EPT[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Gotta admit, I don't even think I'm good enough to handle that. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Welp, gonna go with my usual opener. I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum. One of these days I will have another scumgame; it seems that day is not today. Holy! Where you at? I've never played a non-voice game with you before. Let's do something. This game just got a whole lot easier. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 21 2014 15:43 WaveofShadow wrote: o.O Welp, don't know what to make of that, so I'ma ignore it for now. Welcome to the game Foolishness? Wait. Wait. If you are going to ignore it, why did you respond to it? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 21 2014 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote: So Foolish, do you think I'm making mountains of molehills? I've garnered two votes already, and since you didn't vote for me I'm left thinking that you must just disagree with my points? You and Hapa are two townies that are arguing with each other over nothing. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
There are quite a few questionable people in this game, but by eliminating some obvious town players things start to make more sense. Towniest of towns Hapa VE Kitaman Hapa is by far the most town person in this game? Why, put simply if you read his filter he is here, he is active and he is pushing pro-town agendas. This is seen because he is generating conversation, trying to organize the town and get everyone on the same page, and questioning suspicious players where appropriate. This is not a matter of debate if you have read the thread. Kitaman is similar in matter and this has already been brought to light by a few players. Actually when I started reading the game yesterday his posting reminded me a lot of myself. Slight trolly attitude to try to get things moving, but when push came to shove he was there to call people out on their shit. Now, if you want to read into that and say, "But Foolishness, Kitaman is usually a strong analyzer, posting paragraphs of information and analysis about a person's behavior and actions" I got nothing to say back about that yet. Though I'm sure time will confirm what I think here. The thing with VE is that yes, on his own some of his posts are suspicious. This one in particular made me raise an eyebrow: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 01:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Morning guys. Marv no, I don't think it's the same kind of Prome that I'm used to seeing. What it reminds me of is that game I was the mayor and lynched the piss out of Prome D1. He was a lurky little shit that game, but I caught him on something very similar to what I noticed this game. Like I think it's awful that I have to ask this, but did you read my post on him? That being said, I at least dig one of his targets. I asked Foolish about his thoughts on this same matter and what I got is "lol you and Hapa townies" which is definitely NOT what I was after. He answered my question as if he'd read the exchange between us, but left me with a feeling that he hadn't actually read anything at all. If I see one more person say they're going to ignore my posts, I won't be responsible for the outcome. You have been warned. where the first two paragraphs seem really out of place and forced, though the last two sentences of the post read very town. However I think if you just read through his filter and analyze it as a whole there's nothing to be afraid of. Is he pushing any sort of mafia agenda? No. Does it feel like he doesn't have the town's best interest in mind? No. Does it feel like he's actually trying to figure things out? Yes. Now I can see why some people have shed some suspicion on him (unlike anyone calling Hapa or Kita mafia), but he just does not feel mafia, and he's definitely interested in the game. Questionable players Austin sandroba marvellosity Holyflare Gonzaw This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen. The following 3 people are all in the ? category. Marvellosity and Holyflare in particular because for all that they have said I don't feel they have really contributed much. Even as I'm writing this I'm thinking back, "what has marvellosity or holyflare done this game", and I cannot remember a single post they have made. That's a bad sign. Anything mafia indicative off the bat? No so much, but then seem to be here without actually being here. Gonzaw is only questionable and not mafia because of his recent vote on me. As kitaman properly pointed out, gonzaw brought up a lot of new information about the case on me. That's good and productive. But as he also pointed out, gonzaw just kinda did nothing with it. "Oh here you go I did some research, now don't mind me anymore let me go be trolly and lurk some more" is that kinda vibe I got from that. mafia Promethelax WaveOfShadow I will go into a little more detail here. On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Welp, gonna go with my usual opener. I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum. One of these days I will have another scumgame; it seems that day is not today. Holy! Where you at? I've never played a non-voice game with you before. Let's do something. What about this post is good? He says generic things that anybody can say. Also the "Let's do something" seems incredibly forced. What does he hope to accomplish by saying that? I don't know (most likely he's mafia) and it feels like he's trying very hard to sound like he's vested in the game (when all he would have to do is just post whatever his thoughts are). And then there's this post as well. On January 21 2014 11:41 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't think lurkers will be an issue in this game. I'm really confused by your opener though...you want to discuss policy and then you state right after that you don't want to discuss it? Like...discussion of policy on its own isn't scummy imo but why did you go about it so awkwardly? I do agree with the non-aggression thing, but no offense---I'd imagine you'd have to be one of the primary people to agree with that (and it seems as though you have?) Now onto more important details: why specifically Hapa? Do you two have a history? Is he going to want to make a case on you at all, never mind find something specific in this post of yours in order to make one? Which fails to do nothing but ask more questions of which he never followed through on (neither of them really followed through on to be honest), when he could do have done something like actively push Promethelax to say something of substance. The thing about Promethelax is that his first post is a big pile of words and nobody said anything about it besides WoS which was just a passing remark. Here's the post again: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 11:35 Promethelax wrote: Okay broskis, this is just silly. We know how to start a game and it isn't this Mafia Scum inspired baseless lynches shall we discuss policy? Why yes we shall because you all will actually have to commit to something. Since we aren't the run of the mill hokey dory TL types I think its time we set a few ground rules: there should be no discussion of policy lynching lurkers. We simply lynch them. If everyone is good enough to be shadowed everyone is good enough to play the game and we cannot tolerate lurkers. It is my hope that this particular policy doesn't come into play since, obviously, we are the best that TL has so we should play the best as well and lurking simply isn't the best. We are all good enough to carry a town and I would like us all to be that good this game. Play your hearts out gentlemen. I would also like a non-aggression pact. That is we all agree to play nice since I'd rather like to be good role models for our newbies. And yes, I know I'm scummy for posting this, does someone want to come out and say it so that I can defend myself and we can move on with this game and make actual cases on each other and find scum. Unlike WoS I was excited to roll scum in this game, I figured I'd have an excuse to be steamrolled but if I did a good job it would be a huge accomplishment but no, I'm town, I have to figure things out. I would much rather lie to you all but fuck me, I don't get to lie to you. I gotta work for my money. So get it together boys, we are policy lynching lurkers, we aren't going to be mean to each other and we are going to catch scum. And we'll start with Hapa making a case on me, why? Because its tradition is why. Promethelax even admits that his post is awful and that we should call him out on it. Sounds great to me! This kinda bait is definitely a mafia trait and if he thinks he's posting bad then we should definitely lynch him for it. The reason being, if he knows his post his bad why is he making it in the first place? His initial post accomplishes nothing and says nothing and only adds fluff to the thread. I am also bothered by his most recent thread post: On January 21 2014 22:42 Promethelax wrote: Sometimes it worries me that you and I know each other so well when it comes to this game. Sometimes it makes me warm and fuzzy. People I don't like: Foolishness (total lack of justification and his total dismissal of VE/Hapa as townie v townie, both of them are totally capable of what they have done so far as scum and to just not be interested in them at all is scummy) Kita (said "I don't call people scummy early because it makes people listen to me less later" which isn't true and so totally wired that it rings scummy since I cannot figure out what it gives a town Kita while it does provide some benefit to a scum Kita.) People who are Gonzaw but haven't posted Gonzaw like posts after fluff o'clock : Gonzaw Because all his reads feel very convenient. There is nothing in his filter that gives us new information or his original thoughts. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, honestly Promethelax is the best lynch right now because the case on him is the strongest, but I need to hear opinions on WaveOfShadow while we have the time. Who we are lynching today: Promethelax, WaveOfShadow. If they died probably not a huge loss: marvellosity, HolyFlare, Gonzaw Everyone else deserves to live another day at the least. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote: Foolish I'm curious if you've looked at any of WoS's meta at all? Yes I did that yesterday when I first accused him. However I did not find anything really damning on that front. He's only had one game as mafia here and there weren't any glaring similarities to that. For example, when WoS was mafia he swore a ton (just skim through his posts and you will see that) but when he's town that kind of attitude is absent. Also feels like he might be slightly more trolly when he's mafia. I'm still suspicious of him and want to clear the air on him now and not later because as I said in my previous posts he made a lot of generic statements and had opportunities to answer questions and instead only gave more questions to the thread. And a part of me does feel that his interaction with Promethelax says that at most one of them is mafia. I may be reading into that too much. On January 22 2014 08:00 gonzaw wrote: I thought my previous sexy posts already made me town by then kita  Hmm, okay, I think we might get a little bit off track with all the discussions, questions, and shit going on. Personally, I want these: 1)Foolishness to do something more (I'm not very much convinced by his post. I read the Champion's Game as well marv). Notice how there's a lack of defense for his "horrible" posts. 2)Get some consensus on Holy based on what I posted 3)I guess some real talk about who to lynch this D1, not just fleeting questions and suspicions. All my posts and every word I write has a distinct purpose. I don't have time to waste. At this moment I feel that Promethelax or HolyFlare should be lynched today. Gonzaw's catch on Holyflare's contradiction is really damning and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger just on that. HolyFlare's defense did feel a bit contrived and forced? He did bring up some good points but at the same time I don't feel like he said all that much. That may just be confirmation bias at this point though. I had HolyFlare on my question mark list since yesterday because as I said it felt like he was here posting but I couldn't remember anything he did and that is troublesome. Gonzaw I brought my arguments against you when you brought forth the analysis against me and I still stand by what I said. However I would not lynch you since you are actually here and posting and bring new information to the thread (and not just information about Holyflare either). There's no reason to doubt your alignment at this point especially if this posting rate keeps up. Same with Austin as well. I still stand by that marvellosity is a big mystery this game. He's not our lynch today but everyone should have at least one eye on him. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 22 2014 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Here's something that I still find off about Foolish's reentry post. This is where he explains his super townread of me right? But look at the bolded bit. He's criticizing me asking marv about my Prom post and the part where I share my observation about our interaction, but says that the TOWNIE bit is the last two sentences, the "fluffy" angry nonsense at the end. Like, I'm trying to wrap my head around this. He thinks I'm town, presumably he knows that I share at least Promethelax as a scumread, but he tries to lightly discredit me while calling me townie? And after the entire post, I STILL don't know if he actually READ my post on Promethelax. Something doesn't add up. I'm missing something, somewhere. Bringing light to the fact that your post was incredibly weird minus the last two sentences. It was really odd, and I don't think I'm the only one who said so. You're town and we all know it. Don't pull a gonzaw. On January 23 2014 03:10 gonzaw wrote: You know, I'm kind of serious with this Foolishness stuff. Does any one of you have anything to say about him? Basically: 1)Voting WOS, wanting to lynch other guys, but never change his vote and goes AFK 2)Seeming contradiction, since he almost thought I was scummy scum because I "did" something similar 3)People seemed to find him town because they agreed with him. But right now, apparently town sentiment against WOS and Prome dropped, so what makes that post of him townie now? 4)Remember the time he made a horrible entrance to the game making a scummy vote, pointless post and unfounded reads? 1) I explained why I kept my vote on WoS, since then he has responded and I liked what he said. He's being very affirmative and speaking his thoughts. When I first accused him early in the day I thought the opposite of this (also explained in my earlier posts). Now he's here, he's posting, and he's trying for the town. And that's the direction I started to lean towards when I made my big post. My vote on WoS was to affirm this suspicion, and also to get other people to comment on it. 2) Don't know what you're exactly referring to. But you were being trolly at the start of the day and it was impossible to know what your motives were. Your motives are clear now. As I also said in my recent post, you dying would answer a lot of questions. Not that that's going to happen anytime soon (or ever really). 3) Promethelax is scum. WoS probably not. Read above. 4) Nope. ##Unvote ##Vote: Promethelax | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
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On January 23 2014 05:10 VisceraEyes wrote: UGH GOD SRSLY? 100% Serious. You know and I know it too. | ||
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Foolishness
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On January 23 2014 05:15 WaveofShadow wrote: No no. I'm not satisfied here. What exactly about my early posting would ever make you think I wasn't posting my thoughts then, but all of a sudden I am now? WHY is Prome scum? Spell it out for those of us who might be a little bit slow. Already explained this in my earlier post about you. You were speaking in generics and not getting things done for the town. | ||
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Foolishness
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On January 23 2014 05:14 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, Foo, I'll assume your vote is not real since you haven't addressed any of Prome's new posts. I'll assume you just parked it there and now will calmly read the thread and Prome's filter and address his new posts and suspicions and either incorporate them to your case or change your mind about Prome Right? 100% Real. I have read it. Nothing has changed. Also it is clear that in the last few pages you are just searching for arguments against me that aren't there. I responded to your main points and obviously since you have nothing to say about them it is obvious that there is nothing to say about them (cause there isn't!) | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
You're here and posting, should be obvious that you are town. He's not here and not posting, and that speaks volumes for him. | ||
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Foolishness
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On January 23 2014 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Foolishness can you comment on the conversation VE and I had about Prome that ended with the above post? Sounds like you're making good arguments why he should be lynched. Look at it this way. Let's say I posted and said, "Kitaman is the best lynch right now!" what would you respond? You'd say, "wtf he's been pushing the town in the right direction and asking good questions." Now I say, "Promethelax is the best lynch right now!" (or Holyflare) what is your response? You say, "Eh, I feel like he's doing okay..." I don't see any arguments that show that Promethelax is pushing the town in the right direction or pushing a pro-town agenda. He's responded sure, but where's the conviction and the push to get something done? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 05:25 gonzaw wrote: Sorry that doesn't make much sense to me. I'd think after "getting obvious scum" Holy (based on your post) you wouldn't really care about "pressuring" WoS with that vote, and would care more about, you know, voting scum. I said I was confirming my read on him. You're asking me a question and quoting the post I answered it in? See where my vote is now? Promethelax or HolyFlare, both are good lynches. HolyFlare's recent posts are very meh, but he could genuinely be frustrated and he did ask to be replaced out. Had he not asked to be subbed out this would be an easy decision, but I feel his real life frustration could be coming out in his posting behavior. I could also just be reading too much into this. On January 23 2014 05:27 kitaman27 wrote: Could you explain how this applies to austin and not Prom's recent set of big posts. I haven't found much merit in the recent set of posts by prom, but nor do I find austin's all that special. How did you differentiate the two? Look at his two posts here: + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2014 04:29 austinmcc wrote: PAGING MARV Small game, not overly themed. You were shot N1 by Sandroba in the game. Scum team was Sandroba/ShiaoPi/?. I was a watcher, watched you N1, saw Sandroba shoot you. On D2 I tried to buddy up to Sandroba rather than dunk him as mafia. This caused some problems later on in the game for me. Name that game! LET US BEGIN TO CHAT! YES? (I will have to pause shortly for an interview thing, but oh well) Anything OVERTLY scummy from marv, or just the general worry? I don't share your worry about Foolishness right now, but I do about Sandroba. Working on that, because there are very few scumgames but the town filters I'm reading are much more involved, except generally more involved as far as planning and policy and whatnot is concerned, less him being very involved in reads and discussion (so not perfectly applicable to this game). The only worry I have on Foolishness is his putting Sandroba up at townie-neutral for getting active, when Sandroba was really just posting on one subject and it wasn't a boatload of new thoughts/info. Anyway, you should also ask me some questions. I know I only have the one about marv here right now, but poke me! + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2014 05:16 austinmcc wrote: Simmer down, Gonzaw There's a whole heck of a lot of people I haven't mentioned between then and now, he's one of em. That list is what, 2/3 or more of players in the game? Somewhere around there? He's particular in that I mentioned him before, I know. Right now I'm elsewhere.I don't care about them. They don't make him town. I don't think they make him mafia. A couple SUPER OVERTLY trolly posts are posts that I read as "trolly", not as town or scum. I see more meat from scum Foolishness in Parallel Worlds than I do here, have not read Liar Game in years. I think his long list post is...okay. It's not as pushy as his Parallel Worlds list post, which doesn't count for terribly much. He doesn't blow anyone's socks off with any read, there's nothing damning/sanctifying about anyone that nobody else had seen, which would make the post a little better/worse depending on what he found, but I'm fine with it in general EXCEPT that the section on sandro and I is odd to me. Everyone else has pretty particular reasons, sandro and I are lumped together and I don't really agree with him that sandro had gotten post-happy within the recent pages before Foolishness posted his big thing. See my question to Foolishness about the sandro read in my filter.Some of my thoughts are above. His scumreads are ... convenient? But mostly fine with me. He justifies them, doesn't really push them, oh well. I'm really not concerned there. His second sizeable post...I don't love? His HolyFlare section is pure mush, maybe the mushiest statement in his two large posts.not really what I would expect from anyone pushing a read, or one of his two lynch candidates. Gonzaw's post on HF good, this point good, HF's defense felt contrived and forced, except he made good points, except he didn't say much, except maybe it's just confirmation bias. That's very very very limp-wristed. A NUMBER of people posted questions to him concerning his large reads post, and he really only answered about WoS and HF, also don't love that. So, first big post I'm not scummy on him for. Second big post I don't love as a post, the HF bit is the longest and is pure mush, but...whatever. I'm not seeing Foolishness scum as heavily as you are.No, not wrong. He's got posts that aren't pure troll, although they're just setup chat - + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 09:13 Foolishness wrote: Okay so we choose someone to lynch here today. If you are in the world where you're not lynching (and voting to swap) you should be voting to swap a person who you think is innocent. Swap powers should be used to get innocent people into the swap world, and mafia into the lynch world. Presumably we can only vote for people in our world? On December 12 2012 09:20 Foolishness wrote: Honestly we should just not swap players at all if we can help it. those two into the first bit about not swapping in the post you brought up, which IS more trolly Moreover, that post IS trolly. But look at the followup. He does dick all forever with his marv comment and vote. He doesn't really respond to anything but marv for almost 24 hours until he starts talking with Palmar in more detail (he gives crappy little posts to Keirathi and marv in response, not like his response here). There's a decent amount of posting, even shitty posting, trying to get something done. Here there's no posting trying to get anything done. His response/explanation post (the second big one), doesn't go anywhere, doesn't push anything, just waffles around. WHICH SOUNDS PARTICULARLY SCUMMY, EH? But in a game where there hasn't been huge pushes on people yet, it looks different enough from the way he was actually trying to do a thing, even lazily trying to do a thing, in that game.I think anyone making a read of those posts is being silly. I don't care if someone starts with a few trolly posts, at all. If those posts tell me ANYTHING important, then I should be examined. Others may get something from them, but I don't at all. To me, they're trolly posts, they don't mean anything, and I disagree that scum Foolishness is a big trollface at the start of games.I don't care at all that someone has a vote on someone he doesn't want to lynch. No. About 3, I think it's telling about OTHERS and not about Foolishness. People who thought Foolishness was cool for his reads, but then haven't gone back to update their reads on Foolishness after saying Prome or HF look better/different/whatever, look slightly worse. Do I know if any of those people exist? No. But you're right that anyone who was weighing Foolishness's reads in his favor OUGHT to be reweighing foolishness if their own reads on Prome/HF/whoever have changed. Also, what's up with you and chatting? I thought WOS had an obsession with it, but you seem to be OCD about it wtf For me the big thing about austin is that he's here posting. In the first 12 ish hours of the game he was absent. Then he came in and started posting and his initial posts were okay. Nothing good or horribly town but nothing horribly mafia. My thoughts were that if he continues to post and be active he's town, if not then he's mafia. Similar to sandroba. From what I know about Austin (which isn't that much) he likes to make good, long posts with lots of analysis, similar to a Foolishness or Kitaman. For him it'd be very easy to just post a few times and peace out until his name is brought up again. This is what a mafia Austin would do. But he's here and he's posting, and from the two posts I quoted it's definitely clear that he's speaking his mind and trying to get things done. Austin said this in the last big post I quoted: I don't care at all that someone has a vote on someone he doesn't want to lynch. No. About 3, I think it's telling about OTHERS and not about Foolishness. People who thought Foolishness was cool for his reads, but then haven't gone back to update their reads on Foolishness after saying Prome or HF look better/different/whatever, look slightly worse. Do I know if any of those people exist? No. But you're right that anyone who was weighing Foolishness's reads in his favor OUGHT to be reweighing foolishness if their own reads on Prome/HF/whoever have changed. A very good point. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 05:33 gonzaw wrote: Foolishness, who of these 2 is mafia? sandroba marvellosity Assume you HAVE to pick ONLY ONE of them. Which one do you pick and why? Marvellosity. He's posted a bunch and hasn't done anything. Can you tell me without looking at his filter something that marvellosity has done for the town this game? + Show Spoiler + The real answer to your question is "both" On January 23 2014 05:38 WaveofShadow wrote: But I am in no way convinced about Prome by your earlier case, like, at all. Your return simply makes me want to lynch you less. Are you going to vote for HolyFlare then? | ||
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Foolishness
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On January 23 2014 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah...I'm in agreement with a lot of marv stuff from his filter, and the timing at which he posted stuff. One thing that stuck out is the above. I'm wondering why marv gave me a ??? at that point considering it seems likely he thought I was town before that from his attitude towards me. Meh..maybe not. And then this comes after my return I guess I expect marv to know...I dunno...more about me? Maybe why I was shocked he found me scummy in those games because I don't believe i've shifted my meta all that much in between games, and town-marv always seems to find me town eventually for all the right reasons. Yeah....would not lynch, but marv you left me high and dry---our palaver did not quench my thirst for you this game. (And it's basically become tradition at this point) I'm not upset with any of Marv's individual posts, but his overall play so far. | ||
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Foolishness
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On January 23 2014 05:49 kitaman27 wrote: I think marv, sandroba, Prom is my personal top three right now. If foolishness is mafia with someone like VE/Holy, he is doing a great job at appealing to my interests XD I already said that I'm prefectly okay with HolyFlare getting lynched. And by perfectly okay, I really mean okay. As in, if guys are that convinced that Promethelax needs another chance then please let me know now so I can move my vote. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 05:53 WaveofShadow wrote: There's a lot of 'overall play' I'm disappointed with atm, Prome included to some degree. Does it make those people scum? No, but Marvellosity is known for getting things done on day 1. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:07 gonzaw wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088&user=SuckMyTopdeck Read his filter there (he's hydra with SnB), and tell me if it changes your read on him or not. Not sure how much a Hydra game will affect posting behavior (it definitely does). Sure it makes me feel better about marvellosity I'll give you that. I didn't say I'm ready to drop the hammer on him. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=424349&user=austinmcc&view=all That's a game where Austin is mafia, though it is a crazy game. There's absolutely none of the long posts we've seen from him in the current game. He writes lots of one liners and will make the occasional two paragraph post, but there is nothing about his reads or feelings. | ||
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