something I found) there have been games where hes come off as excited right off the bat as town, but none with a vt claim as scum. At worst it's a null point, but as I already said, I feel it is a point in his favour currently / : | ||
gumshoe
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On April 15 2016 23:31 Rels wrote: Something like that. Alright gumshoe can you expand on your GB's townread ? I think your "1 of the 4 people caring about the game" thing is bullshit because: - it was so close to the start of the game, so if he's posting ofc he's going to be one of the only posters, regardless of his alignment - he made only 1 serious post at that point, asking about your thoughts on him when he asked Rsol if she was town, It looked like he was doing that purely based off Onegu's vote (who he was antagonistic towards with his her der post) I figured theres was something more going on there, wether that was a dynamic between rsoul or scum trying to open up against onegu, I asked Rsoul what she thought to figure that out. She said it was something that he does most games they play, which means that even if Gb did it malevolently, there isnt much way to tell the two apart. Ergo, Gb is null at worst. Coupled with Rsoul saying this is the kind of thing Gb does as town, I trusted the opinion of someone more familiar with him, and as Rsoul's statement does not fluctuate according to her alignment (though I do townread her a bit off feel) I upticked Gb to green. Also I'd like to contest three points of yours. 1: it was so close to the start of the game, so if he's posting ofc he's going to be one of the only posters, To the people present, the game did indeed feel quite dead Well, normally I just talk in one :/ not translate back and forth. Quiet thread is quiet. Nothing overly notable has happened, imo. so even if not much time had actually passed, the perception was that things were going slow. To actively engage when things are fairly dead usually feels townie to me, though as I said, it's not something I'm overly confident about. For contrast, Palmer who I currently scum read a smidge, ##vote rsoultin casually jumped in to enforce shit posting (thereby acknowledging it's existence) and then left without trying to change the situation. Does that outright make Palmer scum? No, but in contrast Gb looks far better for his attempts at dialogue. 2: Every post is a serious post, attempts at breaking the ice come paired with mood, which is always readable. Or at least thats what I believe, so at the time of reading of Gb, I regarded all his posts with weight, not just the one where he questions me. 3: You claim day 1 is easy, well I frankly disagree, for me it's almost always a nightmare that usually ends with me actually hitting the ground. Also, your currently coming after me, which means it cant be that easy for you ethier / : | ||
gumshoe
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I kinda town read Obi Nothing overly notable has happened, imo. Well, that's not 100% true. I have two or three tenative townreads atm - you and Gb, possibly Palmar if I'm feeling generous. I feel like scum would be less likely to double back like that, it's the kind of mistake scum would be on guard not to make / : be back in like 4 hours, glhf | ||
gumshoe
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On April 16 2016 01:37 JustAnotherScummer wrote: Mr. Gumshoe, I went to the database, to find the game you were talking about (with the player kuru) yet your last game doesn't have him. Which humble game were you talking about? Storm mafia, Kuru is Kurumi People should slow the hell down, I am astonished with the role talking and people manage to create another page of it. I see nothing wrong with Superbia's early vote on gumshoe. When did sicklucker say anything about gumshoe? He has vote on him and no posts to back it up. this is the post he made shortly after coming after me. This is what I said in response basically. just voted for Kurumi, but yeah my primary problem is she is pursuing two reads that are fairly opposed without a hint of reservation regarding that conflict. From a townie perspective those two reads would clash and be worthy of note in provided logic, but it hasnt even occured to Kurumi insofar. What seems more likely is she just doesnt want to draw atention to the Janus nature of her current logic, a setup that favours an outcome for scum wherein I and lick are both town. it feels like an opinion born of machinations rather then genuine perspective. Poisened at it's root with contradiction. The other game I mentioned is vanilla mini mafia, a game that is quite relevant as I was pretty townie there too and Gb would not stop pushing me(he was town too) until I had to swear on my and my parents lives to convince him -_- hopefully I dont have to go that far again for him (seriously Gb, one of these games your going to get me and everyone I love killed.) Gumshoe, why did you post that analysis on Onegu's openings? cause I figured he probs opens up like that alot and wanted to see if I can find any trends amongst his scum games, which I did. I think gumshoe is overextending explanations too much bitch you know exactly who I am -_- couple other points If you scumread Palmar, what do you think of several people posting in thread that Palmar can do this as town ? I acknowledge that he could do this as town, but I dont excuse him for his play as a result. Hes basically pressuring a lynch that started out randomly and hes offered zero argument for it. Also the big problem with this being acceptable meta is it's really really lazy play. Which means it's super easy to replicate. Would palmer have the guts to do that? Of course, hes a very confident player. So disregarding his negligible meta, what were left with is a lackluster day 1 that is very much so lynch worthy. And finally, Tumble, you think I'm town, so disregarding my initial post on Onegu and your read of it that hinges on me bieng scum, what do you think of him? Is he someone you would lynch today? | ||
gumshoe
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Dis right here, I feel like this was kind of an invitation to stop being a dick, but Palmer just flat out refused the offer / : When your scum, you kind of have to keep pushing threads that your town self would have abandoned long ago. So yeah, this feels like forced antagonism. Tumble what do you think of Palmer?(and Onegu of course) | ||
gumshoe
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obiwan Jas Tumbleweed They hold varying opinions on Rsoultin and I want to know what you think of their current approaches and of course their alignment in general. | ||
gumshoe
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On April 17 2016 01:51 GlowingBear wrote: Hi gais, I'm here haro, I answered your earlier question on page 15. | ||
gumshoe
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On April 17 2016 01:57 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I've read it. So you really trust in that analysis? It wasn't just to have people discussing? Do I think it's the end all be all of proof that Onegu is town? Nop, I've been wrong with way more evidence than that in hand (bh). Do I think it has merit though? Sure. The data I found showed that Onegu tends to try and seem sullen when he vt claims as scum, that or he skips the vt claim entirely. If Onegu is scum, something has caused him not to react as he normally would. It would be equally erroneous to disregard his diverging behavior entirely as it would be too treat it as an actual exoneration. Yet thats all besides the point, the real question you should be asking is "would town gumshoe do this just to start discussion"? The answer is of course yes. Done exactly that many a gam, (though I'm usually convinced what I have to say has some basis all the same ; P). So if you still think I'm scummy, then you must accept that your doing so based off feel rather than reason, which I would consider a clear mistake in light of the last time you were 'certain' I was scum. | ||
gumshoe
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“If the person who called Onegu town at the very start is scum, Onegu is town. Gumshoe is prob town This initial post is a mess, Jas called him out on it, but I really feel he left him off too easy. On the one hand, Tumble is saying that I did something typical of scum, therefore onegu is town. On the other hes saying that I’m his top town read(while not offering any evidence as to why ) and that onegu is just null Oh Onegu is one of those people who prefers talking about how great they are to playing the game Yeah I'm not reading him until he actually has content Hes of two completely opposite minds here, his two stances in his first few posts pretty much cancel out, though he seems to still regard me as town for reasons he hasn't actually provided. Only one piece of information can actually be extracted from this contradictory mess. That if I’m scum, Onegu is town and likely vice versa. So let's run through the possibilities, the pro human scenario here is that I flip scum thereby clearing Onegu of suspicion. This is the least likely case according to Tumble himself as I am fairly townie, therefore the possibility of me getting killed by town are low. Which means we can also disregard the possibility of me flipping town and what that might mean for onegu(likely nothing). This leaves the Onegu flips, if Onegu flips town (which I think he might) than according to tumble, that means that I, his top town read, have a high probability of flipping scum. Also to be honest an argument can be pretty easily made for why Onegu flipping scum doesn't look good on me either. Tumble’s relatively innocuous linking of me and Onegu’s alignments hinges on me (his top town read) flipping red to be of any use, it also possibly results in my lynch in response to a practically inevitable Onegu flip. So to summarize, if Tumble is town, he has created a vulnerability to be exploited, if not by him than likely scum, against his top town read. Or hes at least made said vulnerability very very clear, while effectively doing nothing for Onegu (as a potential death for me at the hands of town will not likely come before his, which means my theoretical red flip will never come in time to save him). So yeah, kinda of a wierd move coming from a townie. ------------------------------------------------------- So lets approach it from the other side, say tumble is scum, we know that me and him are unlikely to be scum together because of the existence of this post, which means onegu is unlikely to be scum with tumble as my death would never actually clear him(cause Im not scum if tumbles scum) and his death would not outright incriminate me according to tumbles logic (though I still personally think onegu flipping scum would do me no favours XD) Basically, there's no gain to this post for scum tumble if either onegu or I am also scum, it’s a 1 1 trade at best. Considering that Tumble kind of contradicted himself with this post (saying I did something scummy in a roundabout way while making me his top town read) I have a hard time believing that he would put himself out there like that with no gain in mind. Therefore we can only conclude that if Tumble is scum, me and Onegu are town and things would ideally go down like this for him. Onegu dies, he flips green, then someone, preferably a misguided townie (looking at you Gb) comes after me for what looks like an early game pocketing of Onegu. I am then lynched or am cast under enough suspicion that I serve as a vote draw, thereby allowing scum more leverage over the lynch. This is the scenario in which tumbles post makes the most sense. If we consider his scum intent clashing with his acceptance of thread sentiment (at this point several key townies ruled me green), we can explain the three major points of obscurity in his post. 1: His unexplained town read of me 2: his seemingly contradictory analysis of my interactions with onegu(in respect to his town read of me) and 3: the use of ‘the person’ and 'gumshoe' separately to refer to me in the same post. “If the person who called Onegu town at the very start is scum, Onegu is town.” “Gumshoe is prob town” I think Tumble is well aware of the contradictory nature of his post and either consciously or unconsciously reveals the divide in his play between what he feels he needs to do as scum to 'the person' and how he feels he should actually appear to keep his cover. Yeah… that last psychoanalysis bit is a stretch but my point is basically this, his combining of me and onegu’s alignments makes much more sense from a scum view than a town one. Thats the big thing, but theres some other bits. Do you think that "D1 is hard" is because Fazers is scum or because he's just a scrub? Yeah… this really looks like hes trying to get people to jump on a nub. @gumshoe: Even though I would like Palmar to explain his reads, I can't just make town policy-lynch him every game until he starts explaining them. I don't have any strong feelings on Onegu, but I'll give his filter another go.” Him giving Palmar a pass (another scumish read of mine) does not look particularly good on him / : (though to be fair alot of people seem to be doing it, fringe perks of the throne I suppose) I have no idea how to read JAS but his alignment is probably easy I feel like this kind of translates into “ I will sheep the eventual consensus on what jas is” which is probally how he came to town read me initially / : Lastly his Rsoul push just feels really lackluster, theres no real emotion there, he just sort of kind of thinks she's acting meh. I'd go into it, but this is already long enough and the wagon on Rsoul started with a random Onegu vote so I have a really hard time taking the whole thing seriously -_- So yeah, Tumble is currently mah kill of preference. ##vote tumble obligatory | ||
gumshoe
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On April 17 2016 03:48 Tumblewood wrote: 1. I read through the thread once and did not remember that it was you who defended Onegu. I also do preflip association all the time as town. 2. I wanted to make rsoul commit to a stance on fazers. 3. It's true tho 4. Why does this make me scum though 5. I don't make emotional cases ever. The onegu random vote did not influence my decision. 1: Thats so godamm derp. You called out someone as scummy and in the same breath named them town? welp unless I care to call you a dirty liar, then there goes that argument t_t 2: as for why it made you scum, the flip association you created or rather distinguished had no positive outcomes for town, but if you didn't realize your town read was the same person as the guy who made the post, then... yeah, oh well. 3-4 sigh 5: Is that a challenge? I'm sure I can find one game where you made an emotional case XD double sigh ##unvote wats the opposite of an objection? | ||
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