EPTFor reals this time
Witchcraft Mini Mafia II
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
For reals this time | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On November 04 2013 14:53 EchelonTee wrote: On your point A, not wanting to talk about setup isn't necessarily scummy. Scum people love talking about setup because it allows them to stick in a lot of words without pressuring people. Look at me in Hogwarts. Your point B I somewhat agree with. What are you talking about? Your reasoning for not voting is that other people could sheep onto you without giving input. The problem with that reasoning is as follows: 1.) You state that you have a "really big scum read on Umasi". 2.) If you have a big scum read on someone, it follows that you should want them lynched. 3.) If you vote them and people sheep on to you, those people are helping exact the lynch that you want. If you have a big scum read someone, why do you have a problem with people agreeing with your read? Is your read on Umasi actually not "really big"? This doesn't make sense. Gumshoe, you'd better start talking soon because in your last game (GoT Mafia) you said practically nothing and got vig'd N1 as a VT. I'd not like a repeat. Ask and you shall receive ( : First things first, Vanesco! Just cause you think one way is the only way to play doesn't mean it actually is. I have no reason to vote currently. There are still many people who have yet to post and it seems like an easy thing to just sheep on somebody else's vote without having to give much input. We are never going to gain anything just sitting around and making jokes all day. These lines along with his original that set the thread on fire are fiercely independent, and he continues to spout more like them even as hes pressed. Theres been virtually no change/improvement in his play and he is standing by his original reckless read. I don't even feel a hint of concession from him, in other words it doesn't feel like he's been at all coached or reprimanded by his team. Nooby scum players tend to improve much faster because of that immediate aid and even though it's just day 1 I'm seeing none of that. His style rings of naivety and stubbornness, but not stupidity or malice. That said even if we are to assume hes a nooby green we should not be so quick to just disregard his opinion from now on, ruining credibility while soft defending someone is a viable scum tactic and I will have none of it. On that note my primary scum read right now is Wos. Not because he immediately sheeped Umasi regarding Vanesco, thats null, I find him scummy due to the manner in which he took his vote off Vanesco. I REALLY fucking hope this doesn't bite me in the ass but Vanesco is now exhibiting a little more of what I was waiting for. Essentially Vanesco, whether or not he has played on other forums or whatever boils down to either noob scum or noob town. An experienced player would not need attempt to earnestly call people out simply to 'get the game going' without dropping a vote or taking a hard stance, whether pressure-vote or not. I redact my earlier scumread on him and (hopefully this doesn't bite me in the ass) he is now noob town. It would be fine if he was just absolving Vanesco, what bugs me is that hesitance, or rather how it sounds like Wos wouldn't really be suprised if Vanesco was scum. It reads more to me as posturing rather than reluctance. He placed a vote early in hopes of building some momentum, and when that mometum dropped he got off the train but positioned himself so that if it ever got rolling again, he could hop right back on under the basis that he suspected Vanesco all along. Which is a safe bet when you take into account Vanesco's recklessness (which may yet get him lynched if no better targets present themselves). Also Wos's shambly defence does Vanesco no favours, because it requires us to assume that Vanesco is terrible and should be disregarded if hes town. Sometimes it's enough to just neuter a townie, because as we all know, useless can be just as bad as scummy. Wos a few questions. Vanesco is now exhibiting a little more of what I was waiting for When you originally attacked Vanesco, did you not actually think he was scum? Were you just trying to bait him and the thread? What did you think putting so much pressure on a noobie this early on would accomplish? Do you think Vanesco is scum for his actions or can he be town as well? Why do you feel the need to keep the discussion centered on a nooby players play? Do you really imagine that scum will reveal themselves by commenting on Vanesco? Or do you just feels theres nothing better to talk about in thread? Kk thats all for now in the finger pointing department, moving on to some strategy! In regards to the blue reveal after a cycle, dts by all means reveal right away(it doesnt matter if they die so long as they get their reads out, remember we dont actually "lose" blues this game). Doctors though should remain hidden, because while it is the express goal of dts to put information out there, a good doctor just has to save a target, there is no reason we should out successful or failed doctors. In general I advise that we allude as little as possible to the vote, if we out a blue they get roleblocked, if we announce what we want (ie 2 docs or 2 dts) than the mafia can react accordingly (for example striking with impunity if we have only dts.) So in the end with the exception of dt reads (which are blissfully assured this game) we should simply treat the vote as if it doesn't exist. Choose whoever you see fit, but if you can keep the votes roaming ( it's very easy for scum to gain a blue power and then effectively burn it by collectively shooting a none primary target and claiming they protected the primary one afterwards) also if you think you've stumbled upon a good doctor it goes without saying your vote should stay there(another reason to keep doc actions secret) Thats about it for now. Oh and I got a special coin specifically to decide from now on whether I play or lurk, and it happens to be double headed : P ##Vote WOS | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote: Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game. You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe? Why do I have to assume scum is playing bad? In fact this pond has been so shallow insofar, it's not really an accomplishment being the biggest fish. Speaking of accomplishments, I know the game hasnt gone on long enough but so far the biggest thing I've seen out of you is your waffling on Vanesco, and I've addresed that. Everything else you've said has been inconclusive, example I need to have a close look at hzflank honestly---I need to go look back at how he played his newbies; specifically the scum game I coached. Reading his filter I am not largely satisfied with his defense of the Umasi suspicion and he hasn't done much else, though I can understand being discouraged by all the of unwarranted attacks. (At least unwarranted in his view. On that note I really don't get your reaction to my perceived slight by hzflank, Onegu. I can definitely take care of myself and you really kinda flew off the handle. Was really bewildering o.O) There have been very few votes actually placed so far this game, and a minute amount of suspicion on very few targets so it seems to me to be advantageous for scum to simply be satisfied with the status quo thus far and not move suspicion off of the targets who are already under question somewhat, both of whom I believe to be town presently. Random thought/stream-of-consciousness (since I was reading hzflank's setup analysis which I liked): Would it ever be worth it to simply claim blue roles during the day? Yes we will lose someone immediately I suppose but is that an acceptable risk if it means we can track role usage (assuming no mis-elections I suppose)? It may not be worth it I guess if we fuck up bad and elect multiple scum since they can lie about getting RBed and implicate a towny in a 2scum 1town election scenario---yeah come to think of it I think it all falls apart if we fuck up and elect scum since they can lie about checks as well, and the nature of the checks makes it a hell of a lot easier to lie (regarding something like Blaspheme, for example). Your all over the place in this particular post, saying you find hz suspicious and then talking about how you liked his setup analysis play later on, also you just sort of acknowledging the stagnation of this thread and let it rest at that... Nothing in here is really of any use, theres no hard cases or defences, it just feels like your pointing us in a direction you yourself havent even bothered to fully take yet. In general it feels like your spreading suspicion around hoping some one picks up on something. Also this point If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion. My theory is that hes town and your scum, his actions and responses to yours do not absolve you in any way. Stubborn and independent does not equal attack someone who defends you... Your play just feels to tip toey for my liking, yes your active but in a cautious way and I dont consider town WOs the most careful of players. Also it's funny you find yourself transparent... I dont get that vibe at all, if you are town your baiting scum hard and while that may be smart and pro town it's certainly not honest, so I dont know where your getting this idea of yourself. Btw wheres the voting thread. | ||
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gumshoe
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gumshoe
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Furthermore I'm not a fan of this stuff right here. I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on It reads as if you've already thought of all the holes in your play, you argue thats because noobies make for your most difficult reads but you've transfered that hesitance into play that coincidentally matches that of a cautious scum player anticipating every blow that comes their way. This combined with your many wishy washy posts and your aproach to vanesco is more than enough reason for me to suspect you. | ||
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gumshoe
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gumshoe
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On November 05 2013 01:27 WaveofShadow wrote: lololol the floodgates have opened! Bring it on, hataz. Sn0---my only scumgame was probably the game with the lowest proportional activity in my history, though to be fair I did that calculation last ages ago, and one scumgame does not a meta make. Onegu - opportunistic as fuck. You're all over me and liking what I do and now that gumshoe posts some walls you turn on me like a rabid dog. Don't make me put you down. Come to think of it, 'rabid dog' is a good example for you turning on hzflank too. You're rubbin' me all sorts of 'the wrong way' all of a sudden. I'm not surprised no one has called me out, I was surprised no one called me out SPECIFICALLY about the point regarding the 'bite-me-in-the-ass/wishy-washiness' because it's a really easy 'case' to make as town or scum and people do that shit all the time to contribute. Requires very little effort. And please, activity is certainly not my only defense; why is that the only thing you felt was relevant enough to comment on? Let's hear you come up with something this game that someone else hasn't done first, then we can talk, k boyo? Gumshoe I will address your recent stuff a little later when I have more time; i like discussing with you so it would be nice to get you off of my case so we can go somewhere productive. Never mind, even if you are scum for whatever reason you seem invested in this game. Dont waste time addressing an argument thats probably not valid (lol you already did nice XD) Besides if your scum you'll trip yourself up eventually if you keep posting like this / : Now,even though I actually did find those things you did fishy... I wasn't entirely honest regarding the intent of that case... Onegu, ObviusOne, SnO_Man. Meet the peanut gallery. None of them actually agree or disagree with my theory, which is fine because it's mediocre at best, but no doubt at least one of them is scum. Onegu swooped in and attacked WOS directly while ignoring the bulk of my wall of text and picking out one contradiction in WOs's play. For those without the time to go back and read his post, it looked something like this. And WoS how can you go on about being so active when we are only 18~ hours into the game and only 6 pages in, your defense makes zero sense. And how can you go from Im suprised no one has called me out, to I cant believe you think I could be scum. I hate this post for two reasons, 1: It starts with and. 2: It's exceptionally non commital, it doesnt aknoledge the argument present in thread at all, it just feels like Onegu is using my case as a reason to throw shit at WOS, something I cant really imagine a townie doing. As for his play, it involves alot of whining (sorry Onegu it's true ) : ) abrupt character assassination, and not much valid analysis at all. Hes just hanging around... giving people shit when he can, would not be against lynching him. Obvius One's play is a little harder to get a grip on Plus I want people nice and comfortable so they will talk more. Feels like a really slow start. Totes allowed to change my mind later. The absence of goofing around? Or what? I am easy to read. Filter length is 100% accurate indicator. Scum OO is still a scaredy-cat. Pants-on-head may also be used as a town indicator in lieu of filter length. That takes a bit more time to assess though. Theres alot of silliness in his filter from the start. Which is understandable, whats annoying is his actual posting is not obvious at all... these are the only two posts hes made all game with content. If you put Syl on the defensive by attacking for activity you are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of his lynch. That's just how it works with Syl. Try seeing what Syl does proactively first before you go all bat-shit with this. If you don't know Syl's MO then I'll make it one sentence for you: both alignments he ends up defending his activity to death and never gets the chance to do actual scum hunting. Therefore by leaving Syl to his devices you will more quickly get a feel for mindset and goals than cornering him. This is specific to Syl only but you can check out some past games to see what I mean. A scum one was This Town Ain't Big Enough mafia if I recall correctly. Please don't make it harder than it needs to be to get a read on Syl. It wasn't like a huge ass town read I got from it, just a leaning away from default null (unless you count my earlier joke about how all'a'y'all be scum). It's an interesting thing to track as the game progresses but most importantly it's day one and I'm establishing base-line reads. That doesn't mean I agree with Umasi's case or your sheeping of it but it's a nugget I extracted from it. It's interesting that you contest me on this, but that idea leads to WIFOM city so I'll not bother you with that. Whats interesting about these posts is they're both working themselves to standstills. It might be thats because hes playing defensive, but his conclusions and hopes for both of these conversations are alarmingly moderate...as if hes just trying to keep grip of the statues quo on the matters of syl and WOS. You could say hes the anti Vanesco XD. Also hes recently come out against Sno and has yet to provide his own reasons... Which brings us to Sno! He joined the game along side me, and basically has no posts to his name. Despite all that I'm leaning town on him because of his brazen entrance so late in the cycle. It's a gut thing, not much to go on him just yet and I rather he not be on the defensive right away. Oh and people wanted me to look at Hz! Null, if you wanna lynch a lurker (I consider anyone with under two pages at this moment, myself included, a lurker) hes the top choice because he came into the game with something to prove(hence the game analysis), then backed off when things got rough blaming it on cultural differences. His reads were a solid meh, despite that or perhaps because of it I am reading null on him, and I would rather keep him around at least till tomorrow to see how his play develops. You cant deny there was at least a touch of promise to it. Right now I feel like lynching into Unegu/ obvius one. They seem to be the most likely culprits based off their shoddy posting and reactions to my wall of text. Now I seriusly need to leave, later all, gl. | ||
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gumshoe
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gumshoe
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gumshoe
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I suggest rather taking a gander at the rats that scurried out right after my case, sno oo and onegu, what do you feel regarding them? Oh and sorry all if my posting quality will be lower tonight, phones are hard. | ||
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gumshoe
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On November 05 2013 11:26 ObviousOne wrote: You wrote the word bus in a game with unflipped players holy fuck I stopped reading there. I won Smurf Mini as mafia (MAD PROPS TO MY HOME BOY BLAZINGHAND AKA SIR ECCLESTON THE AWESOME) by building a house of cards and remaining as consistent as possible throughout the entire game. I essentially knew how I was getting to end game by the end of D3. So your generalities doesn't hold much weight with me. Tell me specific generalities about WoS scum meta and how they relate to his play here, not just general stuff and how it applies to WoS. I wanna lynch you so bad it hurts T-T | ||
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gumshoe
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Your posting makes me want to growl at my dog, I love my dog ) : why are you doing this to me. | ||
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gumshoe
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On November 05 2013 11:35 ObviousOne wrote: We should discuss my scum read and yours with one another in such a way that I don't want to start posting gifs. You can start by not insinuating I am scum without ample reasoning and extrapolating your scum suspects with some general bullet points as well as your thoughts on Sn0 who I intend to lynch today. Alright it's a duel ( : can't really type right now, expect a detailed case in 11 hours, some bullet points though, your speedy bemused response to my wos post, the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago, the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre, and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless. Also I don't mind gifs if I'm allowed videos. | ||
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gumshoe
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Night all, good hunting. | ||
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gumshoe
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On November 05 2013 12:43 WaveofShadow wrote: /agreed. Who thinks you're scum again this game? I froget. Me, I also don't think umasi is scum, just stupid. | ||
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gumshoe
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On November 05 2013 12:44 ObviousOne wrote: Sn0 and gumshoe, neither really has much on me and neither has really responded to my requests. Sn0 went to sleep presumably and gumshoe is phone posting with promises for participation later. Slow. Fuckin. Day. Had a teaser back there, care to pick it apart while I fade away? | ||
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gumshoe
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On November 05 2013 13:02 ObviousOne wrote: gumshoe's points against me your speedy bemused response to my wos post not sure which post you're talking about here, i have a lot of posts. I don't see anything responding directly to you so you'll have to link. Speedy/Bemused are likely to come from town or mafia? Town OO has nobody's back to cover / names to remember, everything is organic. I am personally more likely to make off the cuff remarks as town and less likely as scum, you can check my past games which are in my profile if you wish to verify. the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago Exceedingly neutral, I'm guessing you mean the post in the early hours of the game where I said something about letting people warm up to playing the game before going all-out with accusations? I don't see how that's scummy unless you're going to bite me for a wait-and-see attitude a few hours into the game. the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre I must be doing SOMETHING right if I'm not under heavy suspicion. The first tenet of being town is to establish innocence. The second tenet of being town is to not get lynched. The third tenet of being town is that once the first two are met, you might find scum. ♥Palmar♥ Why should my style be more suspicious than hiding in the shadows? I am genuinely interested in playing and if you do the meta you can see I'm not bullshitting about being askeered to post as mafia. I mentioned it in the scum QT for Aperture Episode 2, even. and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless If he's just a straight up lurker, it's Day 1 and we have no Vig so on top of my points against Sn0 you are demonstrating that it may be necessary to lynch him to remove all doubt. Yeah, this makes too much sense, I apologize for wasting both our time. No point drumming up a larger waste of time, I see little reason to keep pursuing you as a viable lynch. I still rather lych onegu because if sno is scum his play is just meh, but I can see Onegus style working from a scum perspective. Basicaly I'm going under the basis that scum is competent, Onegus style has a chance to make everyone sorta glaze over him due to his pain, it's also a good excuse for his abscence. There would be no excuse for scum snos style. | ||
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gumshoe
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On November 05 2013 13:13 WaveofShadow wrote: Be fair, afaik Onegu has NEVER used his condition as an excuse as to his play. He's a straight up guy. Ugh gumshoe why would you apologise like that? As town you're not wasting anyone's time if you're trying to get better reads on someone. Glahhhh quick do something positive please so I can shake the horrible vibe you just gave me. You can't tell but right now I'm using my caring face, it shows how much I care. | ||
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gumshoe
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gumshoe
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but No lynches kinda suck. ##Unvote ##Vote HZ | ||
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