• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:49
CET 00:49
KST 08:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 993 users

Call to Action: June 14 Balance Testing

Forum Index > SC2 General
625 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 30 31 32 Next All
SamirDuran
Profile Joined May 2012
Philippines894 Posts
June 14 2013 18:28 GMT
#1
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/10223258/call-to-action-june-14-balance-testing-6-14-2013

We’ve just published a new custom version of Derelict Watcher, called "Derelict Watcher TE (2.0.8 Balance v1.1)", in which we’re testing small balance changes to StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm. This map features slightly reduced numbers for the Warp Prism changes found in the previous version we published on May 30, as well as a few changes we’d like to try out for the Hellbat and Banshee. Today, we’d like to share the new adjustments we’ll be testing, as well as a few thoughts from the StarCraft II Balance Team on each change.

Protoss

Warp Prism
Movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953 (previously 2.5 to 3.375.)
Acceleration increased from 2.125 to 2.625 (previously 2.125 to 3.25.)
The Gravitic Drive upgrade has returned to the Robotics Bay and will increase movement speed to 3.375 and acceleration to 3.25 when researched.
Thank you for playing on the previous balance test map. We heard your feedback and agree that completely rolling the Gravitic Drive upgrade in to the Warp Prism is probably too big of a change. The pro players we contacted for extra balance testing generally agreed that this change does make Warp Prism harass a lot more effective from an earlier point of time. Therefore, we’d like to try a lesser version of these changes in today’s balance test map. We’re still watching to find out if Protoss is in fact slightly weaker than the other two races at the highest skill levels, and if this turns out to be the case, we’ll likely go with a smaller change such as this one.

Terran

Hellbat
Attack damage decreased from 18 +12 vs. light to 18.
The Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade increases attack damage from 18 to 18 +12 vs. light.
We’re haven’t decided whether or not Hellbat drops are a problem yet. It’s looking like it could be, so we’d like to try a nerf in this balance test map.

Banshee
Cloaking Field research cost decreased from 200/200 to 100/100
Cloaking Field research time decreased from 110 seconds to 90.
We don’t feel the overall strength of Terran is an issue at this point, and Terrans aren’t overperforming by any means, but we’d like to compensate the Hellbat nerf with another buff. While we’d like to see fewer Hellbat drops, we don’t want Terran to suffer because of it. Also, we think it would be cool for Terran players have a variety of harassment options. Whenever we saw awesome banshee usage in the past, those games were exciting to watch and we believe having a reduced cost for Banshee tech will allow Terran players to utilize them more easily.

Though it will be pinned to the top of the Custom Games list, we’d like to remind you that this rendition of the test map is called "Derelict Watcher TE (2.0.8 Balance v1.1)." Make sure to pay close attention to the map’s title before you hit that “Start Game” button in the game lobby, so you can be certain you’re testing the latest changes found in version 1.1 of the test map.

Once again, these aren’t final changes, and we’re looking for feedback that is based on playtesting. After you’ve thoroughly tested the changes listed above, please join us in this discussion thread.

Thank you very much!


Poll: Warp Prism Change

Yes (1091)
 
65%

No (577)
 
35%

1668 total votes

Your vote: Warp Prism Change

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No



Poll: Hellbat Change?

Yes (1593)
 
85%

No (279)
 
15%

1872 total votes

Your vote: Hellbat Change?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No



Poll: Banshee Change?

No (1229)
 
54%

Yes (1067)
 
46%

2296 total votes

Your vote: Banshee Change?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No





Facebook Twitter Reddit
Don't practice until you can get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.
Hypemeup
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden2783 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 18:46:02
June 14 2013 18:28 GMT
#2
Cloak buff is insane. 1Gas Banshee openings are possible now? It will be so fucking hard to read what people are doing now in tvt.

Still better then hellbats per minute now and it does not gimp hellbats in straight up fights. Blue flame change does seem fair, it is an effective way to reduce how effective Hellbat drops are.

I dont understand why they insist on changing the WP.
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
June 14 2013 18:29 GMT
#3
Yeah, this is just going to make TvT even worse imo. Both sides going cloakshee into raven isn't much better than hellbat opening...
Tobblish
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden6404 Posts
June 14 2013 18:31 GMT
#4
Yes!
Lets replace Hellbats with Banshee rushes
Warp Prisms everywhere, all those allins that will be created because of this buff.. T_T

Still want to know why changing so the Hellbat cant get loaded into the Medivac isn't a option.
Design or Balance problem???
The curse is real
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1341 Posts
June 14 2013 18:31 GMT
#5
awesome changes! also so awesome to see they care about making zerg more fun to play and test all that nydus/drop/hydra/corruptor/overseer/neural parasite stuff that would make zerg fun to play! like it a lot!
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
June 14 2013 18:32 GMT
#6
The Banshee buff is insane
You can go cloack banshee with only one gas now, and get an earlier command center. There's no way people will not always open banshee in TvT now.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Digitalis
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1043 Posts
June 14 2013 18:33 GMT
#7
Cloak buff is indeed insane, going to fuck with TvT the most since now in HotS you can see the scan area making banshee micro infinitely easier than in WoL.
Utopi
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark176 Posts
June 14 2013 18:34 GMT
#8
The biggest problem is that Hellbats can be healed.
no.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 14 2013 18:34 GMT
#9
Sure, I will take it. I hate banshees with the white hot fire of 1000 suns, but we have so much detection now and the cannon, I don't mind a bit of a buff.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
June 14 2013 18:37 GMT
#10
Move blue flame upgrade to armory and I like the change.
EpiK
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5757 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 18:38:59
June 14 2013 18:38 GMT
#11
let the banshees be =/
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
June 14 2013 18:41 GMT
#12
hmm hellbat change sounds like a good idea. 150/150 might've been better for the banshee cloak though since 100/100 is dirt cheap lol. Liked the decrease in build time as well, more viable. As for wrap prism, well, I don't think it's not a bad idea but it sounds too fast XD
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
June 14 2013 18:42 GMT
#13
If they are going to be changing hellbats, they need to compensate, but I just don't understand the hellbat nerf. In the least they should reduce the cost of preigniter.
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria923 Posts
June 14 2013 18:44 GMT
#14
Not sure I agree with Banshee change but glad to see HB nerfs.. Even if only slight.
Livin' this life like it was written.
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
June 14 2013 18:45 GMT
#15
PLEASE Blizzard! Hellbat DROPS are the problem >>> nerf damage. People who mix in hellbats instead of mines (TvZ) in their army, get nerfed. The drops will still happen, but hellbat instead of mines in your army is dead as hell. I can't believe this . This is just a nerf to hellbat in army, not hellbat drops imo.

Cloack: this makes tvt a bigger coinflip. Is that good?
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 18:48:07
June 14 2013 18:47 GMT
#16
Please tell me I'm getting trolled:

Banshee
Cloaking Field research cost decreased from 200/200 to 100/100
Cloaking Field research time decreased from 110 seconds to 90.

Whyyyyyyyy?!

(Full disclosure: I've already switched to Terran so this my concern for TvT).
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 18:49:35
June 14 2013 18:48 GMT
#17
On June 15 2013 03:45 Snowbear wrote:
PLEASE Blizzard! Hellbat DROPS are the problem >>> nerf damage. People who mix in hellbats instead of mines (TvZ) in their army, get nerfed. The drops will still happen, but hellbat instead of mines in your army is dead as hell. I can't believe this . This is just a nerf to hellbat in army, not hellbat drops imo.

Cloack: this makes tvt a bigger coinflip. Is that good?


What, this nerfs early hellbat drops though.

Edit: Just checked, you wont be able to two hit workers.

I like the changes, Warp prism good, Hellbat is pretty good and Banshee could turn out good, depends if banshees become the go to unit.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 18:52:35
June 14 2013 18:48 GMT
#18
I cannot fathom why Blizzard feels the need to "compensate" Terran by buffing a totally unrelated tech. You nerf something because it is too strong. You buff something because it is too weak. There is no need to buff cloak (which is fine) in order to compensate for fixing overpowered hellbats.

Blizzard seems to acknowledge that Protoss may be the weakest race, and the best the company can do is a minor warp prism speed buff? The funny thing is that the totally non-sequitur cloak buff is probably more powerful than the minor warp prism speed buff. IMO, the only way to fix Protoss is to (1) give a minor buff to gateway units, (2) give a minor nerf to warpgate cooldown time, and (3) nerf forcefields by making them destructible objects with hitpoints.
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
June 14 2013 18:49 GMT
#19
On June 15 2013 03:48 Targe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2013 03:45 Snowbear wrote:
PLEASE Blizzard! Hellbat DROPS are the problem >>> nerf damage. People who mix in hellbats instead of mines (TvZ) in their army, get nerfed. The drops will still happen, but hellbat instead of mines in your army is dead as hell. I can't believe this . This is just a nerf to hellbat in army, not hellbat drops imo.

Cloack: this makes tvt a bigger coinflip. Is that good?


What, this nerfs early hellbat drops though.

I like the changes, Warp prism good, Hellbat is pretty good and Banshee could turn out good, depends if banshees become the go to unit.


Imagine you are a terran that doesn't want to play marine mine, and you prefer hellbat marine. This is nerfed and done. Meanwhile speedvac + hellbat harass is still possible, and will still do a shitton of damage.
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
June 14 2013 18:49 GMT
#20
if you want to promote banshees without going for such a drastic change, just merge banshee and ghost cloak. It will promote both without breaking the meta.
Terran & Potato Salad.
1 2 3 4 5 30 31 32 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
23:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17
ReBellioN vs HiGhDrA
Shameless vs Demi
LetaleX vs Mute
Percival vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings66
Liquipedia
BSL 21
20:00
ProLeague - RO32 Group B
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
ZZZero.O147
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 300
ProTech129
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 580
ZZZero.O 147
NaDa 16
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1576
Other Games
Grubby4828
FrodaN1944
B2W.Neo542
fl0m488
Pyrionflax421
Liquid`Hasu186
Maynarde125
ForJumy 31
JuggernautJason14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1372
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 80
• RyuSc2 62
• HeavenSC 30
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 19
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2878
• Ler66
League of Legends
• imaqtpie3181
Other Games
• Scarra456
Upcoming Events
OSC
9h 11m
Wardi Open
12h 11m
Wardi Open
16h 11m
Replay Cast
23h 11m
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 12h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.