EPT/in as replacement
/in as replacement for host
/in as a replacement for a replacement (if the replacement shows up dead don't look at me)
/in as the hydra of an already existant player
Surely I at least one of these "/in"s is valid right?
Liar Game Mini Mafia
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
/in as replacement /in as replacement for host /in as a replacement for a replacement (if the replacement shows up dead don't look at me) /in as the hydra of an already existant player Surely I at least one of these "/in"s is valid right? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
This "Liar Game Mini Mafia" is not real. It's just a distraction. As you see, there are a lot of "top tier" names in this setup (Ace, Foolishness, syllogism, Mr Wiggles, possibly Radfield, etc). But why aren't all other "top tier" players playing? Why isn't Grey, or iGrok, or GMarshall playing at all or not even interested? Ah! I'm giving away too much info, but johnny, be sure that you won't actually be missing the "real" Liar Game  I won't reveal any more... | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
D73AayT18XzD0AqfU496 Tos9EYdnLHsVKQdHSnko 4i1TGIbnUIvDPD99y2ym F4j6jdbbi6OIOAlbLnzW You know what to do | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 29 2012 08:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Since when did I become a top-tier player, haha? Oh...so you still don't know...? I better keep my mouth shut then. | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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On April 30 2012 01:51 Foolishness wrote: I don't know how you're going to go about forbidding that since this is a PM game. If it all gets organized behind the scenes in PM land what are you going to do about it? And if the numbers get low to 4 or 6 people alive it will be even harder to "forbid" something like that (since it is more likely to happen). Regardless if it is forbidden, if I know that people are voting a certain way I'm going to be voting to try to get to that tie scenario. Yes I agree don't let people change their votes. Well, then I guess townies could lie and say they'll vote someone, and vote someone else, so the scum can't willingly force a draw | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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gonzaw
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On April 30 2012 12:05 Cephiro wrote: Sheth+Gonzaw+Me scumteam winning, calling it now, deja vu! :D Hehe, those were good times  Also, lol this is a PM game, didn't notice  I won't be PMing much, unless it's to coordinate things or ask for specific information. I played a PM game before, and even though very few people PMed me it was a pain in the ass to follow. @wgb: I'd say we need to come up with a plan for Round A as well. Even if we scumhunt normally, and find scum, if that scum is never on the majority of Round A we will never be able to lynch him. Scum know each other and may have some roles that manipulate the answers and stuff, so maybe they can make a scum of their choice always be a minority or something (for instance like in the actual manga) One thing I was thinking is, for instance to scumhunt normally this round, and have EVERYBODY claim what their answer will be in the thread (YES or NO) We force the "scummy" players to vote for the mayority, and the most townie ones vote for the minority to save them from Round B. Oh, talking about that, if someone PMs you telling you about creating a group with a "foolproof" plan where you vote the same way or something, don't buy it | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 30 2012 13:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well, I agree with gonzaw's statement that a strategy for Round A is also necessary. Scum are able to coordinate their votes, so they can always split themselves so that only half end up in the lynch pool ever if we let people just do whatever. So, we need some kind of strategy to make sure that we can get a decent amount of scummy people in the majority, that we can actually hold people to it, and that's feasible. Obviously, an optimal strategy for lynch choice would be for every person to vote the same way. Then, everyone makes it into Phase B, and no one is safe from being able to be lynched. This makes Phase B more complicated, but I think it's worth it for the choice. What do people think? Results are revealed afterwards, so we should know if someone's lying and made it into the minority. Anyone who does, we can lynch. I don't see a reason townies need to worry about being immune to lynch this early in the game. Perhaps in the later stages, where it's feasible scum rig the votes to kill them, but not now. If someone tries that now, we'll know about the ninja bandwagon, because again, the results are revealed. We should try to force scum to play by our rules. They'll be a lot more careful, because there's two scum teams, so I don't see them trying anything too ballsy. Any disadvantage going into the late-game will translate into the other scum-team having more influence than them. Also, because I can, and the name of the game, what do people think of LaL? :p If EVERYBODY arrives at Round B, it's very likely A LOT of townies will be killed. Think about it. All townies will vote for their 5 top town reads (or stack votes on someone). What happens to the "bad" townies that nobody will vote for? They will all die. Scum won't vote for them since they know no other townie will vote for them either. We could end up with various town lynches on D1. That's why I wanted to come up with something that will make only the scummy people on the mayority, or at least, have the players most likely to be town in the minority On April 30 2012 13:11 Cephiro wrote: And how would that be useful? As nice as it would to believe people will vote for something co-operatively in a game of this size, it just won't happen. If you somehow manage to gather and confirm all townies, and ensure they vote in a certain pattern, that still enables scum to do whatever they want, and even if they outed themselves, they may still be able to get in the minority constantly. It's just not gonna work in a game where votes are hidden until the results. (Where it will be obvious who voted for what) If everybody follows the plan, then those that vote different than they told are scum. After that, you can either get a vig to shoot them (if there is any), maybe luckily have the other scum team shoot them, or change the voting system on later days to ensure that player becomes mayority. The point is that either you have a claimed scum, or the plan goes through I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass. Regarding PMs... anyone can PM me and say/ask anything they want, but I promise nothing to no-one as of yet. The first hours of Day 1 are there to come up with an epic strategy and have people to comment on them and take stances. You can't tell me "concentrate on scumhunting" 1 hour after the Day started. Trust me, I am trying to scumhunt by generating discussion and forcing people to take stances on it. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 30 2012 15:36 EchelonTee wrote: RE: Gonzaw Gonzaw, the problem with what you have been advocating (everyone announce votes, we force scummy people to be in majority) is that non-cooperative overconfident players (read: Palmar, Ace), will want to be in the minority, and that doesn't imply that they are scum or town. Simply that they would not want to follow the plan doesn't mean they should be autovig'd. While I do agree that people who announce a vote, but end up voting otherwise should be scrutinized to hell, this sort of hardline plan will not work. @Foolishness: Do you have any ideas that would actually allow town to control how many people end up in the majority/minority (I'm abbreviating that as M/M from now on). PM me if you don't want to put it in thread. @Sandroba: Last time you were town in a PM game you broke the hell out of it; if I don't see similar efforts then it's tunnel city. If those players make it apparent they are town, then there's no problem in leaving them be in the minority. If they don't, then well they should just keep their mouth shuts, suck it up and be in the majority. If they are town it's their own fault for appearing scummy, and if they are scum it will prevent them from creating much chaos and maybe we'll even lynch them on Round B The point of the plan is that they should comply, sacrifice their vote and maybe their opportunity to be in the minority for the greater good of town. I mean, that's the whole premise of "mass plans". Also, remember the actual manga. If everybody works together with trust and shit, then everybody wins very easily. If everybody starts creating chaos, voting randomly, etc, then it makes it harder for town to win. Speaking of which If someone PMs an answer, can they change it afterwards? About people voting random: On April 30 2012 15:19 EchelonTee wrote: Honestly, I just want to randomly put my vote down and focus on scum hunting because whether I'm in the majority or minority, I don't plan on being mislynched. However, since it's starting to seem like scum may try to abuse the system, I'll follow any plan that has decent logic behind it. Meapak, do you not care about any of the plans that have been put forth so far? On April 30 2012 13:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Not I. :d Well then, let's get started. As always, I cynically feel like any plan we hope to enact is doomed to fail so let's just vote how we want to vote for round A. We have a number advantage over scum, so voting randomly (according to how we feel) will put town at the advantage imo. I haven't decided how to use my votes for Phase B yet. I'm still pondering the matter. So if you guys put down your vote randomly just to scumhunt, what happens if the players you figured out were scum end up in the minority? Who will you lynch instead? Will you use Round B for something productive at all? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
For instance, if we unanimously decide that Player X should be lynched (and he's eligible to be lynched of course), then we can do this: Player 1-Gives player nº2 5 votes Player 2-Gives player n3 5 votes ... Player X-does whatever he wants Player X+1-Gives player nºx+2 5 votes .. Last player- Gives player nº1 5 votes Players not in Round B vote whoever they want but not X. That way, the only player lynched will be player X and all the rest will be saved. However this depends on people unanimously deciding to lynch player X and following the plan, which I doubt will happen. We can come up with other things when the time comes, since it also depends on how many people are in Round B. Speaking of which syllo, what do you think about the plans regarding Round A being discussed at the moment? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Just skimmed through the thread, and Palmar's plan seems to catch the gist of the plan I mentioned before. Have scummy people in the majority, and most townie ones in the minority. This seems to fulfill that, and it requires cooperation from people, so it's fine for now and we can focus on scumhunting. I don't really like that the power is on Palmar alone, that introduces quite variance. I doubt he's scum, since I've read games where he was scum and he just spams and trolls on D1. However, even if he's town, he could be easily manipulated by scum, either making him give scum information, or having Palmar make bad calls and reads because of them. That's why I don't like "1-man" plans. I don't know who said it before, but having a small "counsil" of players determining who is in the minority and who isn't is even better, since there will be more players to bounce reads on, and it will be hard for scum to manipulate them, even if one of them is scum. However, I have a better alternative (although I don't think it can be implemented this Round A): Have people Vote in the thread who they want to be in the minority Seems easy enough, people put "##Pardon: Player X" in the thread. We set a deadline (maybe 4-6 hours before Round A ends), and then all votes are taken into account. The players that received more Pardons will be put into the minority (following the same system from Palmar) This takes away the power from Palmar/syllo themselves to determine who is in the minority (which is what many people had problems with), but the core of the system (having townies in the minority, having scummy people in majority) remains the same. Anyways, I'm gonna eat something and read the thread again. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 01 2012 06:09 wherebugsgo wrote: Man if you're town please don't play like you did in LI, because that'll mean I'll be subconsciously ignoring all your posts. I can't believe you seriously think that we should vote for a pardon; it's such a colossal waste of time and it's incredibly easy to manipulate for scum. You can do it the other way round: Have each player vote for 3-5 players that they think should be in the majority. Once the virtual deadline hits, all votes are counted, and those that received LESS votes are put in the minority. That way scum won't actively be able to determine who gets in it or not. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Also: Can we get a filter list? It's almost impossible to search the filter of some players | ||
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gonzaw
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I mostly comes down to cooperation. Townies should cooperate, agree with the plan and sacrifice their vote and opportunity to be in the minority for the greater good. Just like in the manga people need to sacrifice their opportunity to earn profits to work together and save everybody. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
How you should vote will be determined after the "virtual deadline" is set, I'll explain more thoroughly in that post I'm making | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 01 2012 06:15 Ace wrote: Lettuce ask a very zimple question hear: How do you put people in the minority? If enough people agree with a plan then those players will follow it and vote YES or NO depending on what the plan says. If a majority of players follow the plan, it means town as a whole (in a sense) follows the plan, so any townie that doesn't follow it is going against town's wishes, and he should know that. Therefore, that townie will have to comply with town regarding this plan and vote accordingly. If that happens, then every townie will follow the plan (some because of own choice, some because they do it for the greater good), and thus scum will be forced to do it as well. Anybody that doesn't do so is put under heavy scrutiny. In that way, then yes you can get people into the minority. It's just like another lynch, if you are town and end up lynched it's most likely your fault for being scummy. If you are town and end up in the majority this game, it's most likely your fault for being scummy too, so you should shut your mouth and comply with town and get into Round B. Here is what I think: Everybody in the thread makes 3 up to 5 votes on players they think is scum and should be in the majority, just like always: ##Vote: Player X ##Vote: Player Y, etc We will also set a "virtual deadline". It is a deadline where all these "pseudo-votes" will stop being taken into account, and they will be counted. This can be 6 hours before the deadline, or maybe less or more. It should be at some time that it gives people enough time to place their votes (to all timezones and shit). When the "virtual deadline" hits, then we choose the amount of players we want in the minority (4, 5, maybe even 8) depending on how many scum there are, or other plans of ours (or we can set it at a certain number since the beginning), and the players that received the least amount of votes will be put in the minority. How? Read that thing I said above. They cooperate and we force the minority that doesn't agree with it to do so (as in, even if they don't agree they should comply and do it for the sake of town). Then, the most scummy people will be in the majority, the most townie people will be in the minority, and it won't depend on the reads and power of 1 or 2 players alone, but it depends on town collectively. Again, this only works if everybody cooperates and agrees with it, but just like the manga, that's the point of the Liar Game. Just like the manga, you have to trust us that it will work. About VE vs wherebugsgo: After LIII I'm mostly ignoring VE when he "finds scumslips" and "instantly figures someone is scum in the first 10 minutes". VE seems to act like his townie self, or at least like in LIII and not like in LI, so I think his "find" is legit. However it seems stupid as fuck, wbg doesn't openly discuss with VE in PMs and he instantly FoSes him because of that. I don't think wbg is town for now, and I don't see him contributing as I'd hope for, but if you want to convince me he's scum try harder and actually make a case against him, instead of cloggin up the thread with this "PM" thing you found. Speaking of which, I am suspicious of wbg, because he doesn't seem to contribute too much. He just complains to people and nothing else, doesn't even try to actively scumhunt. At Palmar: Please check that plan I posted, and comment on it. I think it's better than what you are doing, and I don't want you to have all the power, at least not in subsequent days (Day 1 is fine though) Suspicions: Cephiro: Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=183812 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#84 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#87 I found this odd, because you started very aggresively. There were some good plans (mine) floating around, and you behemently opposed them. The point is that you didn't come up with any of your own or try to generate any other discussion. You inserted doubt into plans and just bickered about them, you didn't come up with content of your own. Well, maybe honestly you thought those plans were bad, so that in itself wouldn't bother me. However, you post this: I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass. You are giving the usual "People stop discussing policy lynches/plans/shit and start finding scum!", yet I don't see you following your own advice. When someone asked you for your reads, you said "At the moment I am afraid to tell you I have no reason to share my reads with you.". What? You said we should try and find scum, but you don't want to contribute your reads? You started very aggressive and "keen" to find scum, but you were inactive for some time later and when you came back you didn't put any effort into doing so. I know how you can play as town Cephiro, I observed Death Factory and you were contributing and making plans like crazy. Being this aggresive and indifferent to plans is unlike you. chaoser: Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=41788 I agree with Foolishness with some points, but I'm mostly suspicious of him because of some of the same things Cephiro did: He spends 80% of his effort discrediting other people's plans, he's very aggressive about it, and doesn't seem to put effort in anything else whatsoever. When called out he gets VERY defensive, and even more aggressive against people. Also there's this: On May 01 2012 04:18 chaoser wrote: Before the game started, I was thinking that if I was mafia I would come out of the gate very strong, use the WIFOM of "he's so out there, there's no way he's mafia" card and then make it to day 3 or 4 by way of offering an audacious plan. There's no way such a person wouldn't attract a medic or something, as can be seen in A LOT of TL games (specifically in space station with sandro's strong coming out). Even if I didn't attract a medic, the other mafia family probably won't shoot me because they'd fear a medic protect anyway. It was more of a solo plan that I was thinking about but having another person along would make it even more "out there". Mafia win the game by outnumbering townie, not by having as many people stay alive till the end. If mafia can waste enough time to get to LYLO, it doesn't matter what the town does since it's very rare for town to play perfectly once LYLO is reached, especially if mafia has been defending townies as well as teammates. So much WIFOM at LYLO means mafia will probably win. That's how I always play as mafia; go look at that game where Ver was badass professor. Had mafia pushed that last lynch on a townie instead of on me, town would have been at LYLO and would have been fucked. Barundar and GM had believed and supported me the whole way, they were definitely going to be mislynched sooner or later. Even if most of my team was lynched after reaching LYLO, mafia would have probably won. That's why as soon as palmar busted out with his plan, I was very very suspicious because it was going down exactly how I thought a mafia would play it. Having one person in power in this game is actually really bad Seems quite a farfetched reason to justify his FoS on Palmar. It also seems odd that he's using it as a reason for him being town. It's like if I said "Before the game started, I knew that if I rolled scum I would PM everybody, create a fake town circle and give everybody miss-information, I would get mass-claims from everybody, I would control the thread atmosphere and have nobody suspect me at all and coast to victory flawlessly. Obviously that isn't happening therefore I'm town". He's overstating his scum play so he can convince people he's town, and I doubt a townie would do that (well, a townie other than wbg/Ace/those guys). Those are the guys I'd want to lynch for now, hopefully they get in the majority. I will check other players too...at least when i get the filter list >_> | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
For now I believe we should follow Palmar's plan, because we don't have time to do anything else. That means, those "Pardoned" vote NO, and the rest vote YES, at least just for today. We can talk more about what plan to implement on Night 1 and Day 2 Round A. So I'll vote NO | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote: K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player. Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up? No, I said that the method for creating this pool should be done by the whole town with the Voting system I specified. Can you at least read my posts? Also, I want you guys opinion on chaoser and Cephiro, we need to find scum too, not just talk about plans. | ||
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