EPTAlso, no Jayce makes me sad
PYP: League of Legends Mafia
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Also, no Jayce makes me sad | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Given that Yorick and Graves are getting the discussion they should I will move onto janna. She is single handedly one of the best options for mafia to use in the game hands down. Anything that protects from vig shots as well as amplifying the damage someone does is absolutely scarey. Factor in this would be a perfect pairing to any scum kp user. It should be removed. ##vote Janna Seriously this role in conjunction to any kp role is just insane. Currently I see the bans we should be making is One of Yorick/graves (prefer yorick given that a 1 shot janitor is bad but the theme of his character could also easily give him kp/ability to resurrect someone. Graves would likely have kp attached to his framing. One of Janna / Urgot. Each one has the ability to amplify damage done. Either of these could be insane in the hands of mafia with the information we have currently been given, and the abilities both possess in LoL itself would be insanely powerful in mafia hands. Then one of Evelyn and karthus. One is a semi dt immune vig and one is a multi target vig usable during the day / night. Karthus is likely going to have some death delay ability/more kp, and Evelyn has whatever shennigans she can do. Denying a group of these from mafia and dictating where the others end up falling in the draft order are likely the best approaches. One thing I think people should remember given what the OP says is all the roles listed have some hidden abilities no one knows about. (it says the roles listed are roughly half of what they are capable of). Given that It is imperative that we ban the correct roles now. Given most roles seem to follow the theme of the character and we are already aiming to ban yorick/graves we should be concentrating on roles now that are either things that amplify damage, or have a crazy ton of damage already. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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As we don't have a plan in place to have everyone claim their #'s in thread at this point and unlikely to hear from everyone before deadline on this due to thanksgiving weekend in the US I think its safer to claim at the end of the draft. Doing so before hand imo only helps the mafia. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On December 01 2013 06:36 Koshi wrote: Are we sure that mafia kp can be increased by heroes like jana? Last time we had this hp system was in GoT and that mafia KP was not delivered by a member. 1) Does mafia KP need to be delivered by a member. 2) Is mafia KP RBable Even if it doesn't synergize with mafia KP it synergizes with KP roles. If I was to hazard a guess mafia would attempt to at least grab some kp roles thus giving them a role that lets them make a vig stronger is something I'd like to avoid. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On December 01 2013 06:42 Koshi wrote: meh, I feel like we should ban heroes that town will never pick but are good for scummers. Jana is not the worst hero for town. It's a doc. true. Its one of the reasons I said janna or urgot. Either or. As far as I see it they are the only two that amp kp unless I missed one. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Now. Honestly I do agree with bum that we should be selecting roles that the top 7 players choose. This is purely to make sure the roles that are hugely important are well, known. However I disagree with his list a bit. I honestly think warwick is not as much of a threat as he thinks it is. Why? Because it requires active knowledge of peoples roles for mafia to use it properly. It is a role that late game the mafia perhaps could use if people start claiming or what not but honestly I believe in a pyp setup no one should really ever claim unless they are 100% dead to a lynch. IMO only the people in the top 7 slots should be claiming in the event that they attempt to take their allotted role and they don't get it. IE someone in the list above them sniped the role and let theirs drop down to someone else. As such Number 1 pick should be Viktor. The inventor role is crazy strong in the hands of mafia or town, but knowing who has the role is insanely important. Number 2 should be Kassadin Number 3 should be Heimerdinger Number 4 should be Tryndamere Number 5 should be Singed Number 6 should be Janna Number 7 should be Blitzcrank Past this people should be assessing what would be the best pick at their number. Denying mafia roles, attempting to take investigative, medic, vet like, etc... will all depend on your style of play and your strengths. If you are a analyzer you should be saving yourself, taking a dt role or a gun to kill your reads. If you are good at the long haul play go for things that keep you alive, or keep others alive, etc.. Those 7 roles I think are by far the most important to lock down. For anyone who asks why singed and blitzcrank? Moving people around the list lets other players do more or less. Mafia having control of them, or a majority of them could potentially fuck us hard. Also knowing whos causing damage / playing with the list I think is incredibly important information to have. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On December 02 2013 06:07 Risen wrote: I swear there are roles that punish role claiming More importantly. Roles do not equal alignment in these setups. Just cause someone as a "pro scum" role doesn't make them pro scum or someone with a pro town role make them town. Pyp is a game where someones actions are the most important. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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On December 02 2013 06:26 bumatlarge wrote: I had just skimmed through the PYP2 game. I might have been jealous of Radfield... just a little....  still. Its been proposed in some way in almost every pyp if not every pyp game. I think going past the top 10 is stretching what you can expect people to follow. Even going to the 10th is pushing it a bit. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Claiming is situational and a mass claim does not help the town anywhere near as much as it helps mafia. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On December 02 2013 23:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also this is what bothered the most in BC's post to me: I would love if mafia offed people based on their roles and not based on who is a good analyst. Even when everyone is blue what wins the game is when people find scum. Lesser analysts are far likely to trust wrong people and do anti-town stuff / make bad decisions with whatever role they have. As scum i would love to see some poor townie have a vigilante role, then shoot 3 townies and after that get lynched for it. Just caught up on the thread and will respond to this as its nicely at the end. PyP games are well, retarded as fuck. I have also experienced the games that regardless of how good of an analyst you are, and how many times you can lead town to the correct lynch/vig shot. They will still for whatever reason herp derp horribly and given how OP some roles are only a blue or a combination of blues can easily deal with the mafia. PyP 3 comes to mind as one of the most retarded games I have ever seen. Ask Bum, he was scum i was town. I as an analyst had basically the entire mafia team outed by day 3-4ish, and town proceeded to attempt to kill me 2 nights in a row for retarded reasons. The third party in that game also killed as many mafia as town did basically. My reasons for not wanting mass claims is we don't know if for instance a scum player has a role that is basically the Prince of Darkness role, or a vote rigger role, etc... that could let them end days instantly. This early in the game you have to assume until people start busting out their hidden power that mafia have the potential to autokill/mass damage a player based on their role, roleblock tons, fuck with votes, etc... You are right that strong analyzers are required and if all mafia does is blue snipe that leaves them a huge window to play however based on what the roles could be we may need those blue roles to win. Mass claiming before we have an idea of what powers the mafia has is dumb. Farther down the road when its slightly more clear with that they can do its not as bad but straight out of the gates its asking for a clusterfuck of chaos. Now on to other things Bum - Why didn't you take tryndamere like you wanted? The idea of everyone in the top 10 more or less taking the roles you outlined was pretty non existent and the person originally slated to take the role you changed to having his own plan. So why didn't you take the role you wanted? IE I am curious to know how apparently LSB got it when hes the last person in the draft order. Bum as for your case on Jcarls, I like it except for the first post you opted to use for it. Primarily because I don't think its likely for mafia to point out how good synergy of combos like blitz/nid are. I recognize that you said that post is what put him on your radar but its a very odd post to have come up when everything in it honestly feels town to me. IE my only issue with your case is where it started from. All the other points you raise seem good, but the initial starting place to me seems well, weird. Risen His play in this game so far compared to LXIII is completely diff. He started off the game with analyzing and asking questions in LXIII while here he has contributed absolutely nothing of value. This strikes me as completely weird and could very likely be scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436086&user=Risen http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434275&user=Risen | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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On December 03 2013 03:56 LSB wrote: Lastly I'm going to policy vote Bum for not following through with what he was pushing. Just for a point of reference in PYP2 (i think), I was SK and I pushed heavily a plan, and I deviated from it as a way to attempt to make sure I was invincible. ##Vote: Bumatlarge It was pyp3 and you kinda had to follow through on the plan you pushed given that you started pushing it before the game started | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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On December 03 2013 04:25 VisceraEyes wrote: You just claimed VT. Are you saying you arent sharing who you picked? I just claimed not janna. Currently I am not who I got, I will claim it by day end / night end. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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On December 24 2013 04:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Picks and bans were handled pretty poorly by the scumteam and they were very uncoordinated throughout the beginning of the game. There was no synergy in their roles, a lot of powerful roles (imo) were not even considered by the scumteam, and a massclaim plan may very well have screwed them over at some point. For the record I would probably be one of those players who refuses to claim as town in a PYP. Takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, and as such there were roles and mechanics included that would punish or mostly prevent a massclaim from working perfectly. WW was a huge role for either town or scum as you guys know, but the role...*ahem* exited the game early. If people have specific questions about stuff that happened/setup stuff I can answer when I get the chance. I think the bans were done fairly well but the picks were horrible. I tried to get people to choose roles but inactivity totally fubared that phase of the game. Getting ziggs, malz, and evelyn I thought were insanely awesome but wukong as a role didn't really help us a bit. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On December 24 2013 07:45 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah it's pretty funny how that worked out. Wukong wasn't a great role for scum in comparison to many others and yet it worked out about as well as MZ could have hoped. The bans were alright in that most of the investigative roles were eliminated; alternatively as kita mentioned you guys could have gone more RB-heavy (or even KP heavy). As it was you had some decent KP values compared to town---I was actually pretty surprised at how low town KP was given the amount of *possible* KP roles  Note to myself for later: I want to write about the roles people discussed regarding picks/bans. I wanted to stack kp roles. However each of us early game had a ton of stuff on our plate and could barely find time to be around to get things going. Was a shame we only got 3 kp roles. Also a shame that apparently onegu didn't realize why I thought malz was so OP and thus wasn't able to get the best use from the role. | ||
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) We really want to have all these roles, so I suggest the next 7 slots take them. This does make them susceptible to KP so here's what I would do. Flip a coin to determine if you would get the town blue or a vet. This way, mafia would have a rough time killing off our medic/DT section if there is a 50% of them being vets. I would say these roles would do nicely.
