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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On January 30 2012 15:02 Toadesstern wrote: if you now translate 5'9 into something non-americans can understand that'd be great. I really have no idea what that is Man I hope you are trolling... | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
will make my first post after work tom...these times are not euro friendly | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
Reading through the pages and typing my thoughts in the process. If you have additional questions, feel free to ask, I will be online for the next for hours. Also, up for chat and kittens. Kenpachi’s claim: Really neutral to me. As if it never happened. Makes some sense as both scum and town as long as nobody follows (which would be stupid). It’s more like making a zealot and keeping it in base. No tells IMO. BM: Massclaim: Really? I hear you’re a madman, so I don’t book it under scummy yet, but it’s really a strange suggestion. How the fuck is that helping town? CC: Joker claiming. HOLY MECHANICS DISCUSSION + Show Spoiler + Hmm. Tough one. The question here is, if batman would not push scum during day and appear pro town anyways. I mean, he can DT check town at night and be pro town all game long. So let’s keep out vig. However, this discussion reminds me of the one sandro and BC initiated in L. It was definitely scum driven. CC should turn this down or I’ll be on his ass. rgTheSchworz: His vote and posts seem a little odd, but the behavior regarding joker is generally understandable. He posted a confusing in L as well and was scum. Hmm. Will have a closer look here. Toad: Happy korean birthday man. Here’s a sad smiley exclusively for you All in all Adam’s vote explanation is by far the most reasonable, yet. ##vote jaybrundage So long guys. We can do this! PS: There’s another Jay in this game, I’d suggest you guys call me JJ for clarity. Thank god JayJay_90 is not in here… | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 02:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Just woke up, but you know...whatever. And you're surprised I "showed up quick" at the very start of the game? And what I was doing was NOT defending Sheth...I was pointing out Katina's hypocrisy for saying Sheth isn't saying anything. Get real Doc. If you move your vote, I suggest you move it to Kitaman. Yay! The OMGUS-Chameleon is back! VE, you need to stop to vote for everyone who calls you scum. The only reason you don't vote for the doc too is that you only have one vote. Chill, the FUCK, out. | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 02:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Hey JayJay! I haven't voted for anyone yet! How about you chill the fuck out?! yea, but you call kita scum for the very single reason that he called you scum. whatever dude, us tunneling didn't help in L, it won't here...so, I'll chill. but your kita call is still weak. so I'd kind of understand docs vote here, it I haven't seen you play in L. | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 04:56 Jackal58 wrote: Good job Kurumi. You've successfully identified two trolls a noob and a cowboy. Now what? jackal my man, how are things? I trust your opinion since my first game. mind to state your opinion on: Schworz jaybrundage VE? I'll join the fun, if you are ready! | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 05:42 Jackal58 wrote: I believe Radfield confirmed but nothing else. But it may have been Refallen. I gotta go back and look again. If VE is scum he'll scream "lynch me" by day 2. At least he does when he's on a team with me. Maybe I just have that effect on people. rgtheschwartz and Jayb I have no clue. VE: I don’t know if I am allowed to use the word meta after one game. But I feel like he is playing exactly like he did in L. He was town and basically accused everyone who accused him. He did it to me twice, I was nearly losing my mind. So I don’t know if this is a scum tell yet…maybe you are right and he’ll freak day 2. Schworz: I kind of understand what he is trying to do and therefore I feel he’s town. Jaybrundage: I was honestly hoping that somebody can tell me if he is a newer player or a vet. That’s why I was asking. I trusted adam's case on him Radfield didn't do shit yet. Is he normally vocal... | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 06:02 layabout wrote: He normally posts about a page day1, it is not unusual for him to post very little. he is typically aggressive. he has only ever been town he absolutely hates it when you try to "meta" him. Here is a post i made when i was scum about him in a game in which he looked sorta scummy but was town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603¤tpage=32#630 his previous games (which you may want to look at) Election mafia (town) Tl Mafia XLVII (town) Steamship (Tl mafia 46) (town) Newbie mini mafia (town) TL Mafia XLV (town) Hammer mini Mafia (town) wow, thanks dude. I tried to find old games, but it's kind of pointless to randomly click games. gonna have a look now. rad: actively lurking is even more scummy than lurking itself. step up bro | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 06:09 Jayjay54 wrote: wow, thanks dude. I tried to find old games, but it's kind of pointless to randomly click games. gonna have a look now. rad: actively lurking is even more scummy than lurking itself. step up bro EBWOP: Oh, I was talking about rad, not nuke guess that was a misunderstanding. | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 07:27 Toadesstern wrote: Idk, I got the feeling from his conversation with kita that VE might be townie. However he does this omgus as mafia as well because he knows what people think of him. So he literally does shit on purpose because he knows that he's going to get away with doing omgus shit. However he played 2 normal games the last time I saw him as town, so I guess it looks townie for me. But nothing sure. Exactly my thought but I did not want to say something Even the new guys are trolling. Yes I'm looking at you jayjay Still catching up. Palmars post I quoted is where I'm at right now and just saw it when responding to the one jayjay did. wait what? you quote me and start a valid discussion about VE and then go on and say that I am trolling? how so? I read through my filter and didn't find a single troll / troll like post. to the VE thing, he claimed a hit in L, so I was relatively sure that he's green, still he accused everyone like there would be no tomorrow. same here. I am not really feeling like this is a tell. @CC: Wow, this is actually interesting. I already noticed how he'd fire this useless discussion about the batman interpretation. He also makes a statemen how lynching catwoman is worse than lynching scum, something I don't agree with. Catwoman will support red and might just shoot townies, because a scum win is a catwoman win. So IMO lynching her is a KP less. But I don't want to discuss this. Will keep an eye on DocH. There's something about his posts.... also, kurumi more and more jumps into the spotlight: A lot of useless one liners, A list of "Good players" and "People to discuss" without allignment. don't know what this is all about. But I don't like he's interpretation of helping town whatsoever. => step up man, I lose trust. finally, can we please stop discussing this paint image. it's a waste of time. | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 07:55 Kurumi wrote: Hey, at least I am not trying to look like a hero. Sorry Jay, but I don't mind being in the spotlight. I am trying to push the idea of list, but I fail to do it again. I want it to be kind of pass-the-paper thingie, where everyone writes a bit about everyone. The "need to be discussed" means I basically used the dreaded "FoS". I don't mind you being in the spotlight, hell, I don't even mind you spamming with your old pal kenpachi. But I do mind pointless one liners, trolling and basically everything which prevents a town discussion. Granted, I didn't get that your list contained FoS. Maybe I overlooked. Still, your post quality should improve. Also, note that Jay is not the best nick in this game. call me JJ please to avoid confusions. | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 07 2012 07:57 Toadesstern wrote: I thought the - smiley tells you what I'm talking about. I was referring to your "and a - smiley for Toad" post. That's not trolling but you know, like a nice poke at me. We just got massive amounts of shit like that. Not that it's bad, it's d1 after all and I did that as well but it's getting too much right now. Wasn't even meant to be an attack because I thought I laughed when you did that post but we should get going and start serious business. but but but that was my birthday gift. I didn't mean to troll, It was merely a sidenote because we always hung out in mafia L. Ok, back to business then what did you think of DocH posting Toad? Kind of reminded me of BC/Sandro last game... | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
I believe our precious doc is scum. And here’s why: a) Third party talk. I know, I know this was already addressed. And he answered with this post. On February 07 2012 08:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I understand I'm gonna take some heat for my posts about third parties especially when I said early on it shouldn't be our focus. Can I expand on that statement? It's bad for town to focus on role mechanics throughout the whole game, particularly Day 2+. I do think it's a decent way to get discussion going on Day 1, and was I wrong? In this process multiple people have accused each other and some really anti-town ideas have been thrown out around it. Even though I and others have made it quite clear that the third parties shouldn't even shoot, there are still people who like the idea of offering the Joker or take it for granted that BM/CW are just gonna go on a townie killing spree. If anyone remains totally unconvinced or doesn't understand why the DT is the better move for both roles, I will explain that better if you really need me to but you should be able to come to this conclusion yourself as long as you don't have ulterior motives. I'll take heat for talking a lot about the third parties, but as town I think it's pretty important we don't sacrifice our own vig for no gain. I also think it's pretty important we lynch scum instead of third party. Every day that goes by without a lynch of a scum is a wasted lynch. The more lynches we waste, the faster we get to LYLO. It might seem odd to newer players to hear someone say we should essentially ignore a role that is a threat to town, but our goal is to win the game by lynching scum and that is what we should do. Find scum not third parties. It's fine to talk about it when people like CC are trying to kill our vigilantes, it's not fine when people are saying we should not lynch scum. Only to follow it up with the following posts: On February 07 2012 12:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote: @Liquid'Sheth Your first argument is WIFOM, as is mine to be honest. But mafia are the only party that needs to be so defensive and when players start defending eachother like that, it makes me more confident that my initial hunches might be correct. It's just Day 1 and I'm not coming out saying "Gotcha!" with any sense of serious confidence. I don't disagree that it is a stupid thing that Kenpachi does. Your point about Batman is incorrect. Perhaps you don't fully understand the game mechanics. Hopefully this is the last time I have to explain this. Firstly, Batman has an unblockable detective power. It is immune to GF powers. Secondly, he has an unblockable hit, however it will not kill players with the veteran role. It tells him with 100% confidence except in the case, I assume, of millers (who won't show up as hugo/joker anyway) who the person is. It's not "a little bit of detecting then shooting suspects", when he finds the joker or hugo he KNOWS who they are and will hit them the next night. If Batman shoots before detecting, he has a low chance of killing either The Joker or Hugo Strange. If he kills a non-Hugo mafia, he gives town a huge advantage. If he kills a town player, he gives the mafia a moderate advantage. Continuing to shoot like this is bad for Batman, because if either Town OR Mafia win before he does, Batman loses the game. He does not win if town wins. He also does not win if Mafia wins. The only time Batman might use his KP before DT is if one side has an overwhelming advantage and he thinks he can delay the end of the game. Offering up the Joker does not prevent him from shooting more townsfolk, because he has no incentive to do this. Also if he shoots randomly or on his own hunches, he still has as much chance as a town aligned vig does of killing a scum player. It has nothing to do with knowing where people are. Batman (same rules go for Catwoman) has no reason to care who anyone is except for the Joker and Hugo Strange. By offering Batman the joker, we're giving him an early town kill and we might be able to win the game before he gets any town kills or at least have Joker survive long enough to use his hit and be successful with it. It is not in Batman's interest to shoot randomly or to shoot into people he thinks are red/blue because it increases the likelihood that the game ends before he wins. The best scenario for Batman is one in which the mafia hit the Joker early and he only has to find Hugo, or where we lynch Hugo early and he only has to find the Joker. Hopefully, for us, he looks for Hugo first but even if he starts out looking for the Joker, he's just going to be DTing and there's nothing we can really do about it. Giving him the Joker isn't a solution to any problem. Moving on to Cyber_Cheese: Cyber_Cheese's points about Catwoman are wrong. Or maybe it was Tunkeg? Someone said "catwoman should just shoot the most pro-town people", that's not true either. Catwoman should DT until she finds her target then kill them. She doesn't win with scum. If scum win before two-face/penguin are dead then Catwoman loses. Shooting the most pro-town looking people will probably just result in red and green deaths. If you even broadcast that advice or assumption why would two-face and the penguin put themselves in the spotlight? Now Catwoman is in a WIFOM situation where she has to guess what her target is thinking and shooting randomly is unsafe, puts her at a higher risk of losing the game. With the combined full force KP of batman/catwoman/mafia all shooting into "town" (except batman/catwoman don't know who town is, although you guys seem pretty confident they will know implicitly) the game will likely end with scum winning and town with both third parties losing. I'm not going to crunch numbers because I can't do math but I'm guessing of at least one of each candidate surviving to endgame in this scenario are pretty high. I hope that clears things up. I think Cyber_Cheese is either mafia or, more obviously, Batman. I don't know why I didn't put it together before but the player trying to get the Joker offered up scot free with no clear pro-town motives seems like a pretty good bet for me. If he's not third party or scum I'd be pretty shocked. Can anyone link me to some games in which Cyber_Cheese was a town aligned player in memory? After looking at that I might switch votes. I dislike voting for players who attack me because I am very defensive and often in mafia games I get tunnel vision when I'm attacked. But just as often as I've been wrong, I've been right and ever since letting Pandain slip through my grasp in Insane Mafia I've tried to be more confident. @Radfield Asking other people questions and agreeing with WBG doesn't count for much. You were like this in Salem and don't think I'll forget THAT travesty anytime soon. WBG's analysis is okay. Toadesstern should flesh his thoughts out more but I don't think it's particularly scummy. I still believe town players are more likely to second guess themselves or post logical errors than mafia players are. Mafia players have the advantage of information and teamwork, town is uncoordinated and in the dark. I don't think he necessarily contradicted himself talking about me, it seems like he's saying it's the kind of thing that could go either way so it's just inconclusive. On February 07 2012 13:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: The scenario in which it does make sense for Batman or Catwoman to shoot without a conclusive DT check is late-late-late game just before the next day is LYLO or during LYLO. That is when you can't afford to use a DT check because if you don't hit that same night or the next night you will lose. We aren't in this situation so giving up any town player on day 1 (if it's even legal, still need an answer on that) isn't something we should be thinking about at all. On February 07 2012 19:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Catwoman helps scum indirectly. She has no interest in either faction winning until her win conditions are fulfilled, in which case she leaves the game. Seeing her as a threat to town is viable, but she is not scum. We do not get closer to winning by lynching her, we only give the mafia more time to win the game. Kenpachi is this bad in every game jsyk. I'm starting to think he's bad on purpose so that he can always fall back on the excuse of "oh im just bad and do random stuff" whenever he actually rolls mafia. There have been a few cases laid out, put a little more thought into it. Town doesn't win without some serious thought. It's a team effort. You can make statements like this all game as mafia, it's too safe. Let's talk BM. Make a case for his lynch. If you're "happy" to lynch him you must feel pretty good that he's scum right? Seems like you're not really invested in who gets lynched. Uninterested. That's not good. Especially, since the joker claim was apparently no longer an option, he actively fires the mechanics discussion. He also talks about lynching scum instead of lynching third parties, but it’s really not like we have a choice. Town just has to look for the scum. Why does he have to push this hard for a discussion. For those who were in L. This is Sandrobar all over again. The behavior isn’t helping town whatsoever. He even says so himself: “It's bad for town to focus on role mechanics throughout the whole game, particularly Day 2+.”. Why would you post that and follow it up with like 3 word pages of mechanics discussion. To clarify your opinion on a topic which has no relevance in the current situation? Sorry I don’t buy it. More likely to spread discussions about generic stuff which is a good place for scum, because every scum likes it generic. b) Spammy play I want you to look at his filter and see what he did so far (after the freaking batman / catwoman discussion). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=38419 First thing, you’ll notice: WTF? 3 pages? Alright, he has to be contributing. But the more you read, the more you’ll find that he actually didn’t. I already addressed a) so I won’t go into that. But apart from that, you’ll find a little soft (one may call it fluffy) discussion with / against toad and one Ok case on VE which he didn’t really force. I ask you fellow townies, how little can you help town in 2+ pages? Here’s the answer. c) Voting behavior. Tunkeg => VE => Schworz => CC. Already 4 votes. I don’t like that he’s switching that often, but I guess that’s his style. Two vote sticks out to me, though. On February 07 2012 13:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: WBG that was on point, pushing the easiest lynch with no commitment, wishy washy, good call. Voting RG. What I don’t like here, is that you are basically pushing the easiest lynch yourself. Also the timing feels band-wagon-initiating-style. As a vet (He is a vet right?) you should not throw votes on someone that easily because of a (not even that good) case. On February 07 2012 22:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote: ##Unvote rgtheschwortz ##Vote Cyber_Cheese He was actively posting while this happened, still his posts give no indication of why he did this whatsoever. Stealth vote while being online? Can’t see any explaination how you handle votes this way. Especially, if you bother to write everything down which pops into your head (2+ pages). IMO, all he did this game was discussion mechanics, thus talking irrelevant shit for 3 pages now (one OK case on VE (but he unvoted after a brief period of time.). His votes look shitty. I don’t know how he’s helpful in this state and therefore I don’t know how his actions may be town motivated. Even if he is town, his play doesn’t give it away right now. Other than this I want to address three more things. Schworz: He really seemed like the easy d1 lynch, scum would have liked, because of no information gain and bandwagon with (probably) all sorts of people. His first posts are genuinely town to me. This was on mind yesterday, but I guess he’s of the table which I like. Katina: On February 07 2012 17:49 Katina wrote: [/spoiler]These sentences are just plain silly. I don't know why a townie would ever feel the need to become a cheerleader for their own team. So you basically contribute nothing all game long and then you accuse me because my first sentence in the whole game was happy and I phrased “Quit pro quo” a little less formal? Also, you took the second quote completely out of context. You really seem to be looking for something you can’t find. Odd. Palmar: Wow, you contribute. This is lightyears compared to L. I like it. To your list (contains a lot of what I know about the playstyle): VE: 55% agree. His play seems to be scum, but then again he behaves exactly like in L. I feel like there are better options right now. Hiro 95% agree. He was so vocal in L. In spite of being a blue DT. He doesn’t do shit this game and I don’t know why he would switch that playstyle being town when he already showed that he can be vocal as a blue. So yeah, I am up. Sheth 70-75%: Agree. I have trouble reading him. Already had in L. He always seems to not really spend a lot of time with this game. But I guess the arguments vs. him look pretty scummy. Would probably be up for it as well All in all, my vote is on doc: ##Vote DoctorHelvetica. I’ll be up for hero maybe Sheth as well. I’ll be online for the next few hours. So feel free to ask me stuff, chat and discuss. Please leave third parties outside. So long. Layabout: thanks for the games, will look into it. | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 08 2012 03:01 Palmar wrote: DrH is not scum, don't be an idiot is that so? and why is that? I love condescending posts with no reasoning whatsoever. | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On February 08 2012 03:09 Bill Murray wrote: there is a gigantic mason network im a part of that is why i'm claiming a power role i know a confirmed town, as well wait what? so you are masoning? with who? and why does this paint you town? | ||
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