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[G] Rushing Relentlessly: A Guide to Zerg vs Zerg

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
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TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-26 04:10:10
February 08 2012 23:06 GMT
#1
[G] Rushing Relentlessly: A Guide to Zerg vs Zerg

[image loading]


Hello Team liquid! I'm very excited to present a strategy guide on my best and favorite matchup: ZvZ.

If you've played or watched any ZvZ, you likely know that it's a fast-paced, explosive matchup – the majority of games end quite early with one or two base play. I'm sure most of us have been involved in those infamous (arguably annoying) zergling/baneling wars, and experienced the excruciating pain after looking away from your army for a split second, only to return to see all your units have died to 1 baneling.

As a result of these silly ling-baneling battles, and the overall dynamic of the matchup, ZvZ just feels flimsy for a lot of players – many describe it as a coinflip or rock/paper/scissors. So many people just do the one base baneling all-ins, early pool rushes, or the Destiny style roach/zergling all-in. Obviously these styles can win you games, but it's very one-dimensional and not likely to help you improve. It will please you to know that this guide will focus on a banelingless style of ZvZ, using well-planned timing attacks to secure map control while you drone and prepare another timing attack. Even if you're a macro player, the most important concept to take away from this guide is droning with map control as opposed to droning blindly.

You can do this by utilizing 3 highly-optimized timing attacks:

5:45 - 22 Speedlings arrive at opponent's expansion
6:00 – 42 Speedlings
9:00 – 8Roach/60+ Timing Attack


You've all probably guessed why I love this matchup: it's my mindset that You cannot be too aggressive in ZvZ. I've never heard a player say “I need to play more passive in ZvZ, I think I'd win more.” No, I want you to be as relentless as possible and if you start losing the occasional game by attacking too much, you should pat yourself on the back and say “That was good, but next time I'll attack more.” Aggression thrives in ZvZ and choosing the right build order and unit composition is an essential first step. In this guide I'll provide the build order, timings, and execution I've used to turn a matchup many consider to be a “flimsy, rock-paper-scissors, coinflip” into a near-lock.

And even if you don't fancy yourself a particularly aggressive player, you'll see that taking the initiative and attacking first can often present you with opportunities to drone and secure advantages.

Reddit Link:

+ Show Spoiler +
Reddit: Rushing Relentlessly - Please Upvote!


Four-Part Zerg vs Zerg Stream Tutorial:

+ Show Spoiler +
1) The Opening + Ling Push: http://www.twitch.tv/tangsc/b/307938006
2) The Transition + Roach/Ling Push: http://www.twitch.tv/tangsc/b/307940830
3) Transitioning AFTER the roach/ling: http://www.twitch.tv/tangsc/b/307944502#
4) How to hold early pool or 1-Base all-ins: http://www.twitch.tv/tangsc/b/307949263


The Opening Build Order

+ Show Spoiler +
Note: Stream Episode 1 analyzes the opening and initial zergling push

This build is a very refined way to optimize zergling count by the 6 minute mark. If you do the build perfectly, you should have 22 Zerglings with speed moving out when speed is done (5:30). This is a crucial window to do damage to your opponent's queens, morphing banelings, vulnerable roaches. The more damage you do, the more likely your follow-up 42 Zerglings at 6:00 will end the game. Often, this massive ling count will be enough to do crippling damage if you think that you've done crippling damage you can continue streaming lings after 42 supply.

15Pool
15Gas (Rally 14th Drone)
17Expansion Hatch
16Queen
18Overlord
@100Gas speed, remove from geyser.
18-21 Zerglings (Queen + 6Lings)
21 Queen (First queen pops, inject and move to expo)
23 Overlord (Optional Spine Crawler)
23-31 Zerglings (First inject goes into all lings, try to hide these from opponent's scouting lings. If you want to macro, you could cut lings here and start droning)
31 Overlord
31-42 Zerglings (Rallied to opponent's expansion)
42+ Drones/Transition OR Commit to a Zergling All-In


The Opening Execution:

+ Show Spoiler +
Your initial overlord MUST scout your opponent's expansion by the 4min mark. If he's expanded, you're absolutely going to put on oodles of pressure. I will go over responses to 1-base play in stream episode 4.

Your first queen and 6 lings will hold any 2base 14/14 pressure.

As soon as your speed finishes (~5:30), it's time to move out. You want to take those initial 22 Lings to your opponent's expansion right away. Banelings and roaches are possible at this stage, but in small numbers.

Use 1 ling to pick off individual banelings if you can, 2-3 lings to focus fire morphing banelings. Don't think that because you see zergling, baneling, or roach defense you have to retreat - remember you have a second wave for a total of 42 Lings on the way so don't be afraid to try to surround roaches, pick off banelings, engage in ling on ling battles, and kill queens. Any damage you can do is great. A LOT of games can be won with this first push, and if you feel like you're going to win, just stream lings until you do.

The most important thing while you're attacking is to keep up with queen injects, overlords, and either zergling or drone production. Even though you're microing actively with your lings, you should keep your keyboard hand busy as well – the more multitasking the better.


The Roach/Ling Transition:

+ Show Spoiler +
Note: Stream Episode 2 covers the roach/ling transition

At 42 supply, you should have an idea if your lings will be enough to win. If he's spined up and using baneling/queen/ling defense, for example, you'll respond by transitioning into roaches:

A food supply build order becomes irrelevant here, as it depends on how many lings you lose. As a general rule, follow these if you feel like your lings give you map control:

1) Produce 4-8 Drones
2) Refill Gas, Start a warren (Rule of thumb: 6:30-7:00)
3) Produce 2-6 Drones and overlords while warren builds (only build drones if you feel safe, otherwise make lings)
4) Make 6-8 Roaches right when warren finishes, rally point onto roaches and move out, producing zerglings to reinforce.

Keep in mind that you could just build the 6-8 roaches and play defensively to drone up, get an evo chamber, and move into standard mid-game with infestor/roach or muta.


The Roach/Ling Execution:

+ Show Spoiler +
I recommend hotkeying the roaches as 2, with lings following the roaches / hatcheries rallied onto the roaches.

If you have the lings following the roaches, you don't have to do excessive ling micro – they'll for the most part engage correctly.

However, it is important to hotkey the lings as 1 so that you can pull them back quickly if you see banelings.

If there's no banelings, A-move and do a bit of focus-firing with roaches onto any spines but don't overdo it.

If there are banelings, let the roaches absorb the banelings then a-move with lings when it's safe.


What if I don't win with Roach/Ling?

+ Show Spoiler +
Note: Stream Tutorial 3 covers what to do if the roach/ling fails

This is where individual play-style may vary. You could theoretically continue to stream roaches / lings with all your resources until you win or lose. However, I think it's important to have a point where you stop reinforcing with lings and start producing drones (remember you're not that far from full 2base mineral saturation).

Here is an example of a "desperation mode" transition with a reasonable chance of success:

Step 1: Cut zerglings and go for 38 drones (full 2base mineral saturation, 6 drones mining gas/two geysers)

Step 2: Start a macro hatch

Step 3: Start a 3rd queen

Step 4: Use all your gas on roaches, and use 3queens 3hatch to mass Zerglings rallied to the roaches.

Step 5: Rally hatcheries onto roaches and go for a huge timing attack off 3 hatch.

Step 6: (Optional) Drone up, start a lair a lair, 2 evo chambers, and your last two gas while you push.

Here are a few examples of this transition:
http://drop.sc/163571
http://drop.sc/163572


Holding Early Cheese/Pressure:

+ Show Spoiler +
Note: Stream Episode 4 focuses exclusively on holding early cheese/1-base all-ins.

1) If he goes for a 1-Base Ling/Bane All-In (14/14 or so):

Example game: http://drop.sc/163772
Step 1: Scout the expansion by the 4Min Mark.(Ling scout later to see unit composition seeing no expo by 4:00 and lings streaming across the map is a good indication).

Step 2: Build 1-2 spine crawlers in your main after your overlord on 23 Supply. (If you get two, you can leave one in your main and move one down to expansion)

Step 3: Produce nothing but speedlings. (You can actually engage in ling on ling battles, but you'll probably use these to counter attack when he tries to bust)

Step 4: Produce a 3rd queen at your expansion. (Queens and spines are your key defenses for your expo)

Step 5: Transfer 1 Spine down to your expansion, bring your main queen down there too. Optional: Wall ramp with 2 queens with spine in range. (Since you build a 3rd queen and a spine, you don't need to be injecting your main constantly – you wont have minerals to use that much larva, so all 3 queens can be at your expansion)

Step 6: (Optional/Situational) Counter-attack with your speedlings, use your queens/reinforcing lings/spines to defend the pressure.

2) If he goes for a roach or roach/ling 1-Base All-In:

Step 1: Scout the expansion by the 4 Min Mark. (Ling scout later to see unit composition).

Step 2: Laugh internally, because you've already won. You should have a big grin on your face when you see 1 base roaches.

Step 3: Build 1 Spine Crawler in your main at 23, similar to the 1-base baneling style.

Step 4: Produce nothing but speedlings.

Step 5: Transfer the spine down to your expansion.

Step 6: Use your enormous speedling count and a-move into his army when he's near your spine.

Step 7: Execute your usual ling timing attack.

3) If he hits you with an early-pool:

Step 1: Scout the lings coming to your base with overlords.

Step 2: Start a spine, queen, and 2 sets of lings right away.

Step 3: PULL AWAY your drones. Don't panic and a-move, just patiently wait for some zerglings to pop.

Step 4: Engage with 4 zerglings and 14-16 Drones.

Step 5: Reposition your spine, continue producing lings with any minerals, and use all you have to kill his units and spine.

Step 6: Get that 16 drone saturation, 2 queens, and an expansion. Move into the usual ling timing attack.


Game Sample/Style Overview:

+ Show Spoiler +
For all you visual learners...
Game One vs Ruby: (2Base Baneling Counter-attack)
http://drop.sc/107050

Game Overview: Opponent expands and opens with zergling/baneling. My initial ling/baneling timing attack is able to do damage, but he quickly responds with a 2base ling/bane counter. Rather than engaging at my natural, I counter attack with my lings and use my roach/ling reinforcements to clean up his timing attack. Once my base is safe, I move out with my roaches, rally my lings, and execute a game-ending Roach/Ling timing.

1) 15Pool:
[image loading]

2) 15 Gas:
[image loading]

3) 17 Hatchery:
[image loading]

4) 16 Queen:
[image loading]

5) 17 Overlord:
[image loading]

6) At 100 Gas, remove drones from geyser and start speed:
[image loading]

7) Notice, 16 Drones mining 2 per patch in main (Ideal Saturation):
[image loading]

8) Start 6xLings right when overlord finishes on 18:
[image loading]

9) Queen pops, inject and move to expansion. Start 2nd queen on 21, then overlord on 23:
[image loading]

10) If you don't know what your opponent is doing, build a defensive spine on 23:
[image loading]

11) Use first larva inject to produce a lot of lings. At 5:00, 2nd queen finishes and it's time to double-inject:
[image loading]

12) Queen and 6 lings easily hold scouting/harassing zerglings off a 13-15Pool:
[image loading]

13) When in doubt, ling scout – make sure to see know whether he's expanding and hopefully whether he has roach, banelings, and/or a lot of zerglings:
[image loading]

14) Position spine at expansion to defend counters, move out and set rally:
[image loading]

15) Engage the front, drone with map control:
[image loading]

16) Build as many drones as feel safe to (usually 6-10), refill gas and start a warren by 6:30:
[image loading]

17) Use spines and lings to defend zergling counter-attack:
[image loading]

18) Seeing him morphing banelings, counter-attack instead of engaging ling vs bane:
[image loading]

19) Start building roaches and lings to help defend your main from his attack:
[image loading]

20) Prioritize killing workers and queens with zergling runbys:
[image loading]

21) Continue producing units to clean up his push while microing lings around to kill drones:
[image loading]

22) Eventually your reinforcements will clean up his attack and you can prepare your counter-attack:
[image loading]

23)Set rally onto roaches, push out and produce speedlings to reinforce:
[image loading]

24) Reinforcing lings can be used to defend counter-attacks:
[image loading]

25) Roaches arrive, opponent departs.
[image loading]


More Replays:

+ Show Spoiler +

Note: The stream tutorials above are meant to be video analysis for this guide. I review recent replays against all the possible Zerg styles.

More info on this style can be found in my old TL guide on ZvZ:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274426

Season 7 Replays:
http://drop.sc/163564 (vs Nerchio)
http://drop.sc/165658 (vs Dimaga)
http://drop.sc/161020 (vs OGWutsZurg)
http://drop.sc/163772 (vs 14/14 Ling Bane All-in)
http://drop.sc/163775 (vs 2base Ling/Baneling)
http://drop.sc/163571
http://drop.sc/163572


Season 6 Replays:
http://drop.sc/116315
http://drop.sc/112730
http://drop.sc/112724
http://drop.sc/112726
http://drop.sc/117946
http://drop.sc/117945
http://drop.sc/117944

Season 5 Replays:
http://drop.sc/107399
http://drop.sc/107400
http://drop.sc/107402

Here is a ZvZ Replay pack from seasons 3-4 at GM level:
http://drop.sc/55499 (Raine)
http://drop.sc/55503 (Computer)
http://drop.sc/55496 (YanagiNagi)
http://drop.sc/55485 (Goswer)
http://drop.sc/55482 (sKsDhalism)
http://drop.sc/54766 (ZeroSkill)
http://drop.sc/54765 (ZelNiq)
http://drop.sc/54760 (Unyb)
http://drop.sc/54759 (TylerDurden)
http://drop.sc/54757 (Sushi)
http://drop.sc/54755 (Secretasnman)
http://drop.sc/54753 (REQShuffle)
http://drop.sc/54751 (PPGbubbles)
http://drop.sc/54743 (Inflowlooky)
http://drop.sc/54740 (FruitDealer)
http://drop.sc/54738 (FitzyHere)
http://drop.sc/54737 (FitzyHere2)
http://drop.sc/54732 (Element)
http://drop.sc/54730 (DarkChigo)
http://drop.sc/54727 (clSBellini)
http://drop.sc/54724 (BuBuKitty)
http://drop.sc/54723 (bnYdice)
http://drop.sc/54722 (bnYdice2)
http://drop.sc/54721 (BlackMamba)


Discussion Questions

+ Show Spoiler +
1) Can you think of some other viable transitions after either the zergling opening or the roach/ling timing?

2) What makes this build different from other "one-dimensional" 14/14 baneling all-ins, early pool rushes, or the Destiny style Roach/Ling all-in?

3) How can a player optimally defend this?

4) Could the build be used in other matchups?


Guide Feedback:

+ Show Spoiler +

I've included a poll to help me learn from my mistakes and produce better content. Please contribute any feedback so that I can improve the quality of future guides:

Poll: How helpful is this guide (1-5) Please post reasoning in comments!

5 - Excellent Guide, concise information, extremely helpful (114)
 
64%

4 - Solid Guide, good analysis, pretty helpful (29)
 
16%

1 - There is nothing to be learned from you, Tang. You're ruining eSports. (17)
 
10%

3- Average Guide, probably going to help some people. (12)
 
7%

2 - Some helpful material, but overall not very informative (5)
 
3%

177 total votes

Your vote: How helpful is this guide (1-5) Please post reasoning in comments!

(Vote): 5 - Excellent Guide, concise information, extremely helpful
(Vote): 4 - Solid Guide, good analysis, pretty helpful
(Vote): 3- Average Guide, probably going to help some people.
(Vote): 2 - Some helpful material, but overall not very informative
(Vote): 1 - There is nothing to be learned from you, Tang. You're ruining eSports.




Thank you all for taking the time to read this guide, if you have any questions/comments please post them!

- Tang

Courtesy of www.TangStarcraft.com
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
tQGordok
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada4 Posts
February 08 2012 23:17 GMT
#2
Looks Awesome Tang!
All Noobz Ez
peonsc2
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada9 Posts
February 08 2012 23:18 GMT
#3
really good guide i'm gonna go use it on ladder right now. i usually have the same style of counter attacking vs baneling all ins, but i never thought of following it up with roach timing.
Marines are the counter to banelings
pac.558
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada90 Posts
February 08 2012 23:24 GMT
#4
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 08 2012 23:26 GMT
#5
On February 09 2012 08:24 pac.558 wrote:
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking

That's a bit of a silly comment, considering the replays are all against top-notch master/GM players. This is not a build that can easily be stopped, assuming your execution is solid.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Depetrify
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
978 Posts
February 08 2012 23:30 GMT
#6
On February 09 2012 08:24 pac.558 wrote:
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking


I agree with this. Zerg isn't suppose to be played this way. And most of those people aren't that great, your MMR isn't very high.

It might work often because people don't expect an aggressive zerg.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 23:46:32
February 08 2012 23:31 GMT
#7
Is there a reason every single replay is like over 100 days old?


Yang - 230 days
computer - 293 days
raine - 97 days
goswer - 223 days
dhalism - 231 days
blackmamba - 170 days
dice - 107 days
darkchigo - 163 days
fitzy - 98 days


So which ones did you say are recent? That's top bottom and middle?




I think ZvZ is about the only matchup that you can have a high win rate in playing a style like this.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Depetrify
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
978 Posts
February 08 2012 23:33 GMT
#8
On February 09 2012 08:31 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Is there a reason every single replay is like over 100 days old?

I think ZvZ is about the only matchup that you can have a high win rate in playing a style like this.


Tang is one of those players that's scared to play the game.

(I mean this in the least offensive way possible)
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 08 2012 23:33 GMT
#9
On February 09 2012 08:30 Depetrify wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 08:24 pac.558 wrote:
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking


I agree with this. Zerg isn't suppose to be played this way. And most of those people aren't that great, your MMR isn't very high.

It might work often because people don't expect an aggressive zerg.

The first game is against Sheth! One of the best zerg players in SC2 lol. You're entitled to your own opinion about "how zerg is supposed to be played," but SC2 is not so black-and-white.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-26 13:00:28
February 08 2012 23:34 GMT
#10
On February 09 2012 08:31 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Is there a reason every single replay is like over 100 days old?

I think ZvZ is about the only matchup that you can have a high win rate in playing a style like this.

I've uploaded more recent replays (season 5-7), and the stream episodes are mostly from this season.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Depetrify
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
978 Posts
February 08 2012 23:35 GMT
#11
On February 09 2012 08:33 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 08:30 Depetrify wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:24 pac.558 wrote:
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking


I agree with this. Zerg isn't suppose to be played this way. And most of those people aren't that great, your MMR isn't very high.

It might work often because people don't expect an aggressive zerg.

The first game is against Sheth! One of the best zerg players in SC2 lol. You're entitled to your own opinion about "how zerg is supposed to be played," but SC2 is not so black-and-white.


I just think you should stop teaching people how to "play" the metagame.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 08 2012 23:37 GMT
#12
On February 09 2012 08:35 Depetrify wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 08:33 TangSC wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:30 Depetrify wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:24 pac.558 wrote:
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking


I agree with this. Zerg isn't suppose to be played this way. And most of those people aren't that great, your MMR isn't very high.

It might work often because people don't expect an aggressive zerg.

The first game is against Sheth! One of the best zerg players in SC2 lol. You're entitled to your own opinion about "how zerg is supposed to be played," but SC2 is not so black-and-white.


I just think you should stop teaching people how to "play" the metagame.

And I think you should be more open minded to styles that you haven't experimented with at all!
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Parodoxx
Profile Joined May 2010
United States549 Posts
February 08 2012 23:38 GMT
#13
On February 09 2012 08:24 pac.558 wrote:
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking

Watched this exact build beat stephano on stream today.
The funny thing was the player said he learned the build from stephano who then said he learned it from Nestea.
If you feel this timing only beats bad players your an idiot especially when the build is being posted by a pro.

Thanks Tang
Depetrify
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
978 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 23:40:17
February 08 2012 23:38 GMT
#14
On February 09 2012 08:37 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 08:35 Depetrify wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:33 TangSC wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:30 Depetrify wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:24 pac.558 wrote:
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking


I agree with this. Zerg isn't suppose to be played this way. And most of those people aren't that great, your MMR isn't very high.

It might work often because people don't expect an aggressive zerg.

The first game is against Sheth! One of the best zerg players in SC2 lol. You're entitled to your own opinion about "how zerg is supposed to be played," but SC2 is not so black-and-white.


I just think you should stop teaching people how to "play" the metagame.

And I think you should be more open minded to styles that you haven't experimented with at all!


No, there is nothing to argue about. This is one of those things that if the opponent knows is coming it can be easily stopped. There is not much micro to be done with roach/ling/bane (depending on how they try to stop it). I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just stating that its gimmicky play and I'd rather you be doing solid guides.
Oreo7
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1647 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 23:42:03
February 08 2012 23:41 GMT
#15
Isn't this a very one dimensional build that is built around hoping your opponent doesn't know how to stop it?

edit: I only say this because in the op you say that's exactly what you're trying to avoid, and yet it seems like what this is is a very strong aggressive attack that if stopped puts you far behind. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Stork HerO and Protoss everywhere - redfive on bnet
Djeez
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
543 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 23:41:49
February 08 2012 23:41 GMT
#16
The fact that all those guides are super viable really makes me lose faith in Starcraft 2 as a competitive game.
''Watching steppes of war in the gsl would be like watching the dreamhack 1.6 finals start out on fy_iceworld. '' -red_b
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 08 2012 23:42 GMT
#17
On February 09 2012 08:38 Depetrify wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 08:37 TangSC wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:35 Depetrify wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:33 TangSC wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:30 Depetrify wrote:
On February 09 2012 08:24 pac.558 wrote:
i don't like the fact that all these stategies are based on your opponent sucking


I agree with this. Zerg isn't suppose to be played this way. And most of those people aren't that great, your MMR isn't very high.

It might work often because people don't expect an aggressive zerg.

The first game is against Sheth! One of the best zerg players in SC2 lol. You're entitled to your own opinion about "how zerg is supposed to be played," but SC2 is not so black-and-white.


I just think you should stop teaching people how to "play" the metagame.

And I think you should be more open minded to styles that you haven't experimented with at all!


No, there is nothing to argue about. This is one of those things that if the opponent knows is coming it can be easily stopped. There is not much micro to be done with roach/ling/bane. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just stating that its gimmicky play and I'd rather you be doing solid guides.

Well your opinion is appreciated, and I'm sure many others share it: Solid, defensive zerg has been the standard for a long time and it works very well. But if you watch zerg players like Sen, nestea, drg, sheth, and stephano, you will not see 100% standard/solid builds - you will see roach/ling timings, roach/ling/baneling all-ins, early timing attacks and well-planned transitions. This is the style of zerg I have personally had the most fun and success with, and it's the style I encourage others to use too!
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
February 08 2012 23:43 GMT
#18
This actually seems like a good place to ask this:

Why is it that there are only two zerg players I can think of that don't treat thier play as, "I must be as greedy as humanly possible"? Why are there no zerg players that get some drones, and then units, or spend some of thier larva on workers, and some on units, instead of this I SHALL GET 80 DRONES AND THEN MAKE UNITS UNLESS I HAVE TO MAKE UNITS BEFORE HAND? Why are no zerg players just happy at less than 50 for a while and getting more later? And secondly why are there not a lot of zerg players that relentlessly make sure they never have 7 larva at any hatch for more than a few seconds, and just play hyper aggressive all game long. The only one close to that I can think of is....Julyzerg.

And don't answer "Because that's the way that zerg has to play". That's a stupid answer. It's certainly A way to play, but it isn't THE way.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 08 2012 23:44 GMT
#19
On February 09 2012 08:41 Oreo7 wrote:
Isn't this a very one dimensional build that is built around hoping your opponent doesn't know how to stop it?

edit: I only say this because in the op you say that's exactly what you're trying to avoid, and yet it seems like what this is is a very strong aggressive attack that if stopped puts you far behind. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Totally understand that perspective, it seems like if the attacks don't work you're behind. However, the focus isn't necessarily on attacking and winning - it's on using map control to drone, and planning another timing attack in response to what they do.

For instance: You open mass ling, your opponent goes zergling/baneling to defend. While he's pulled back in his base trying not to die to your 42 Speedlings, you're droning up and preparing the counter to baneling defense - a roach ling timing attack.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
lindn
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden833 Posts
February 08 2012 23:51 GMT
#20
Oh look, another all in guide from the infamous Tang.

Standard stuff as usual.

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