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The video game youtuber Alanah Pearce has written a piece on the sexism she encounters online that I think is relevant to gaming culture, especially pertaining to the question why there aren't more females into video games and how this could be changed:
Quote:
Before I record the videos I create for various different companies I change my shirt from the loosely fitting singlet I usually wear during the day, to a high-collared t-shirt that will minimise my chances of being objectified. It’s less comfortable, it’s not what I would generally choose to wear, but I do it in attempt to avoid comments about my breasts, my chest, and my physique in general – I try to negate any harassment I possibly can.
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Obviously, it doesn’t work. Instead of having people disregard gender entirely as it really shouldn’t be relevant to a video about game news, there are streams of responses from men complaining that a woman hasn’t revealed herself to them, as though it’s expected or it’s their right to ask for that. Not only is this incredibly discouraging – these videos take hours and hours of effort to create – it’s easy to feel like you simply can’t win. You can only ignore the comments, but that would make responding to the pleasant viewers or the ones who ask genuine questions impossible.
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/04/30-days-of-sexism/
This will probably be nothing fundamentally new for most, but the examples she uses are really sickening and it's interesting to read abaut her thoughts and feelings when that stuff is posted. She makes the comparison to a normal office job, where something like that would be considered extreme cases of mobbing/harassment and would be a strong reason to quit your job if the situation can't be remedied. She also says that she has in fact considered leaving the community and that the posters who oppose the insulting ones (who are sometimes ridiculed as "white knights" I might add) are part of what kept her going so far.
If jerks on the internet are given a free-pass and allowed to hide behind anonymity when they’re being sexist to someone, then there’s absolutely no reason you can’t use that same anonymity to criticise or educate them. Honestly, just seeing one down-vote or having one person stick up for me is a part of the reason I’m still here and I’m not going to stop fighting. Every single person has the power to fight sexism.
This is maybe a good occasion to say thank you to the TL.net mods for doing a great job in keeping this site civil.
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There should be a filter to block out trolls. While the sexist ones are the most offensive, all trolls only do damage to our community. In any stream it's impossible to hold some serious discussion on the game being played because it's drown out in a sea of trolling not related to anything.
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It's sad what anonymity does to the people. Quite frankly, if I were a woman, I wouldn't actively engage in video gaming community.
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Before I record the videos I create for various different companies I change my shirt from the loosely fitting singlet I usually wear during the day, to a high-collared t-shirt that will minimise my chances of being objectified. It’s less comfortable, it’s not what I would generally choose to wear, but I do it in attempt to avoid comments about my breasts, my chest, and my physique in general – I try to negate any harassment I possibly can.
So you purposefully make yourself physically uncomfortable and repress a little of your sexuality because you're bothered by random internet users? Seriously? Are you new to the internet? Do you not understand how this thing works? That's like IdrA not playing StarCraft anymore because someone told him he's not a good player. lmao
Obviously, it doesn’t work. Instead of having people disregard gender entirely as it really shouldn’t be relevant to a video about game news, there are streams of responses from men complaining that a woman hasn’t revealed herself to them, as though it’s expected or it’s their right to ask for that. Not only is this incredibly discouraging – these videos take hours and hours of effort to create – it’s easy to feel like you simply can’t win. You can only ignore the comments, but that would make responding to the pleasant viewers or the ones who ask genuine questions impossible.
Nope. It's not impossible. Many people manage to ignore trolls and uneducated children, even on Twitch whose chat is a cancerous cesspool, or YouTube comments ffs.
If jerks on the internet are given a free-pass and allowed to hide behind anonymity when they’re being sexist to someone, then there’s absolutely no reason you can’t use that same anonymity to criticise or educate them. Honestly, just seeing one down-vote or having one person stick up for me is a part of the reason I’m still here and I’m not going to stop fighting. Every single person has the power to fight sexism.
Is this woman stupid? People on the internet are given a free-pass to do and say far more than just being sexist to some uptight, sensitive and easily-offended woman like her who apparently doesn't understand how the internet works or that you can't censor it.
I mean lmao, I'm not a big deal, but in my many years of competitive gaming I've had hundreds if not thousands of people call me a no-life, a basement dweller, a loser (all of which baseless assumptions ofc) and wishing things like death and cancer and rape on me and my family, JUST BECAUSE I BEAT THEM AT VIDEO GAMES. Do you think that affected me in any way, shape or form? No lol. I just laugh and brush it off, and it even makes me feel better about myself that these people are so easily irritated.
Protip to her: stop being butthurt, either get off the Internet or learn to deal with. Seriously. Re-assess your life: does it really mean that much to you that some kiddies on the other side of the world purposefully post mean or "sexist" things about you just to get you riled up? Because you're kinda getting trolled here hun, getting trolled big time if you acknowledge their presence.
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On May 02 2013 18:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Before I record the videos I create for various different companies I change my shirt from the loosely fitting singlet I usually wear during the day, to a high-collared t-shirt that will minimise my chances of being objectified. It’s less comfortable, it’s not what I would generally choose to wear, but I do it in attempt to avoid comments about my breasts, my chest, and my physique in general – I try to negate any harassment I possibly can.
So you purposefully make yourself physically uncomfortable and repress a little of your sexuality because you're bothered by random internet users? Seriously? Are you new to the internet? Do you not understand how this thing works? That's like IdrA not playing StarCraft anymore because someone told him he's not a good player. lmao
Obviously, it doesn’t work. Instead of having people disregard gender entirely as it really shouldn’t be relevant to a video about game news, there are streams of responses from men complaining that a woman hasn’t revealed herself to them, as though it’s expected or it’s their right to ask for that. Not only is this incredibly discouraging – these videos take hours and hours of effort to create – it’s easy to feel like you simply can’t win. You can only ignore the comments, but that would make responding to the pleasant viewers or the ones who ask genuine questions impossible.
Nope. It's not impossible. Many people manage to ignore trolls and uneducated children, even on Twitch whose chat is a cancerous cesspool, or YouTube comments ffs.
If jerks on the internet are given a free-pass and allowed to hide behind anonymity when they’re being sexist to someone, then there’s absolutely no reason you can’t use that same anonymity to criticise or educate them. Honestly, just seeing one down-vote or having one person stick up for me is a part of the reason I’m still here and I’m not going to stop fighting. Every single person has the power to fight sexism.
Is this woman stupid? People on the internet are given a free-pass to do and say far more than just being sexist to some uptight, sensitive and easily-offended woman like her who apparently doesn't understand how the internet works or that you can't censor it. I mean lmao, I'm not a big deal, but in my many years of competitive gaming I've had hundreds if not thousands of people call me a no-life, a basement dweller, a loser (all of which baseless assumptions ofc) and wishing things like death and cancer and rape on me and my family, JUST BECAUSE I BEAT THEM AT VIDEO GAMES. Do you think that affected me in any way, shape or form? No lol. I just laugh and brush it off, and it even makes me feel better about myself that these people are so easily irritated. Protip to her: stop being butthurt, either get off the Internet or learn to deal with. Seriously. Re-assess your life: does it really mean that much to you that some kiddies on the other side of the world purposefully post mean or "sexist" things about you just to get you riled up? Because you're kinda getting trolled here hun, getting trolled big time if you acknowledge their presence.
So because it sucks, we shouldn't complain about it and try to change it? That's a shitty attitude.
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People on the internet being assholes is news to anyone? Give me a break.
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On May 02 2013 19:02 ShiroKaisen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 18:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Before I record the videos I create for various different companies I change my shirt from the loosely fitting singlet I usually wear during the day, to a high-collared t-shirt that will minimise my chances of being objectified. It’s less comfortable, it’s not what I would generally choose to wear, but I do it in attempt to avoid comments about my breasts, my chest, and my physique in general – I try to negate any harassment I possibly can.
So you purposefully make yourself physically uncomfortable and repress a little of your sexuality because you're bothered by random internet users? Seriously? Are you new to the internet? Do you not understand how this thing works? That's like IdrA not playing StarCraft anymore because someone told him he's not a good player. lmao
Obviously, it doesn’t work. Instead of having people disregard gender entirely as it really shouldn’t be relevant to a video about game news, there are streams of responses from men complaining that a woman hasn’t revealed herself to them, as though it’s expected or it’s their right to ask for that. Not only is this incredibly discouraging – these videos take hours and hours of effort to create – it’s easy to feel like you simply can’t win. You can only ignore the comments, but that would make responding to the pleasant viewers or the ones who ask genuine questions impossible.
Nope. It's not impossible. Many people manage to ignore trolls and uneducated children, even on Twitch whose chat is a cancerous cesspool, or YouTube comments ffs.
If jerks on the internet are given a free-pass and allowed to hide behind anonymity when they’re being sexist to someone, then there’s absolutely no reason you can’t use that same anonymity to criticise or educate them. Honestly, just seeing one down-vote or having one person stick up for me is a part of the reason I’m still here and I’m not going to stop fighting. Every single person has the power to fight sexism.
Is this woman stupid? People on the internet are given a free-pass to do and say far more than just being sexist to some uptight, sensitive and easily-offended woman like her who apparently doesn't understand how the internet works or that you can't censor it. I mean lmao, I'm not a big deal, but in my many years of competitive gaming I've had hundreds if not thousands of people call me a no-life, a basement dweller, a loser (all of which baseless assumptions ofc) and wishing things like death and cancer and rape on me and my family, JUST BECAUSE I BEAT THEM AT VIDEO GAMES. Do you think that affected me in any way, shape or form? No lol. I just laugh and brush it off, and it even makes me feel better about myself that these people are so easily irritated. Protip to her: stop being butthurt, either get off the Internet or learn to deal with. Seriously. Re-assess your life: does it really mean that much to you that some kiddies on the other side of the world purposefully post mean or "sexist" things about you just to get you riled up? Because you're kinda getting trolled here hun, getting trolled big time if you acknowledge their presence. So because it sucks, we shouldn't complain about it and try to change it? That's a shitty attitude.
If you complain about it, the trolls have won.
Trying to change it on any wide scale is futile, it's simply not going to happen. You can have a well-moderated community like TL, of course, where these people are banned without a second thought, but you will never exterminate this from the Internet, you simply can't.
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I agree the sexism is pretty shameful but 2 small points
YT comments are notoriously bad and Totalbiscuit a MAN gets trolled like a beast, if she wants o get respect she needs to give it back some like TB does. If she turned it onto them people would support her more than she thinks, but if she just stands by shocked and angry well, she won't gain respect because they got to her. I support her war against sexist trolls.
I am not justifying it but a lot of that is the Tits or GTFO culture, for true or false male gamers sometimes feel like women talk down to us with their good looks and expect or are entitled to be higher comments or more viewers than male commenters because of their beguiling ways. While males are not objectified but they also cannot get anywhere by looking good either, women have the power to get "free viewers" because of looks where men have to work harder to be funny or intelligent.
Alanah to her credit doesn't play that, however anonymous jerks still want to take out their hate on all women equally...sigh.
I believe there have been examples of women being overall treated with respect, Dodger and Rosanna Pansino both talk about games and don't get too many sexist comments, I believe there can be a good respectful relationship with female commentators if they talk to us on the level.
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Comments on videos from guys are as awful, she just gets the sex variant too, which is not especially worse than the usual bullshit you'll find on any video.
I'm not really sure this is relevant, if she takes offense from those retards she should as well not post things on the internet, as sad as it is :/
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On May 02 2013 19:03 ven wrote:
People on the internet being assholes is news to anyone? Give me a break.
This is diffrent... this kind of "assholeism" is called "sexism" and for some reason is seen as worse.
/yawn.
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On May 02 2013 19:08 DeathProfessor wrote:
I agree the sexism is pretty shameful but 2 small points
YT comments are notoriously bad and Totalbiscuit a MAN gets trolled like a beast, if she wants o get respect she needs to give it back some like TB does. If she turned it onto them people would support her more than she thinks, but if she just stands by shocked and angry well, she won't gain respect because they got to her. I support her war against sexist trolls.
I am not justifying it but a lot of that is the Tits or GTFO culture, for true or false male gamers sometimes feel like women talk down to us with their good looks and expect or are entitled to be higher comments or more viewers than male commenters because of their beguiling ways. While males are not objectified but they also cannot get anywhere by looking good either, women have the power to get "free viewers" because of looks where men have to work harder to be funny or intelligent.
Alanah to her credit doesn't play that, however anonymous jerks still want to take out their hate on all women equally...sigh.
I believe there have been examples of women being overall treated with respect, Dodger and Rosanna Pansino both talk about games and don't get too many sexist comments, I believe there can be a good respectful relationship with female commentators if they talk to us on the level.
The more attention these trolls get, the more empowered and satisfied they feel. The best solution is to ignore them. The 2nd best solution is to shit on them, TB style.
But when you call them out publicly while portraying yourself as a victim (which ironically enough, is a stereotypically-female thing to do  ) that does absolutely nothing but feed their hunger for attention and lets them know "oh good, we can cause drama and chaos here, let's keep doing this".
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The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits.
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feminism, the art of being a professional victim.
I don't get why this always gets so much attention, males get death threats and that people will rape their family or find them and beat them up or whatever. Just because you are a girl and get bad comments you are not special, it happens to everyone and people usually target what they think the other person cares about. So blacks are called the n word, red heads are gingers and women are bitches or whores, obese people are called ugly and fat. By creating the article she will probably get more of these comments, it is just the nature of the internet and anonymous comments. If you can't deal with it you shouldn't make videos, sounds hard but thats just how it is.
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The Internet is infested with trolls, especially on YouTube. How does this lady not get this? Fucking everyone gets flak on YouTube, even the most beloved of personalities and videos are not safe from the endless waves of trolls.
Nothing to do about it but ignore the trolls or clamp down on free speech. Well, that or taking the discussion to someplace that is actually moderated.
Also, the quoted Reddit posts have an obscene amount of thumbs downs. Why is she using an example that runs directly counter to her point? The thumbs downs are indicative of widespread disapproval of sexism. Also, those things are buried under the more popular answers. Why would she ever want to descend to comment hell in a Reddit thread? It's just a terrible idea, almost every post down there comes from a troll who does NOT speak for anyone but himself, as evidenced by the thumbs downs.
She needs to get a hold of herself and stop screaming "sexism" when what she should really be be complaining about is YouTube's moderation, or maybe a piece on the psychological affects of anonymity.
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On May 02 2013 19:21 Goozen wrote:
The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits.
Please think for 2 seconds before you spot such nonsense, censoring the Internet in its entirety is something nigh on impossible.
On May 02 2013 19:22 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
The Internet is infested with trolls, especially on YouTube. How does this lady not get this? Fucking everyone gets flak on YouTube, even the most beloved of personalities and videos are not safe from the endless waves of trolls.
Nothing to do about it but ignore the trolls or clamp down on free speech. Well, that or taking the discussion to someplace that is actually moderated.
Also, the quoted Reddit posts have an obscene amount of thumbs downs. Why is she using an example that runs directly counter to her point? The thumbs downs are indicative of widespread disapproval of sexism. Also, those things are buried under the more popular answers. Why would she ever want to descend to comment hell in a Reddit thread? It's just a terrible idea, almost every post down there comes from a troll who does NOT speak for anyone but himself, as evidenced by the thumbs downs.
She needs to get a hold of herself and stop screaming "sexism" when what she should really be be complaining about is YouTube's moderation, or maybe a piece on the psychological affects of anonymity.
It's funny because in doing so, she is hypocritically and ironically perpetuating the stereotype that most girl gamers just want attention and will try really hard to get it.
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she should just ''deal with it''
it's true sexist comments are childish, but they aren't harmful and some of them are quite funny
it's not like the whole internet is gonna change because of her attention seeking blog all of the sudden.
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Yeah you aren't going to change people, especially people on the internet who can hide in anonymity, and you just make it worse by reacting to it. Props to MOP above for already saying everything that was on my mind.
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On May 02 2013 18:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +
Before I record the videos I create for various different companies I change my shirt from the loosely fitting singlet I usually wear during the day, to a high-collared t-shirt that will minimise my chances of being objectified. It’s less comfortable, it’s not what I would generally choose to wear, but I do it in attempt to avoid comments about my breasts, my chest, and my physique in general – I try to negate any harassment I possibly can.
So you purposefully make yourself physically uncomfortable and repress a little of your sexuality because you're bothered by random internet users? Seriously? Are you new to the internet? Do you not understand how this thing works? That's like IdrA not playing StarCraft anymore because someone told him he's not a good player. lmao Show nested quote +
Obviously, it doesn’t work. Instead of having people disregard gender entirely as it really shouldn’t be relevant to a video about game news, there are streams of responses from men complaining that a woman hasn’t revealed herself to them, as though it’s expected or it’s their right to ask for that. Not only is this incredibly discouraging – these videos take hours and hours of effort to create – it’s easy to feel like you simply can’t win. You can only ignore the comments, but that would make responding to the pleasant viewers or the ones who ask genuine questions impossible.
Nope. It's not impossible. Many people manage to ignore trolls and uneducated children, even on Twitch whose chat is a cancerous cesspool, or YouTube comments ffs. Show nested quote +
If jerks on the internet are given a free-pass and allowed to hide behind anonymity when they’re being sexist to someone, then there’s absolutely no reason you can’t use that same anonymity to criticise or educate them. Honestly, just seeing one down-vote or having one person stick up for me is a part of the reason I’m still here and I’m not going to stop fighting. Every single person has the power to fight sexism.
Is this woman stupid? People on the internet are given a free-pass to do and say far more than just being sexist to some uptight, sensitive and easily-offended woman like her who apparently doesn't understand how the internet works or that you can't censor it.
Lol, "easily offended". People on a regular basis throwing their most sickening fantasies and insults at her while she's putting up work and passion for what she likes, as a free service to others. Why would she feel uncomfortable with that? Strange!
I mean lmao, I'm not a big deal, but in my many years of competitive gaming I've had hundreds if not thousands of people call me a no-life, a basement dweller, a loser (all of which baseless assumptions ofc) and wishing things like death and cancer and rape on me and my family, JUST BECAUSE I BEAT THEM AT VIDEO GAMES. Do you think that affected me in any way, shape or form? No lol. I just laugh and brush it off, and it even makes me feel better about myself that these people are so easily irritated.
Think hard and maybe you will see the vast differences. Imagine you're musician and people boo and throw foul fruit at you for no reason. I'm sure you'd just laugh and brush it off. I'll not ask you to imagine that this happens to you as a female musician from an all-male audience and the whole objectification thing, because you're clearly not willing to try.
You're not offering your hard work up to the public when you have bnet find a match, and you're both anonymous, he doesn't have your picture, his comments on your personality are necessarily unfounded, and it is impossible for him to comment on your physicalitiy.
Protip to her: stop being butthurt, either get off the Internet or learn to deal with. Seriously. Re-assess your life: does it really mean that much to you that some kiddies on the other side of the world purposefully post mean or "sexist" things about you just to get you riled up? Because you're kinda getting trolled here hun, getting trolled big time if you acknowledge their presence.
She does deal with it by neither shutting up nor accepting the unacceptable.
But I'd prefer this to be seen as a female perspective on sexism in gaming rather than discussion how smart/ballsy/attractive/whatever this woman is or how manly you are. When your contribution is that things are the way the are, ok, we got that.
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On May 02 2013 19:21 Goozen wrote:
The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits.
Then there are teenagers (the main adience of stuff like this?) which often don't give a shit if there is no imminent/direct punishment... Which there never can and will be for stuff like this.
These are not even "easy" cases... I mean, where do you draw the line between harsh criticism or some "vulgar language" and ILLEGAL sexism/harrasment? You would need to have a Judge reading over all this and decide case by case...
Oh... And your on the Internet, that means these "offenders" can come from any country in the world, witch basically all have diffrent laws...
If she (or anyone else) can't deal with it... Then don't do it. It's not like actors or other TV-Persons have it "better", they normally just don't read immediate chat feedback. Your going out there in front of a camera, you will gate rated, insulted and objectified... Deal with it.
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On May 02 2013 19:25 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:21 Goozen wrote:
The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits. Please think for 2 seconds before you spot such nonsense, censoring the Internet in its entirety is something nigh on impossible. Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:22 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
The Internet is infested with trolls, especially on YouTube. How does this lady not get this? Fucking everyone gets flak on YouTube, even the most beloved of personalities and videos are not safe from the endless waves of trolls.
Nothing to do about it but ignore the trolls or clamp down on free speech. Well, that or taking the discussion to someplace that is actually moderated.
Also, the quoted Reddit posts have an obscene amount of thumbs downs. Why is she using an example that runs directly counter to her point? The thumbs downs are indicative of widespread disapproval of sexism. Also, those things are buried under the more popular answers. Why would she ever want to descend to comment hell in a Reddit thread? It's just a terrible idea, almost every post down there comes from a troll who does NOT speak for anyone but himself, as evidenced by the thumbs downs.
She needs to get a hold of herself and stop screaming "sexism" when what she should really be be complaining about is YouTube's moderation, or maybe a piece on the psychological affects of anonymity. It's funny because in doing so, she is hypocritically and ironically perpetuating the stereotype that most girl gamers just want attention and will try really hard to get it.
Before accusing me of "spouting nonsense" think about what i said.
I am making the argument that unless you remove anonymity from the web, this won't stop. I didn't say that it needs to be done, only that there is no way to realistic way stop this problem.
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EPT
