Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVI

On January 23 2013 06:11 warbaby wrote:

more than halfway full!

Greetings SkaPunk, Sn0_Man, Acid~, and zarepath. I've enjoyed observing your play in Newbie XXXV (excepting SkaPunk of course). Hopefully this game won't have any smurf replacement/modkill drama!

On January 26 2013 15:03 warbaby wrote:
You're both right that aggression is useful for scumhunting when applied logically. It's also useful for crapping up the thread and distracting attention away from scumbuddies. We can deal with that when/if it happens.

Acid~, your first post in XXXV was a lot more useful.

My original post said "being a jerk for no reason"; scumhunting is a good reason. Snoman already made this exact point. Is there a good reason you made this rather pointless post?

On January 26 2013 22:31 warbaby wrote:


Why didn't you wait until there were 5 pages to review in this game before posting, then? Nobody forced you to make a 2 sentence post that sounds like a scum trying to blend in. Your assertion here is appears reasonable, but in fact this is a lame excuse.

I assumed you agreed with snoman because you literally made the same point as snoman, just worded differently. Snoman also said some more stuff, which I feel contributed to the thread. What I think about your alignment is irrelevant to whether you made a quality first post, so I interpret this as a strawman.

I'm still willing to believe I'm misinterpreting your posts. Please explain how you were contributing to the thread or why you felt the need to make such an effort-lacking first post (breaking with your recent town meta). If you were literally just being lazy, and felt the need to post something, then say so. If you felt you actually did contribute something that hadn't been said already, then I'll just have to take your world for it.

On January 26 2013 11:16 warbaby wrote:
I'd like to get this flawless town victory started by suggesting some ideas to promote a healthy town atmosphere:

• No lurking! Personally I'm not yet decided on Lynch All Lurkers, but it sounds like a decent idea.
  
• Post succinctly. Don't ramble about your personal life. Don't post a stream of consciousness... coalesce your ideas before you post.
  
• Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
  

GLHF everyone

On January 27 2013 10:45 warbaby wrote:


I don't agree. If someone pretends to scumhunt convincingly, they should appear to be the same as someone who is actually scumhunting. Just because Mocsta pretended effectively (for a while) in XXXV does not mean I'm doing the same thing.

The way I see it, the only thing I can do to further address your other concerns is to play solid town, without being overly aggressive and feeding into your criticism. This seems reasonable so I'll give it a shot, unless you have a better suggestion, or some direct questions for me.

Your point B is not possible for me to address further. You've made your point here, I gave my explanation before I realized I had broken the rules. Can we leave it at that?

On January 28 2013 00:28 warbaby wrote:


Great point. I'm offering to cool my jets (for now) because I think sn0man has a legitimate complaint about controlling town. I totally don't agree with sn0man that scum hunting D1 is "rich", though. Would he prefer scum get a free pass D1? I would like others' take on this. Maybe there's someone else that sn0man would allow to scumhunt, without accusing them of being a Mocsta doppelganger?

I didn't forget about you. You were manner enough to explain why your contributions were going to be thin D1. And the posts you are making are good.

On January 28 2013 00:39 warbaby wrote:
Also, I'm with Glurio.

##Vote: SkaPunk

SkaPunk has demonstrated that he is in fact capable of using the post box. Maybe if we pressure him some more, he'll actually contribute.

On January 28 2013 04:53 warbaby wrote:


I will certainly not be annoyed if we lynch a lurker and they flip scum. I don't think this will happen D1 though, due to the scum team's information advantage. Going by statistics it's most probable one of the 3 lurkers is scum, if one assumes lurkers are evenly distributed.

There is a 1/3rd chance, if you assume scum is evenly distributed among the lurkers. I'm not sure this is a totally valid assumption, although it probably makes more sense than all of the lurkers being scum.

On January 28 2013 08:35 warbaby wrote:
##Unvote: SkaPunk
##Vote: abenson

By glurio's metric, we should lynch scum, then scummy lurkers, then lurkers. If SkaPunk's single post was a scum trying to blend in then he's the worst scum ever. My (very weak) read on him is that he's town, but playing with extremely little effort so far. Pressure is apparently not getting a rise from him. Maybe he's not reading the thread, but one would really expect scum to put up some kind of defense when they're 2 hours (is that right?) from being lynched. So I'm going to vote for an actual 100% lurker.

I like that Corazon didn't vote for SkaPunk. If Cora was scum, there's a chance he would have just bandwagoned SkaPunk right off the bat. So I'm voting with Cora. The same applies to Zarepath, but Zare's been less active than Cora so I feel it's a bit riskier voting with Zare (in case AFKing suddenly steps up his game).

Speaking of pressuring people to get a rise from them, what the heck happened to Acid~? He defended himself from my bullshit aggression, then ignored Zare's question about LAL and peaced out.

On January 29 2013 10:16 warbaby wrote:
Oh well, I can't sleep. Acid making a hard analysis is not what's ridiculous. Failing to vote day 1, and then swooping in with an FoS is what I find slightly ridiculous. If Acid won't post his opinions about anybody else, then how are we supposed to get reads on him? And what's the point of making an FoS if you don't give other players enough content to make a read on you?

Has Acid~ put in the effort to analyze anyone's play but my own? We don't have a single shred of evidence to the contrary.

Why didn't Acid~ post a will before leaving N1? This makes it seem like he's very sure there's no chance of him being night killed.

I encourage you guys to look at the case Acid~ and Sn0_man are making against me. But I also encourage you to look at their play objectively, with special attention at how much effort they've put into doing anything else.

On January 29 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote:

Now to the scumhunting part. The problem I'm having with Acid right now is that all he has done the whole game is tunneled Warbaby. I know he's going after his scum read, but most of his posts have been in his argument with WB and attacking WB. I made an argument against him asking for a reply, and it has completely ignored in his pursuit to have Warbaby lynched at all costs. Ignoring an argument is an automatic FoS for me. If he was town, why would he ignore an argument made against him. If he is truly innocent, he can explain his behavior, not ignore me and hope it blows over.

FoS: Acid~

On January 29 2013 11:02 warbaby wrote:
Oh, hey Acid~, good of you to drop in. Thought you weren't going to be back for another ">24 hours".

I'm not going to explain my D1 actions any more. I already explained them enough. Anyone who wants answers to Acid~'s questions are invited to review my filter. If anyone (other than Acid~ and Sn0man) are still not satisfied, I will answer their specific questions.



If my was so meek, why did you get so pissed off at me in your second post of the thread, when I pressured you?

##Vote: Acid~

I still have my suspicions about Sn0man, but I can't see a town motivation in Acid~ voting me right now. Town is in good shape aftering dodging N1 kill, anyone throwing around votes right now should have put in enough effort to analyze D1 in it's totality, which Acid~ admits he has not even bothered to do.

On January 29 2013 11:44 warbaby wrote:


I criticize Acid~ for doing nothing but tunnel me and not even bothering to read the whole thread before voting. You seriously think it's good for a town to vote without reading the whole thread first?



Making an FoS on me without reading the whole thread - OK fine. Voting for anybody before reading the whole thread - not OK.

Your rejection of my response to Acid~ is valid. I'll review the thread and if I can find anything he's posted that I don't feel was already addressed in my filter, I'll explain it. I'm happy to answer questions, just not from Acid~ or Sn0man on their case against me, because I think it's a waste of time to defend myself further.

Again, if anybody wants answers to the questions Acid~ is asking, they're right there in my filter. You just gotta take the time to read.

On January 29 2013 12:31 warbaby wrote:
Gah, his case against me is such bullshit I want to break it down for you.

Acid~ complains that I'm not actually scumhunting. This is an old complaint from his 3rd post in D1 that I've done my best to address. If he thinks my scumhunting is so bad, well, I'll just do my best to get better. Other than that, why is he trying to discourage me from scum hunting? What possible motive could that have?

Acid~ rumbles about numbers that aren't even relevant anymore, since D1 was already over. This is what happened: I responded to Corazon's mistake and extrapolated on top of it. Corazon made a mistake, I didn't catch it and made some comments based on a false assumption. I believe Corazon shares the blame with me on this, so you can refer to his defense for more details. Maybe Acid~ with his amazing math skills could have helped clear things up AT THE TIME, but he didn't. There is no excuse is for this useless behavior.

Acid~ says that he now has a strong scum read on me because using responding to someone else's faulty math is treason. I guess Corazon is a traitor too, then.

Acid~ complains about my votes, but he didn't even vote D1, and then he voted D2 after admitting he hadn't read the thread.

I told myself I wasn't going to defend Acid~'s aggression any more. But his case is such horse crap that it makes him look scummy. He was already 3rd on my list of scum, but now he's #1.

On January 29 2013 13:33 warbaby wrote:
I don't accusing you of defending Acid~. I accuse you of not bothering to connect the dots and think for yourself. Of course I read your early posts because I've actually commented on them. In my filter. Which is there for you to read.

I thought about it some more, and there is one town motivation Acid~ could have for voting me, which is to pressure me because he needs a better read.

If that's his reasoning, I would have to rethink my case on him. I'm not saying I'll unvote him if, in 24 hours when he gets back from work (who works for 24 hours? isn't that illegal in germany?) he just says, "Yes warbaby I was pressuring you to get a better read." He needs think up some way to make actions that demonstrate this motive.

He needs to literally make up for the fact that he blatantly broke the rules, and spat in town's face, by failing to vote D1. And so far he has not done that.

On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy).

To me, this day has come down to "Should we lynch WB or Acid?". I believe that it has come down to this question for most others as it regards to the lynch.

Warbaby's erratic behavior made me very suspicious at first, I must admit. However, his brashness and unwilling to unvote Acid (even though voting for him early is a terrible idea) actually gave me a better feeling that he was town. The biggest thing that a scum has to worry about is their reputation with the rest of the town. A scum knows that he has to make sure no one else thinks he is scum so he can push his agenda forward and not be under suspicion. A town player would not care how others think about them because he knows he is town and has nothing to hide. Warbaby's behavior has seemed to follow these ideals. If he was scum, he would've listened to me and halted his aggression way before he did. The FoS definitely would've been enough for him to listen to me. Scum are afraid of getting lynched, so even threatening a vote would be enough to shut a scum down. Since it didn't phase WB, I believe that he is town not being afraid of his image in order to get the scum lynched. On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go.

On the other hand, Acid has been ridiculously dodgy the entire game. In a town where inactivity has been a problem, he has been part of the inactivity problem. He dodges my argument, and only after he is pressured about it does he say that it wasn't relevant. The timing of his defense is ridiculously shady, almost 2 days after the original pressure. If he wanted to call my argument out as BS, he should've done so at his first opportunity, not chosen to ignore it. Telling me that my idea is stupid is how town bounces ideas off of each other and becomes more efficient as a scumhunting machine. By ignoring it until pressured, it's basically him saying that he's dodging it still.

The final straw is the voting history. Scum do not care who gets voted off as long as it's not one of them. WB voted, Acid didn't. There's no way Acid could not have spared 5 minutes to vote, even if he knew he was going to be working for a long shift. I don't buy the work stuff. At least jump on a wagon or vote no-lynch if you don't have time to vote. It's not being busy, it's disinterest in the vote. It's scummy.

At the end of the day, would I rather vote for the town jester or the shady guy on the corner asking people if they want to have fun?

For these reasons:

##Vote: Acid~

If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know.

On January 30 2013 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote:
@Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways.

On January 29 2013 13:42 warbaby wrote:
Warbaby's case against Acid~
1) He plays like shit day one

and fails to vote.


2) He comes back day 2, with a completely unacceptable excuse. If he has 24 hour work shifts, he should not be signing up for mafia games.

3) He admits he didn't even read the whole thread,

and pops a gigantic case (that largely echoes stuff Sn0man already said, so it's not like he even made that much effort

-- mostly the math stuff is original, but I'm not even the one who fucked up the math in the first place).
4) The case is largely bullshit. I've also made a bullshit cases, to pressure people, but...
5) If he's trying to pressure me, it's a shitty way to do it, because he'll be gone for 24 hours.

On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote:


I'd love to discuss what actually happened N1, which I see as a great win for town.

Note that there is one variation of the setup that allows for both JK and Doc (if I'm not reading the wiki wrong here -- love to see our authority on math and statistics, Acid~, to contribute on this point, but he's probably won't bother responding to this post, assuming he ever reads it).

If the blue is doc, should they claim? I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful.

If the doc exists and claims, and scum kills them, we end up with a 100% confirmed town and a no kill on Night 1. Is this good for town?

I'm not sure if this makes sense. I haven't put a lot of thought into reasons and possible results around town power role claims.

On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote:


Where in my case against you did I say you not unvoting for WB was a scum tell?

The difference between your tunneling and WB's tunneling is that Warbaby has at least joined in the discussion about other players and other things. You've had two posts that did not have anything to deal with WB, and they are the two posts answering me.

You also dodged my argument. If you thought it didn't make sense you would've said so. No one else said it was BS, so why didn't you say it?

I told you both that if you were town, you would stop tunneling each other for the majority of D2. You insist on Warbaby being lynched, but how can we be sure of your town credibility if your scumhunting has only consisted of telling us why WB is so much scum?

You both have been completely useless to us, and you guys tunneling each other 10 minutes into D2 is hurting the town. You've brought nothing to the table, and you dodged my argument. When it comes to you and WB being on the chopping block, I'd rather pick someone who has shown at least a slight flash of actual scum hunting more than one person, and is not afraid to call out BS on my arguments and does not act shady.