Only guacamole <3 Barrin.
You finally decided to publish your secret map.
Well right now I don't see any problem and If you need tester, I would gladly test it for you. Only concerns are how the mini map will be and how much you write, even it's not one of your longest(I dare you to make the longest post in the world of TL

)

In one word, I would use is Awesome map.

FlaShFTW

United States10534 Posts

October 31 2011 22:10 GMT

Very nice Barrin!!! :D

I really love this map actually. It kinda gives me a feeling of a whole bunch of maps put together! (Shakuras styled Main-Nat, Crossfire style center sort of with the semi geometry shapes, ICCup Testbug with the golds being places under a regular base.)

Overall, I'd give it a 10/10. again, GREAT JOB BARRIN!

monitor

United States2409 Posts

October 31 2011 22:22 GMT

I love how this map came out, especially the center. Great work Barrin! Thanks for the thanks

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

October 31 2011 22:33 GMT

A lot of nice touches in layout and aesthetics that boost the major components past "cool" towards "wow". This is like the perfect blizzardy progressive map, like a plan for how to gradually but decisively improve on ladder style. Thumbs-->up.

I'm really interested to see how those shrubs dotting the ground by the gold play out in engagements.

Archvil3

Denmark989 Posts

October 31 2011 22:56 GMT

Nice. It came out as good or maybe even better then expected. I mean, considering the hype you gave it over the last few months and how secretive you have been about it it had to be no less then awesome. The length of the thread did not disappoint either.

NewSunshine

United States5938 Posts

October 31 2011 23:13 GMT

Judging by the rock content, I'm expecting to see this in season 5's ladder.
That, and this looks like a seriously good map. Looks like it would produce some really nice games.

The_Templar

your Country52798 Posts

October 31 2011 23:43 GMT

Hmm, how does a Zerg take a fast third?

Praetorial

United States4241 Posts

October 31 2011 23:47 GMT

Lore time- the Alys'aril is in orbit above a world very similar to your map-Ulrezaj used it as his base. It was dark, and had lots of water, so I do suppose that this fits.

ClysmiC

United States2192 Posts

November 01 2011 00:25 GMT

#10

That 3rd looks really hard to defend...

Their are two attack paths to it that are both very easily accessible for the attacker. I think it'd be better if it were tucked in a little closer to the nat.

Other than that, the aesthetics and balance look really nice!

Antares777

United States1971 Posts

November 01 2011 01:14 GMT

#11

I can't criticize anything about the map, but I can criticize the thread.

Where's the TL;DR?

jk, great map Barrin!

Athox

Norway64 Posts

November 01 2011 03:12 GMT

#12

I really love this map. Period.

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

November 01 2011 14:29 GMT

#13

--- Nuked ---

totalpigeon

United Kingdom162 Posts

November 01 2011 19:47 GMT

#14

It's a really nice map, I love the options and there are just tons of little parts of the layout with so many great uses. Still, there are a couple of things I might reconsider, but then you are Barrin, so who am I to tell you what's what? XD I kid, I kid. I'll spill.

Okay, so I share the concern over the macro third, numerous chokes or not the distance is going to make it tricky to deal with highly mobile harass, especially with the short air distance from the main to the third compared to the long ground distance from main to third. Furthermore, you also have a small choke to use to get up to it and defend it. If you let the enemy get up there in any large numbers, it'll be impossible to force them out, and an elevator push into the main might be ridiculously hard for zerg to hold from this position if it comes shortly after losing their third.

Also, a couple of issues with the central plateau. The layout just doesn't seem to lend itself well to aggression in the early-mid game when the focus is on the main, natural and third. I'd really consider changing the direction of the ramps at the 5 and 11 o'clock positions of the plateau to face the mains. It would make aggressive movement through the centre much easier.
And moving past the xel naga tower seems like it might feel a bit choked. I'm not saying that's strategically a bad thing, I really don't know how the gameplay will turn out around it and it's something I'd be very interested in watching especially as you can easily deny use of a ramp to the defending player while you hold the tower. I just worry that it might make actually getting by it with a big army awkward and/or annoying, especially as the other ramps off your own half of the plateau are very non-aggressive with regard to their direction and you're going to be somewhat vulnerable as you spread out while moving through it.

Antares777

United States1971 Posts

November 08 2011 00:27 GMT

#15

I seriously cannot say a lot of about this map. Barrin, I know that you love feedback for your maps almost as much as you love your maps, but I need to play some games on this before I say anything. It looks really balanced and will most certainly create it's own type of gameplay, but I cannot tell what type of gameplay that will be until I delve into it a lot more. I especially love how you added the map into the lore of the game and made it's aesthetics unlike anything I've really seen so far, which is getting increasingly difficult to do with all the new styles people are coming out with for aesthetics. All I can say is that I am impressed, and that you never seem to disappoint anyone with these awesome maps! <3

EDIT: If this map doesn't win the TL/IPL contest I'd be extremely surprised.

Meltage

Germany613 Posts

November 11 2011 11:13 GMT

#16

I havnt spent a lot of time analyzing this, but the map reminds me of Travis' Scars of Aiur (thread). Maybe you could compare and learn from another's maps.

Samro225am

Germany982 Posts

November 11 2011 12:31 GMT

#17

On November 11 2011 20:13 Meltage wrote:
I havnt spent a lot of time analyzing this, but the map reminds me of Travis' Scars of Aiur (thread). Maybe you could compare and learn from another's maps.

travis can't win every contest! it would not be fair

congratulation Barrin, wheather you took inspiration from Travis or not.
We all learn from others and their maps, comments, ideas, re-interpretations, failures, etc. I am sure Travis took sth from Barrin's walls of text some time.

RumbleBadger

322 Posts

November 11 2011 20:02 GMT

#18

A few notes about the layout... Also, I play zerg, so if I sound very zerg biased in this post, that's why.

After taking the natural, the most logical place to put the army is out in front of the natural. But, this location is rather hard to defend for a zerg player. There are various high grounds and chokes that lead into this area that will make it very easy for a toss or terran player to attack the zerg army (and then the natural) without experiencing too many losses. For example, it seems a terran player could seige a few tanks out on the central high ground or on the ramp and then race in with some bio forces and just destroy a zerg army. Or a toss player can FFE into some 6-gate pressure and crush the zerg player rather easily by either coming down that same ramp or through the level-ground gap between the central structure and the clockwise third structure.

Another zerg problem is the third base. The counter-clockwise third is troublesome because the central highground is so near and the choke vertically adjacent to it is killer. A terran could seige a few tanks there and destroy the base or a toss could poke in with gateway pressure or colo and just mutilate the base. So the zerg is forced to take the clockwise third.

The clockwise third, however, is troublesome too. The zerg player has to keep his army near the natural, but then will hardly be able to defend the far side entrance to the third. That area is simply too choky for good surrounds and too far away to really be helpful (and also very close to the opponents base, so it will be hard to see attacks coming...). Then once the toss/terran army gets into the choke leading right into the third base, there is no way for a zerg player to root out the army. That base is basically going to die, if maybe it will be a little harder to destroy than the counter-clockwise third.

I guess what I'm getting at is that in general there are too many chokes and not enough open spaces. Here's a screenshot where I circle all the chokes that I would not want to move my army through as a zerg player: http://i.imgur.com/HNXn5.jpg
Notice I basically circled the whole map.

I don't want to bash too hard on this map, as the aesthetics look awesome and I really respect you as a map-maker, but if this was on ladder, I would veto it. Actually probably not, because I'd want to play on it a few times and it would be a nice aesthetic brake from blizzard maps, but if I really struggled to do well on this map, it would easily slide onto my veto list.

I feel like I should comment more on the good things on this map, like the aesthetics and some of the really cool layout features (like the central structures) but I've spent a good half hour making this post and I'm too tired to type more.