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Hammer Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 19 2012 21:50 GMT
#110
/in
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 20 2012 23:03 GMT
#125
Question: Since this game is instant majority lynch, what is considered a "majority"? Is it # of players / 2, or total voting power across all players / 2?
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 27 2012 02:14 GMT
#298
Honestly, I think the validity of the vote circle plan comes down to a very simple question: Who stands to gain more from a system where voting power is not spread out evenly? I think the answer to that question, for at least the first part of the game, is undoubtedly the mafia. In a set-up where scum KP is very low, but the number of members is relatively high, control of the lynch is huge. Keeping the votes even across all players puts us in the same situation we're in every other game, while moving them around will only allow the balance of power to swing in the favor of the mafia -- and once they have it, they aren't going to lose it due to the trading mechanics.

And just think, once the votes start piling up on a few individuals, we can't be sure they're going to stay in good hands. Mistakes are bound to be made. Do I trust, for instance, Palmar to pick somebody who's town? Yeah, kinda. Do I trust whoever he picks to also do so? That's less likely.

Keep in mind that we don't have the reliability of the flip to hold those with voting power accountable. It's all too easy for just a couple of mafia with a couple extra voting power to slip in and make a majority, and then what?

I want to re-iterate that if we don't hold people accountable for not following the voting circle, things are going to get very bad very fast, because as long as two mafia remain alive they aren't going to lose the lynch. It will only take one or two slip-ups to give the lynch to scum, and at that point it is over. It is for this reason that I am going to ##Vote: Palmar. Put simply: if we want to live, we follow the fucking voting circle.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 28 2012 03:44 GMT
#390
Palmar said that RNGing our votes would still leaving us with a great starting point. Are you kidding me!? That's nearly a third of our spent votes that never leaves mafia hands. That's the key here. Every mistake is irreversible. But it doesn't go both ways! Mafia will never give votes to town unless we force them to from the very beginning. Town only has votes to lose. It DOESN'T MATTER how good we are at giving votes to town players compared to the effectiveness of the circle jerk -- because with the circle jerk, we don't lose ground. But without the circle jerk, we don't have any ground to gain!

The reason the circle jerk is a good plan is that it forces the mafia to play our game. In order to gain an advantage vote-wise, the mafia has to make a choice. Do they kill purely to retain votes? Or do they try to kill strong town players and snipe blues? They only have one KP every night. If I was the mafia, I know which one I'd consider more important.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 28 2012 23:36 GMT
#440
Putting this out there just in case: multiple people have said something along the lines of "the lynch is tonight". That's wrong. We have to make a lynch happen by tonight. Instant majority.

Okay, I still honestly believe the circle jerk is the town's best option by far. It's easy, it's safe, it's enforceable, and I still don't understand why we need to look at where people send their votes when we still have the tried-and-true method of seeing who people actually vote to lynch. But I'm willing to drop it if that means getting a lynch in today -- and it's pretty clear that it's useless if multiple people don't follow it, which is going to happen whether I like it or not.

Reading through WBG's posts, I'm not getting huge scum vibes, but that's at least partially because I agree with much of his logic, which it's clear a lot of people don't. It seems that a lot of the votes going towards him are based on his meta, which I don't know very well. But at the very least he has a strong, stated opinion on a plan, which is something scum would like avoid.

VisceraEyes, on the other hand, has wavered wildly. In-thread, he's gone from supporting the circle-jerk, to being against it, to giving mild support for it again. In the latter case, his opinion changed in the space of a couple of hours. I feel that he isn't figuring out what the actual best approach is, but is instead trying to sneak in with whatever the popular opinion of the time happens to be.

Also, there's this:

I think Palmar is town based almost exclusively on the fact that scummy players like Paperscraps are defending the way he's playing.


Wha? Just... what?

##Vote: VisceraEyes
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 28 2012 23:37 GMT
#442
Oh yeah, I guess I have to ##Unvote: Palmar as well.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 29 2012 00:35 GMT
#453
On January 29 2012 08:52 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 08:36 Node wrote:
Putting this out there just in case: multiple people have said something along the lines of "the lynch is tonight". That's wrong. We have to make a lynch happen by tonight. Instant majority.

Okay, I still honestly believe the circle jerk is the town's best option by far. It's easy, it's safe, it's enforceable, and I still don't understand why we need to look at where people send their votes when we still have the tried-and-true method of seeing who people actually vote to lynch. But I'm willing to drop it if that means getting a lynch in today -- and it's pretty clear that it's useless if multiple people don't follow it, which is going to happen whether I like it or not.

Reading through WBG's posts, I'm not getting huge scum vibes, but that's at least partially because I agree with much of his logic, which it's clear a lot of people don't. It seems that a lot of the votes going towards him are based on his meta, which I don't know very well. But at the very least he has a strong, stated opinion on a plan, which is something scum would like avoid.

VisceraEyes, on the other hand, has wavered wildly. In-thread, he's gone from supporting the circle-jerk, to being against it, to giving mild support for it again. In the latter case, his opinion changed in the space of a couple of hours. I feel that he isn't figuring out what the actual best approach is, but is instead trying to sneak in with whatever the popular opinion of the time happens to be.

Also, there's this:

I think Palmar is town based almost exclusively on the fact that scummy players like Paperscraps are defending the way he's playing.


Wha? Just... what?

##Vote: VisceraEyes


Thats the problem thats how WBG plays. He thinks what a townie would do and tries to imitate them. Thats why its so damn hard to catch him as scum. Hes damn good at it. WBG is very aggressive regardless of his alignment. And hes very convincing. And to be honest why wouldn't scum want to be convincing. By being loud they can carry there agenda easier.


Which games were WBG scum in? I'm considering dropping the hammer on him, but am still unsure. In a no-flip setup, I don't think that a risky lynch is that much better than a no-lynch, though I would still rather see somebody hang in the next half hour. I definitely am not going to vote for sentinel, though.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 29 2012 19:50 GMT
#498
On January 30 2012 04:38 Dirkzor wrote:
So we got no plan for the vote trade? Cool. Good thing we spend the first 2 days talking about that. And why are you arguing over the WBG lynch? Whether he was scum or not is not super relevant right now and you have to way to get the truth.

And we should lynch chaoser...


Discussing a lynch is plenty useful -- and what else are we going to do while we wait for the day post? I mean, obviously the discussion should come before the lynch, but asking people to justify their actions is never a bad idea.

I've got bad feelings about you, but I'll wait for the day post to get into it.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 30 2012 03:10 GMT
#525
I gave [UoN]Sentinel one of my votes. This is because I feel he has been an active, contributing member of the thread and because I didn't like the logic behind the movement to lynch him.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
January 31 2012 09:34 GMT
#694
Yeesh, that's what I get for waiting awhile to catch up. Well, I agree wholeheartedly that VE was scum, so I can't complain. I also feel that LSB is scum -- IMO, it's really telling that he wanted people to give away as many votes as possible night 1. I'm not sure about the other two.

I might not be around until a couple of hours after the day post, but I should definitely be more present than I have been today. Kindly wait for a couple of hours if Palmar decides that I'm mafia.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
February 01 2012 01:20 GMT
#787
I shot LSB. Basically, I'm a one-shot vigi whose target flips.

I also gave a vote to [UoN]Sentinel, for the same reasons as yesterday.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
February 01 2012 02:12 GMT
#821
Yeah, I looked over his posts and I can't imagine a world where layabout is town -- especially since he attempted to stall the VE lynch, defended LSB really hard, and has voting power appearing on him out of nowhere after Palmar (who was 100% town) died.

##Vote: layabout
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
February 01 2012 05:09 GMT
#859
On February 01 2012 13:14 prplhz wrote:
Node, did your hit flip alignment and role or only alignment?.


Only alignment.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
February 01 2012 05:52 GMT
#868
On February 01 2012 14:42 Paperscraps wrote:
So why did Palmar die? Did mafia have a way to bypass a medic/jailer save? or did the medic/jailer try and wifom and save someone else?

I was rb'ed so hmmm.

What do you all think?


I wouldn't be surprised if the same player couldn't be incarcerated twice, or at least not twice in a row. See the Sheriff role in TL Mafia L for a recent example of this. In fact, it sounds like you were jailed last night, since Palmar said that he was roleblocked N1.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
February 02 2012 01:16 GMT
#923
I don't have any votes to send in D:
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
February 02 2012 03:37 GMT
#930
Welp, I got invites to both Dota 2 and Diablo 3 within the space of a few hours. I'm definitely grateful that the day post won't come until tomorrow.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
February 03 2012 01:52 GMT
#990
On February 03 2012 10:14 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 10:03 risk.nuke wrote:
Cool. This means there is till 1 scum remaining?

Ya I am guessing just 1
Visc/Bugs 1 is definitely scum. Most likely Visc.
LSB
Chaoser

Nice shot Node. I wouldn't have had the balls to shoot him. I assume since he flipped you shot him.




I didn't shoot him, I only got one shot.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
February 04 2012 23:56 GMT
#1056
I still think a vote circle would've been the best plan, especially now that we know how the mafia can manipulate votes.

I'm glad you guys outted Jackal, I've been super-busy the past few days. I still enjoyed playing this a lot, and I'm glad I helped town win for once. ^^
whole lies with a half smile
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