EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XX
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
Also, Mackin seems to have completely dropped off with no significant contributions whatsoever, and we KNOW he was around during most of the discussion during this first 24 hours. Not too sure about the other lurkers yet obviously, but I know JieXian and I will have similar post timing (see NMM XVIII) because we’re only 2 hours apart. | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
On July 05 2012 08:38 TMG26 wrote: It's a 13 player game, and only 3 mobsters, so there is still a room for a litle mistake on day1 Megafluff, and downplaying the importance of day 1 reads With a random vote on day 1 the probability of hitting scum is low, but missing wont be that dangerous, the question that i want to make is: With this low ratio of scum, does the nolynch becomes more or less viable? I'm still a newbie in mafia games, thats one of the reasons of asking this questing trying to look helpless And sorry about my bad english, i'm not a native speaker more helplessness About what being happening here.. Lazer was not clear on what he said, Hopeless stated that, and yourHarry immidiatly voted Hopeless for that So, in my opinion if we want to catch the scum we have to confront them, so i Hopeless did the right thing...But so did yourHarry, what i find funny was JingleHell jumping in to declare FoS on yourHarry In my opinion Hopeless and yourHarry did almost same same thing Note the language - "in my opinion" as opposed to saying it outright. Overly diplomatic and indecisive My main suspects right now fall to yourHarry and JingleHell, because your acusations seammed more like a counter acusation after a "scum teammate" being acused But is all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken Despite stating two suspects, immediately reverts to indecision The first line which you call "megafluff" is just that: one line. If the majority of his post was like this then calling it megafluff is warranted, but he moves straight onto the game afterwards. I also don't think that him stressing that English is not his first language is scummy; it's a legitimate concern in a game that is based entirely on how you express yourself in text, he obviously doesn't want to misrepresent himself. I don't think we should hold these things against him. However... What we should be concerned about is the post already quoted above, and this one: + Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 09:02 TMG26 wrote: Thanks for the welcome A: We cant know for sure what you are trying to do, a statment like "i'm not trying to mislynch" is worth notting... scum wont say they are trying to mislynch B: Well, there no eveindence that he wanted to start a bandwagon, there was only a acusation of lazer's contradiction, BUT you told us what you tought about it... thats your opinion, so its recorded now What i believe he condemns you most is for the "early" vote... And then you came with the odds not being bad..................... Are basically summarising what has happened, and add very little in terms of original content. There is also this line which you missed hapahauli: With a random vote on day 1 the probability of hitting scum is low, but missing wont be that dangerous, the question that i want to make is: With this low ratio of scum, does the nolynch becomes more or less viable? Missing mafia and hitting town is not dangerous? TMG, I'd also like an explanation of this post: On July 05 2012 10:49 TMG26 wrote: Even if it is Plurality Lynch, there's still 40 hours left And its again funny to see that Hopeless jumped on your defence... After you had already voted harry after harry voted hopeless In my mind, you and harry are the prime suspects..but only a few hours have passed, and i dont want to jump into bad conclusions I don't quite understand. So you think that hopeless and jingle are mafia because hopeless defended jingle, but jingle and harry are actually your prime suspects? I'd just like this point clarified. All in all, TMG is my strongest read so far. Should he start posting more original content and adequately address the concerns I have raised with him in this post, I am willing to let him off the hook. There are after all 4 people who either haven't posted at all, or stopped posting when the discussion turned serious, and 1 person who has asked for a replacement. | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 21:09 Lazermonkey wrote: Some good analysis there Hapa. Although I can't really contribute anything on Mackin as his filter is just that long. I only find the first post of him to be intresting tho. I don't agree with my post be contradictory which I have already said a dozen of times. Yes, I did use bad wording but that's about it. Also look at the timing. Basically echoing what Hope had already said at that point. The other posts from him is indeed fluff, which is at best bad town play. As for TMG I wouldn't even call him a lurker, at least not in comparison to some other players *hint*. His posting has in fact been okay given that we have only played for <24 hours. But looking at his posts he has for sure being suuuper safe with his posting. He is really afraid of calling anyone scum. Going back and forth never taking a clear stance anywhere. The prime example: So harry did the right thing. Then he is still your prime suspect Then it's all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken. Note the massive indecisiveness. Why do you care? You are fully capable to take on stance on Harry before everyone have posted. You are testing waters here instead of taking a bold stance. Overall Mackin is kinda null for me although with the slightest scum vibes due to his first post. I consider him a lurker atm and he really needs to post more before I make a clear read. TMG on the other hand i feel is playing in a very anti-town way. I'd say he is my number 2 scumread after Jingle atm. The bolded sections highlight your contradiction. You're doing what you are accusing him of doing no? So harry did the right thing. Then he is still your prime suspect Except it's "so TMG is posting ok, then is is still playing very anti-town". | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
"So TMG is posting ok, then he is still playing very anti-town" | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
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BassInSpace
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BassInSpace
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+ Show Spoiler + On July 06 2012 11:49 Hapahauli wrote: So this post is rife with contradiction and scumtells. Let's break it down. You did not claim it was a huge case. I got angry because you had a misleading case and I've made that clear multiple times. What does that second sentence even mean? That's the scummiest thing I've read so far! You posted a weak/half-assed read as your original case then you're saying you don't want it to get brushed off as a weak/half-assed read and therefore you posted it? WHAAAAT. When did I even suggest that I had 3 scum locked down? Where did that even come from? That's some suspicious shit right there. He did actually call it a huge case. And I believe he's saying that he didn't want his read to be brushed off as half assed, not that his post IS half assed (not that this really helps him). Now, on to zen man. On July 06 2012 05:44 The_Zen_Man wrote: I stated in my last post that i would post about other things too, so please let me do that now. It was only one post, which did not have that much text, so i was not over reading him . Though I am still unsure on what else to post about right now. Where is the promised contribution? He comes in after his lengthy absence, puts a FOS on Mackin (easy to do, others area already suspicious of him) with very little in the way of original content, promises to post more about other players and does not deliver. There was quite a bit to post about at that point, yet he didn't do it. Note that he also leaves after the Hopeless vs zen man debate starts, so he could've said something about that. TMG I wasn't attacking you for your English skills. + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2012 01:02 TMG26 wrote: So basically you guys are acusing me based on my heplessness and the lack of new content in my post... Ok, its my very first game here, and i only played mafia twice on a totally different community and on a different language, so its a litle bit natural to me to be a litle bit "scared" You may say its scummy atitude, all that i can say to defend myself is that it was a newbie atitude... well i wasnt very clear it seems.. Lets see what happenned before that post: >Harry voted Hopeless >jingle isnta voted Harry for that vote >Harry voted Jingle >Hopeless returns and gives some suport to Jingle i believe that the part that confused you was saying that harry and jingle were the prime ones, not jingle and hopeless. Well, what i was trying to say was that harry and jingle were the ones with bigger chance to be scum due to OMGUS, of course that if jingle is revealed scum Hopeless chances of being scum increases __________________________________ It seem people want me to take a stance, fine! Reading the new posts it to me that Release is trying to force a lynch on Lazer, and i see no motive for that Release main acusation is that Lazer first post is really bad, sure, it wasnt good, he wrote so much, and almost no decent content... But your main acusation is that Lazer's first post if it had really started a discussion on the subject as he intended to do we would loose tremendous amount of time discussing meangless stuff, and I ask you, how could we loose that much time discussing why VT shouldnt fake claim? Its a little obious what lazer said, so it wouldnt wast us as much time as you want us to believe I dont see the point of the sex toys discussion not being rehashed, Lazer did not tried to rehash what he pointed out in the first post, and it seems like you are saying that the sex toys discussion was positive Basically, i agree that Lazeer first post was bad, but it wasnt the work of the scum Devil that you want us to believe, it seems to me that you are trying really hard to see Lazer lynched at all costs when there werent another topic going on that you didnt pay atition FoS Release My points against you were that you did not add any of your own original ideas in your post. The post quoted above still does not provide anything original. You also didn't explain this line of yours to me: With a random vote on day 1 the probability of hitting scum is low, but missing wont be that dangerous As for this part, you're saying that you think Jingle and Harry are scum because they use OMGUS cases against each other? >Harry voted Hopeless >jingle isnta voted Harry for that vote >Harry voted Jingle >Hopeless returns and gives some suport to Jingle i believe that the part that confused you was saying that harry and jingle were the prime ones, not jingle and hopeless. Well, what i was trying to say was that harry and jingle were the ones with bigger chance to be scum due to OMGUS, of course that if jingle is revealed scum Hopeless chances of being scum increases However, the points raised by hapahauli combined with the meta analysis of hopeless is going to mean that I put my vote on him for now, rather than zen man or TGM. I say "for now" because I'll probably be asleep when (if) he posts his defense against the formal case, and I'd like to actually read it before deciding to leave the vote on him. I have a birthday to attend later, so I'll be gone till much later in the night. ##Vote Hopeless1der | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
"Note that he also leaves after the Hopeless vs zen man debate starts, so he could've said something about that" Should of course read "Note that he also leaves after the Hopeless vs Hapahauli debate starts, so he could've said something about that" | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
Also FYI Lazer, Jingle was mafia in NMM XVIII, not town. | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
I assume you are actually talking about Hopeless, since he looks to be the most likely lynch at this point. If you think this is a mislynch, can you please explain why? If you are town you should be trying your hardest to prevent a mislynch, rather than chastising everyone else for pursuing their current cases. | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
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BassInSpace
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
On July 07 2012 10:31 JingleHell wrote: It's better to do it at night, since he can't know if we have a medic/roleblocker of some kind. He's already a potential target, and if he ends up dead, he's left behind his cases. We do know there's a medic, it's an open set up. | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On July 06 2012 05:48 Mackin wrote: Hey guys, I've only caught up on what I've missed, but I want to provide some defense for myself from some FoS I've been getting. I feel it's a little unfair, but I'll explain myself each time someone has called me out. Ok, so yeah dropped off but not exactly available 24/7 so it's not really that strange - just different time zones / bed times is all. I agree I haven't contributed too much, but call me out on anything I say and I'll justify it. Ok Lazer, I'm ready to contribute - I'll be pretty active for a good while if I have anything to add  As I said before, don't jump to point the FoS on me just because I have different sleeping times than others. I see the post isn't exactly contradictory now but it still is worded badly, and I think I was one of two who misinterpreted what he was saying about roleclaiming. // I would agree with you on that point except for the fact that if you read the thread you would realise I wasn't the only one trying to get people talking by saying stuff about their names. If anything I've been pro-town by trying to get people to post which I think worked in some small part, because now it's clearer to see people's stance on each other since they have actually been posting. More posts in thread = more informed decisions - absolutely true in Mafia. Also for Hapahauli, you're using words like "huge red flag" and "very anti town" when my motive was simply to get the ball rolling in this game. I feel this is very harsh for how little I've posted, but hopefully I'll have something to add when I re-read everyone's posts. Back to JieXian: Focus on me all you want, I have nothing but valid reasons for posting what I have so far, call me out if you want an explanation. Hmm, I know you say I haven't posted anything of worth, but I disagree. As I have stated above, that in my eyes, it's not so much as the content I had posted but the post itself to get people talking is the main reason for my post. Anyway, the way I see it, I haven't exactly "bandwagoned" I just agree putting pressure on players earlier on as it helps to get them talking. Anyway, I'm gonna look into everyone's post again and post my thoughts on some of the other players... Inflates the contributions he's made to the thread. At that point, he hadn't promoted any discussion, all he did was make a few people talk about how scummy he is. Next: + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2012 07:15 Mackin wrote: I'm not exactly sure of what to think yet. Nobody has clearly made any big bold statements but whoever the Mafia are, they sure are trying their best to confuse the shit out of me. I can see why people say Mafia is more rewarding the more time you spend looking at it, it is really difficult to make an informed decision when half of the people are lying to you Release seems like he's on the town's side, as does Hapa, Zen and JieXian, who mostly has the same motive to get people talking as me. Many people have already given credible reasons for suspicion of others, including suspicion aimed at myself but I can see pretty much everyone isn't doing too bad at acting townie. False, at that point release and lazer were already starting to go at each other (although maybe this doesn't fit his definition of bold, so it's arguable), but Hapa was already attacking Hopeless, and had even dropped his vote on him already. He's being non-committal. He also gives the excuse that he is confused by everyone, possibly as a cover for his infrequent and generally content light posting, although I admit this may be digging a little too hard. And then we have this post: + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2012 08:42 Mackin wrote: @Hapa: Your case on Hopeless1der: I don't know what to think here. It's like Hopeless is really trying to build a case against you, he builds up quite alot in the first post and when you make your stance clear in your response, his response is to back down immediately. Maybe he just wanted to question you and test the water a bit? I don't think he's trying to genuinely full on attack and point the FoS here. I don't know why he starts going on about Release, if I was thinking more suspiciously of him, he maybe just wanted the conversation to change quickly and forget about building a case on you. Case vs. TMG26: Unless his English is really bad, I can see some basis for thinking he isn't exactly on townie side. He may be trying to be really diplomatic for the purposes of going through to the next day, but then again mafia will try to act diplomatic while pushing accusations at the same time like he did in that first quoted post. It's hard to know whats going on in that first post, because his English really isn't great so I'm undecided. I think the indecision may be out of fear of being lynched on day1 townie, but it's hard to know whether the indecision is because he isn't sure and doesn't want to accuse someone innocent or because he has a reason to be indecisive... I don't understand what he's trying to achieve. It does seem odd/slightly scummy but still undecided. Bass said: I don't quite understand. So you think that hopeless and jingle are mafia because hopeless defended jingle, but jingle and harry are actually your prime suspects? I'd just like this point clarified. All in all, TMG is my strongest read so far. I think that's a good point actually. why would harry be one of TMG's prime suspects if hopeless had defended jingle (if he is assuming jingle to be scummy?) Onto the case against Release: I think TMG's case against Release isn't so strong - anyone putting out an early FoS isn't that serious in D1 early stages as it keeps the discussion going and there is no strong points in the post you (hapa) have linked, whereas Evul brings up a better worded, but still annoyingly confusing case against him. I can see why he calls out certain things Release has said, but nothing said actually sounds too scummy to me, but I know I could easily be missing something. Anyway, I'm getting really tired, damn GMT time so I might have to goto bed soon Again, claiming that he doesn't know what to think/is confused, thereby not taking a stance on either hopeless or TMG. And then, out of nowhere, this: [B]On July 07 2012 04:04 Mackin wrote: ##Vote YourHarry No explanation before or after. Not even a post. At that point it was 3 votes a piece for Hopeless and Lazer. I'm thinking this is a throwaway vote on someone who is highly unlikely to be lynched; again, being very non-committal. | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
"Inflates the contributions he's made to the thread. At that point, he hadn't promoted any discussion, all he did was make a few people talk about how scummy he is" Poor choice of words, should be "Inflates the contributions he's made to the thread. At that point, he hadn't promoted any discussion, all he did was make a few people talk about how suspicious he is" The above post is what I noticed on my read through when I spotted that vote on YourHarry, I will be taking more time to look at what's happening with Lazer and Jingle before posting my thoughts, as it's quite a bit to digest. | ||
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BassInSpace
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BassInSpace
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As it stands, things are obviously looking bad for you Jingle. If you are town, I think you could've avoided a lot of this had you simply not posted the way you have to belittle others. You may be town and know it, but sticking to your cases and reads and refusing to post your thoughts on other people's cases doesn't help in convincing us that you're town (as happened with your refusal to properly address Hapa's case against Hopeless, instead choosing to rely solely on your meta analysis of Hopeless in a game where he hadn't even flipped yet). Though I agree in general with Hapa's case against you (except for a few points, such as his use of you saying you have "feelings" and vibes" about Hopeless. This is just semantics, "feeling" and "vibe" can just as easily be replaced with "I think/don't think he's scummy"), I'm ready and willing to hear what you have to say. I must say though, this is a strong point against you: On July 07 2012 04:41 JingleHell wrote: Saying you're wrong and saying we're unconvinced are two entirely different things. Why the excessive defense of Lazer, exactly? You call it a bandwagon, even though it seems to be multiple people who have decided that he's at best unintentionally divisive, and at worst scum. Either way, if he gets lynched, he won't be missed, as he's not going to help the town win in either case. If you feel that Lazer's posting is that bad, just ignore it. Lynching him regardless of whether he is town or mafia hurts town, since that's one more person mafia will have to shoot and one more town vote. Give us a little credit, we can spot when a good case is being made and when there isn't a very good case. As you can see, no one has jumped on any of Lazer's reads yet. YourHarry, I am not a fan of you focusing so heavily on power roles. There is a reason (and correct me if I'm wrong post game hosts) that the hosts made this a completely open set up with godfather and miller: so that we focus on actually making good reads and cases, not waiting for a DT to get a positive check for mafia. I also think that your logic in giving rabbitz, TMG and Makin town reads is flawed. My case against Mackin already speaks for itself, but rabbitz's last minute vote switch occurred when Hopeless was already set to lynch. Even if he hadn't switched, Hopeless would still have been lynched because he hit 5 votes first. His vote changed nothing. You could even argue that it was an attempt at being on the correct lynch to grab townie cred if you wanted to. | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
"Lynching him regardless of whether he is town or mafia hurts town, since that's one more person mafia will have to shoot and one more town vote" is confusing, should read "Lynching him regardless of whether he is town or mafia hurts town, since that's one less person mafia will have to shoot and one less town vote if he is town" | ||
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