• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:02
CEST 22:02
KST 05:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru1BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack0Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation StarCraft 1 & 2 Added to Xbox Game Pass
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO8 - Group B Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 26199 users

Hammer Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 20 2012 14:55 GMT
#117
/in
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 20 2012 20:12 GMT
#122
No flips! I want to start talking strategy, but without knowing the roles it's mere specubation.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 22 2012 10:42 GMT
#134
I'm itchin to get lynchin.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 24 2012 11:51 GMT
#156
On January 24 2012 20:16 Dirkzor wrote:
2 things...

1) You can have a greater voting power then 5 during the day period? If 3 people traded you 3 votes each during the night you could be at 10? Correct?

2) Whenever you vote do you use all your voting power or can you choose to use less then your maximum voting power?


The answer to 1) is going to be yes, but, out of curiosity for 2), when would you want to?
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 25 2012 12:55 GMT
#181
The last person to /out will win. Very meta-gamey.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 25 2012 20:10 GMT
#187
Isn't there another game waiting to go? If host isn't ready or comfortable, start that game instead. We can remake this game when everything is ironed out.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 26 2012 03:10 GMT
#197
Townies, we need a plan. The vote system could cause us problems if we don't stick together. We'll need to ascertain what vote-rigging abilities the scum have, to do this we need a circle of trust. We'll all trade votes in a circle instead of doing it haphazardly. Any vote manipulation by the scum will result in merciless lynching.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 26 2012 04:26 GMT
#201
Ok, we'll use the player roster and trade 1 vote to the person below us like Sentinel said. This gives us a good strategy for vote trading.

If we have no mayor to elect or other policy discussions, what else can we do to for the next 70 hours?
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 26 2012 07:24 GMT
#207
On January 26 2012 16:14 Paperscraps wrote:
How do we know mafia have any abilities at all?


All we know:

Mafia a set KP of 1. The town is penalized by no flips.

And now we play the waiting game....
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 26 2012 12:37 GMT
#220
Is there going to be a thread to vote in linked in the OP or is it just assumed we won't lynch anyone Day 1?
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 27 2012 02:10 GMT
#297
##Vote: risk.nuke
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 27 2012 02:40 GMT
#299
Who should we lynch first: risk.nuke or Palmar?
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 27 2012 06:37 GMT
#309
On January 27 2012 13:02 Paperscraps wrote:

@MeatlessTaco What is your reason for voting up risk.nuke? Also why do you think Palmar is scum? Voting people up with no reasoning is not good.


It is the same reason as the two people directly above me who voted for him.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 27 2012 06:48 GMT
#310
The plan outlined in the first two posts since the game started is the safest town play for the first night. It is the safest because it preserves the most amount of information until/when we can be more aggressive with the vote trading mechanic.

My assumption was that any competent, rationale player would quickly arrive at the same conclusion. Obviously I was wrong. I will re read the counterarguments and try to find the flaw in my logic.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 27 2012 13:47 GMT
#333
On January 27 2012 18:50 Palmar wrote:
Also, are you guys seriously stupid enough to not see the problem with the circle-jerk plan? If this is the way you guys think, I don't have much faith we'll succeed much at all this game. For example, Node should probably die very fast because there's no way he's this dumb. In fact, all townies who lack the critical thinking to see the problem, should die.

Mafia is about making choices. Much more than you can deduce from reading someone's posts and checking if they're doing scummy stuff, you can hold them accountable for their actions. You need to understand the reasoning behind why people do what they do.

What this plan does is remove responsibility. Instead of using analysis and logic to assign our vote, everyone simply gives their vote to whoever they have a town read on. You should keep who you vote for to yourself until the next day, at which point everyone should claim to whom they gave the vote, and why.

Giving votes has the potential to give us information. If a player gives his vote to someone on weak reasoning, or if the player receiving the vote is very likely to be mafia (or at some point flips mafia), we have a reason to investigate that player, based on his actions.

Suggesting we remove the tool of analyzing how and why people give their votes away is terrible. It's anti-town and it should not happen.

If we follow a circle-jerk plan, we remove this aspect of the game, we give mafia a free pass, and a guarantee that they will not lose any voting power. I would hate to be in a situation as scum if I had two options: a) Lose some voting power. b) Make a case as to why I think a scumbuddy is town. That's seriously scary if you're mafia. I mean, good mafia players will have no problem cooking up a good case, but good mafia players are hard to catch anyway.

Apply some brain power, reap rewards.

It's very likely the most town looking people will be protected by medics, providing an even further deterrence for mafia from shooting them. Remember, mafia has to give 4 votes away tonight. It takes 4 townies having the strongest read on scum as town, to balance that out, or otherwise the mafia has to make cases as to why they think their scumbuddies are town. That's hard to do.

do you actually think we're so bad that we can't handle this? I guess the fact that the circle jerk plan got any support at all answers my question though.


I read through the thread to verify how correct I was and saw this again. The original thought I had was that I didn't think we could make an informed decision before N1 on who to give our vote to. I think this was a reasonable assumption at the time, and the first 6 posts were 6 people signing up for the Circle of Trust.

The other mistake was I assumed mafia would have vote-rigging, ballot-stuffing, chad-hanging abilities. No one else has had this concern so I was likely wrong.

So, do we think we can make a better than random guess during Night 1 on who to give our votes to?

The Circle of Trust was never supposed to be for all game, just to limit the damage to town until we had enough information in a no-flip, closed game.

My only reservation is that since mafia only has 1 KP, we might get too aggressive too quick with vigs and such blowing our loads too early.


MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 28 2012 22:17 GMT
#432
Why was VE's read on paperscraps so bad?

On January 27 2012 16:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
I vote D1 we circle jerk and see what happens. Just saying "oh you know, there will be people who don't want to follow the plan" the way LSB did excuses that kind of behavior - the plan doesn't work unless we all agree to it. If we can't come to a consensus, then we're all going to just have to do whatever the fuck, and I already know where my votes are going in the event that happens.

Now, the lynch.

##Vote: Paperscraps

Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 13:02 Paperscraps wrote:
@Palmar When you get done with your whole "I'm a badass" routine, can we hear some reasoning behind why you are against the circle trade system? or anything that is actually constructive at all?
+ Show Spoiler +
I understand you are being crazy right now to tests people reactions and stir up a bit of commotion.



This set off alarm bells. My main problem is that he doesn't sound like someone with a town read on Palmar. He sounds like someone who already knows Palmar's alignment is town.

I'm going to be honest - I'm also starting to think Palmar is town, but it's not based on a belief that I think he's acting scummy to test reactions. It could be, but that's not why. I think Palmar is town based almost exclusively on the fact that scummy players like Paperscraps are defending the way he's playing.

Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 13:02 Paperscraps wrote:
@Everyone I have another idea for trading votes. I want to bounce it off you guys to see what you think. The main idea behind the circle trading system is to keep an even spread of votes across all players. They way we have it setup, the mafia will get to pick and choose who they want to give more vote(s), either townie or fellow mafia. One way to kind of keep the mafia on their toes is to split up everyone into 5 groups of 3. Then during the night you choose at random who you would like to give vote(s) too.

My thinking behind this is that it gives mafia less information as to where votes in particular are going. Randomness though is a double edged sword. This can either hurt town or hurt mafia.




So, it seems almost everyone is on board with the 1 vote circle trade system. I think this is the best way to minimize mafia tampering and vote gaining. If anything it severely stifles their ability to accrue a mass amount of votes over the course of one night, which is a possibility if some mafia seems particularly pro-town to the majority of people.


In the first paragraph he outlines a needlessly convoluted plan with the main goal of "keeping the mafia on their toes" by "randomly choosing" who votes go to within smaller groups of townies.

But in the second paragraph, he makes sure to agree with the circlejerk plan. Why? If you support the circle-voting plan then why are you coming up with more options? The day is half over bro, it's time to start thinkin about that LYNCH.

Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 13:02 Paperscraps wrote:


My FoS is on MeatlessTaco right now.


But not your vote. Why? Whether we've come to a consensus on how to deal with the votes or not, we still have to lynch someone today. That starts with votes. Now, I agree that MeatlessTaco doesn't look great with his lack of reasoning for his votes and blatant sheeping, but lynch? Not to mention the fact that you're in favor of this circlejerk plan...but...

Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 12:10 MeatlessTaco wrote:
Townies, we need a plan. The vote system could cause us problems if we don't stick together. We'll need to ascertain what vote-rigging abilities the scum have, to do this we need a circle of trust. We'll all trade votes in a circle instead of doing it haphazardly. Any vote manipulation by the scum will result in merciless lynching.


It was MeatlessTaco's idea! He was the first to suggest it! If it's "the best option", then why are you the most interested in lynching the person who brought it up first? My guess? He doesn't even realize that MT brought it up first. He's just looking for the easiest target, and right now that's someone who suspects Palmar and voted risk.nuke for no reason.

Paperscraps is scum



Paperscraps' convoluted mini-group thing was never going to work and just impeded any kind of actual plan. He gives an inane analysis in the role of randomness in the game and then leaves an himself an out.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 28 2012 22:54 GMT
#436
If Sentinel is actually really clever, this scares me

On January 28 2012 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 28 2012 03:30 LSB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 03:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
EDIT: Didn't see the post LSD made after he voted for me. Is it assigned, like (X with 5 votes is going to vote for Y with 1 vote, Z with 7 for W with 1, etc.) or is it just the person with 1 vote that you trust the most as town?

Person with 1 vote who you most trust as town.

So if N2 it is

A: 3
B: 3
C: 3
D: 1
E: 1
F: 1
G: 7
H: 5
I: 1
J: 1
K 3
L: 3

A, B, C, K, L will transfer 2 votes to one of A,B,C,K,L,D,E,F,I,J
G will transfer 4 votes to one of D,E,F,I,J
H will transfer 2 votes to one of D,E,F,I,J
'

Alright then, sounds good. In that case, one more question. This is probably the last thing that's keeping me attached to circlejerking.

If mafia are acting pro-town and get votes (say G and H are mafia, other two could exchange votes), couldn't they possibly have a lylo day 3?

Say A B G and H are all mafia. Day 3, 43 VP left in the game. Day 2 mafia had 18 VP, if either B or C receives votes (and G and H circulate to B and C as well), it would be 20 mafia and 23 town.

On January 28 2012 03:33 LSB wrote:

Let me simply it

Your first plan is the obvious plan. It is really obvious. It doesn't say anything about your alignment

Your second plan circlejerking night 1 and night 2 but free for all night 3 is deceptive and has a very effective counterplan. That's why I think you are mafia

Your third plan is like your second plan, but the counterplan isn't as easy. It is still worse than my plan


I was concerned more about how many votes to circle (1 or 2), and again I said first 2 nights before everyone started talking about day 3 lynch or lose scenarios.



The whole idea behind the Circle of Trust was not to lose as town by avoiding worst-case scenarios on the first night. Suggesting trading 2 votes a night in a mafia-exploitable way is horrible. Obviously, he backs away as soon as he is called on it. This could be just bad logic, but if others think he is actually pretty clever, then this is really scummy.

##Vote: [UoN]Sentinel

MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 28 2012 23:03 GMT
#437
On January 29 2012 07:48 prplhz wrote:
@MeatlessTaco

Pot, kettle, black, your vote is STILL on risk.nuke. Am I calling for your lynch because you are terribly wrong about him? It's not necessarily scummy to be wrong. What happened to your "I thought it was logical so I don't need to give reasonable, everybody can figure it out" and why are you suddenly all "Is it just me or <drep>"?

What is your opinion on wherebugsgo and VisceraEyes?


I was really trying to bully through the Circle of Trust idea and was hoping to steam roller it through. Without 100% support I don't like the idea.

My response to Palmar's post about forcing mafia into decisions should have included a risk.nuke devote.

I read through VE's filter and didn't see anything bad. I reread the case against Sentinel and his filter and put my vote there.

I haven't been looking at wherebugsgo, I'll have to go back and look.

MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 28 2012 23:13 GMT
#438
Multipost, have to run for a bit...

wherebugsgo analysis for the Circle of Trust was the most clear and logically consistent of anybody. I don't mind his starting the risk.nuke bandwagon at the time. There were so many bad suggestions in this thread, none of them are WBG's.
MeatlessTaco
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States302 Posts
January 29 2012 01:02 GMT
#469
On January 29 2012 09:52 LSB wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Night 1: Free Trade
[image loading]


Tonight is free trade! Please give your votes to anyone who you think is town. DO NOT announce your votes in thread. Wait until daybreak after all of the votes have been transferred. Once day two come, everyone must post how many votes they gave away and to whom they gave votes away to.

Please give away two of your votes. + Show Spoiler +
This is for two reasons
1) Giving away two of your votes eliminates looses if you get nightkilled. Even if you don't think you are a high target, mafia could always bluesnipe.
2) People with 1 vote only are extreamly crucial during re-balancing. During Night 1, people with 1 vote are the ones who would receive votes from people with 3+ votes in order to ensure that the vote distribution stays roughly equal. So if you are left with only 1 vote Day 2, there is a high likelyhood that you would have 3+ votes Day 2.


Am I taking crazy pills or is this a really bad idea?
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
19:15
Quarter Finals
Hejek vs Herbmon
Semih vs Kyrie
cavapoo vs TousaN
ZZZero.O90
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 648
UpATreeSC 108
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 5466
Sea 1542
Dewaltoss 178
ZZZero.O 90
Aegong 60
Dota 2
Pyrionflax136
Counter-Strike
fl0m6991
olofmeister3436
rGuardiaN120
Super Smash Bros
PPMD35
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby2204
Liquid`Hasu559
Khaldor184
Other Games
tarik_tv43337
gofns14803
FrodaN943
Beastyqt721
ceh9554
shahzam336
ZombieGrub77
Mew2King77
TKL 68
QueenE54
Trikslyr47
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream1372
Other Games
BasetradeTV111
StarCraft 2
angryscii 53
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta29
• Reevou 5
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 6
• FirePhoenix6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21738
League of Legends
• Jankos2039
• TFBlade1408
Other Games
• imaqtpie1255
• Shiphtur354
• Scarra298
• WagamamaTV164
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
3h 58m
GSL Code S
13h 28m
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 5h
GSL Code S
1d 13h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
1d 13h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
OSC
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
[ Show More ]
SOOP
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Cheesadelphia
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.