[P]New Units, Abilities, Evolutions, & Removals

SpoR

United States1542 Posts

October 23 2011 04:30 GMT

So I've already seen like 2-3 threads talking about only the new units. And they aren't really specific as far as details of the units.
Most of the stuff is pretty speculative and generalized since no one has any idea how they would play out at all. With the new upgrades and evolutions of old units though, and even the outright removal of other units, it can be a little easier to judge those.
I'm curious to see what everyone's opinions are about all the proposed changes so far. (also the other polls were kind of weak imho). Also more specifically, out of the new units - what you do and do not like about their abilities.

Another overlooked thing is the aesthetics. What do you guys think about the names and designs of these units and abilities?

=============
Upgrades/Evolutions:

Hydralisk speed upgrade(Hive tech)
I believe it has the same speed whether on or off creep once upgraded.

Poll: Hydra Speed

Like (999)

86%

Don't like (105)

9%

Undecided (59)

5%

1163 total votes

Your vote: Hydra Speed

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't like
(Vote): Undecided

Ultralisk Charge (Hive tech)
Burrows,charges into battle and unburrows.

Poll: Ultra Charge

Like (747)

65%

Don't Like (240)

21%

Undecided (168)

15%

1155 total votes

Your vote: Ultra Charge

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Baneling burrow movement (Hive tech)
Just like tunneling claws for roaches, and infestors with burrow upgraded.

Poll: Baneling Burrow Move

Don't Like (694)

53%

Like (419)

32%

Undecided (208)

16%

1321 total votes

Your vote: Baneling Burrow Move

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Corruptor change (Lair tech)
Corruption has been removed. In it's place is a new ability that gives corruptors a very weak ground attack to buildings that is converted into minerals and gas for the corruptor's owner at a slow pace.

Poll: Corruption removal

Undecided (537)

47%

Like (387)

34%

Don't Like (220)

19%

1144 total votes

Your vote: Corruption removal

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: Siphon Ability

Don't Like (467)

45%

Undecided (376)

36%

Like (193)

19%

1036 total votes

Your vote: Siphon Ability

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Hellion morph upgrade (Factory techlab tech)
An upgrade that allows you to morph hellions into more heavy defensive units at a cost of speed and attack speed.
(note this poll is different than the unit itself, this is about the upgrade/tech of it.)

Poll: Hellion morph upgrade

Like (608)

58%

Don't Like (307)

30%

Undecided (125)

12%

1040 total votes

Your vote: Hellion morph upgrade

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Reaper changes (Barracks techlab tech)
I don't think there are any upgrades at cost, but the changes are removal of the d8 charge bldg attack (still can attack structures with pistols) and the fact that it can regenerate life like some hybrid of shields/zerg regen when out of combat.

Poll: Reaper D8 Charge Removal

Like (626)

60%

Don't Like (270)

26%

Undecided (140)

14%

1036 total votes

Your vote: Reaper D8 Charge Removal

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: Reaper Regeneration

Like (417)

41%

Undecided (327)

32%

Don't Like (272)

27%

1016 total votes

Your vote: Reaper Regeneration

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Ghost changes (Ghost academy tech)
Instead of the traditional style of paying 25 energy to cloak and slowly draining the energy down to 0 until decloak (or uncloaking yourself). It now has a 1 time cost of X that has a limited duration that doesn't drain any further energy.

Additionally, ghosts can now cloak and decloak while calling down nuclear strikes.

Poll: Cloak cost change

Undecided (462)

48%

Like (282)

29%

Don't Like (213)

22%

957 total votes

Your vote: Cloak cost change

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: Ability to cloak during nuke

Like (593)

66%

Don't Like (179)

20%

Undecided (130)

14%

902 total votes

Your vote: Ability to cloak during nuke

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Battlecruiser upgrade (Fusion core tech)
Allows battlecrusises to activate an 'afterburner' that enables a boost in movement speed for a short duration (not sure if it costs energy)

Poll: Battlecruiser charge upgrade

Like (795)

83%

Don't Like (90)

9%

Undecided (78)

8%

963 total votes

Your vote: Battlecruiser charge upgrade

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Nexus changes (Nexus tech lol)
The nexus can target any building owned by the player and equip it with a canon like defense on top that can only damage light units.
The nexus can do a mass recall of any units anywhere and they will be disabled for a short duration as a result.
I assume these both cost energy:

Poll: Nexus Recall

Like (636)

61%

Don't Like (294)

28%

Undecided (113)

11%

1043 total votes

Your vote: Nexus Recall

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: Nexus Building Defenses

Like (445)

45%

Don't Like (327)

33%

Undecided (221)

22%

993 total votes

Your vote: Nexus Building Defenses

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

============
Removals:

Overseer removed:

Poll: Overseer removed

Like (518)

56%

Don't Like (236)

26%

Undecided (171)

18%

925 total votes

Your vote: Overseer removed

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Carrier removed:

Poll: Carrier removed

Don't Like (775)

68%

Like (247)

22%

Undecided (117)

10%

1139 total votes

Your vote: Carrier removed

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Mothership removed:

Poll: Mothership removed

Like (589)

56%

Don't Like (326)

31%

Undecided (133)

13%

1048 total votes

Your vote: Mothership removed

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Thor removed:
(The new unit has the same name but it is completely different in role and tech, etc.)

Poll: Thor removed

Like (601)

63%

Don't Like (206)

21%

Undecided (153)

16%

960 total votes

Your vote: Thor removed

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

===============
New Units:

Zerg Viper:
Flying zerg unit that has a one time use ability to target an unit and grant him permanent detection. Also has an ability to lay a cloud that reduces all units within to 1 attack range. Has a third ability to 'grab' units from a long range, can be used on enemy or allied units.

Poll: Viper Ocular parasite

Like (636)

72%

Undecided (123)

14%

Don't Like (121)

14%

880 total votes

Your vote: Viper Ocular parasite

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: Viper 'Dark Swarm'

Like (767)

86%

Don't Like (84)

9%

Undecided (46)

5%

897 total votes

Your vote: Viper 'Dark Swarm'

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: Viper 'Grab'

Don't Like (505)

49%

Like (386)

38%

Undecided (130)

13%

1021 total votes

Your vote: Viper 'Grab'

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Zerg Swarm Host:
Ground artillery unit that must burrow deploy and slowly creates and sends free quick melee units to attack.

Poll: Swarm Host

Like (511)

59%

Don't Like (196)

23%

Undecided (162)

19%

869 total votes

Your vote: Swarm Host

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Terran Warhound:
Ground anti mech/anti air unit. Does small aoe air damage and a singular large damage attack to ground mechanical units.

Poll: Warhound

Like (426)

51%

Don't Like (275)

33%

Undecided (137)

16%

838 total votes

Your vote: Warhound

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Terran Shredder:
Ground robotic unit that deploys in an area to do DoTs to enemy units within the radius as long as allied units are not also within it's range. (does not count other shredders as allied units)

Poll: Shredder

Don't Like (457)

48%

Like (352)

37%

Undecided (150)

16%

959 total votes

Your vote: Shredder

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Terran Battle Hellion:
The hellion morphs into a more armor/hp that does more damage in a wider radius. The downside is that it moves slower, has shorter range, and slower attack speed.

Poll: Battlemode unit

Like (473)

61%

Don't Like (212)

27%

Undecided (91)

12%

776 total votes

Your vote: Battlemode unit

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Terran Thor:
Back to the original design from alpha, this is a heavy artillery unit that comes from fusion core tech. It is a '1 per player' mothership type unit that moves slow, does huge damage, slow attack, lots of armor and hp, and has an ability to 'nuke' a large ground area on a cooldown.

Poll: New Thor ability

Don't Like (515)

63%

Undecided (160)

20%

Like (143)

17%

818 total votes

Your vote: New Thor ability

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: New Thor unit

Don't Like (530)

67%

Like (137)

17%

Undecided (128)

16%

795 total votes

Your vote: New Thor unit

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Protoss Oracle:
Protoss air caster raid unit that has the ability to shutdown mineral fields to prevent collection for a short duration. Has another ability to view the tech of enemy structures to see what is being researched,upgraded, or built from them. Lastly, it has an ability to remove any building from being targeted or targeting for a short duration. This also effectively removes the building from the game, as tech normally provided from that structure is inaccessible for that duration as well.

Poll: Oracle mineral blocking

Don't Like (466)

51%

Like (305)

34%

Undecided (136)

15%

907 total votes

Your vote: Oracle mineral blocking

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: Oracle building spying

Don't Like (496)

58%

Like (250)

29%

Undecided (107)

13%

853 total votes

Your vote: Oracle building spying

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Poll: Oracle building removing

Like (514)

63%

Don't Like (191)

23%

Undecided (108)

13%

813 total votes

Your vote: Oracle building removing

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Protoss Replicant:
Another protoss caster that can copy any unit in vision and gain all abilities of that unit regardless if they are researched or not.

Poll: Replicant

Don't Like (557)

61%

Like (221)

24%

Undecided (130)

14%

908 total votes

Your vote: Replicant

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Protoss Tempest:
A heavy air unit that does large AoE damage to air units as well as a singular damage beam to ground targets.

Poll: Tempest

Like (452)

52%

Don't Like (276)

32%

Undecided (136)

16%

864 total votes

Your vote: Tempest

(Vote): Like
(Vote): Don't Like
(Vote): Undecided

Feel free to correct any misinformation I have here if there is any.

PS- I'm not really sure what all the campaign units and evolutions are but if anyone has a list of all those changes so far, I would like to see polls and hear opinions of all those things for both single and multiplayer use. (example the raptorlings that can jump cliffs)

SpoR

United States1542 Posts

October 23 2011 04:30 GMT

As far as the aesthetics, I really really dislike the name of 'swarm host'. Zerg really gets the shaft when it comes to naming their stuff (roach). I also don't think this thing looks scary or bulky enough to be a siege type unit. Why not call it locust cannon if you're going for basic stuff? Swarm Cannon, Locust Launcher, Brooder, etc. etc. Anything but swarm host.
How'd we go from zergling, mutalisk, drone, etc. to roach, viper, swarm host? Create a new suffix or prefix and slap some weird greek word on it like before. Where is the creativity? heralox, gryphintor, medusarit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_mythological_figures

Tempest looks kinda silly to me.

Glad the thor is gone, but the new one is just kinda overlapping tech and just a novelty really. They took it out of the alpha because of this reason in fact. Its basically just an Odin from the campaign right?

Love the hydra speed upgrade, but hive tech? wtf thats like giving me a lolipop, letting me open it slowly, and move it towards my mouth and then slaughtering my family in front of me.

Mothership out is good.

I think Carrier could have been reworked a bit, and either the void or the phoenix could have been reworked as well to fill the roles better.

Don't really like the Oracle, really undecided on it at this point. But at first glance it either seems really really cheap or really really useless. The building spying just seems like a useless overlap with the building removal. What would you rather do, block his spire indefinitely or just see that he's making mutas now?

Replicant kinda seems novelty with no real strategic value. Probably only good in certain uncommon defensive or offensive opportunity/situations.

Nexus abilities seem like they might be overpowered. Late game toss usually has a lot of chrono saved on their stuff so it's like infinite recalling and the canon thing is just icing on the cake really.

Shredder seems like it has a lot of potential for trapping and stuff but it did seem really really strong in the demo. I like the idea but undecided on it right now.

Hellion battle mode is kinda meh, but its probably really powerful. If you mix regular hellions and battle hellions together that is pretty nasty, and then there are tanks and warhound behind. I dunno mech might be way way buff.

Like the d8 removal of the reaper, but i dunno about the regen.

Ghost cloak stuff is ok, just curious on the numbers. EMP and snipe are really powerful, hopefully this uses a lot of mana to take away from that a little. I wish they would just make ghost light units and lower their HP,Damage, or range instead though.

Viper seems like it might be imbalanced, grabbing important units out of a battle to snipe or darkwarming terran for banes.. Ocular is kinda meh, I liked the overseer tbh.

Fungal + darkwarm + banes seems really really cheap. But then again, so does burrow charge ultras and burrow move banes.

Corruptor changes are probably for the best. Been more than a few games with corruptors unable to do anything at all when I can't/don't want broodlords right then and there.

Warhound looks stupid, looks like a shittier version of a mechwarrior 2 mech. It seems like a good unit though.

edc

United States666 Posts

October 23 2011 04:47 GMT

Thanks for making this thread

imareaver3

United States906 Posts

October 23 2011 04:49 GMT

What does the [P] tag mean? When I saw this thread, I thought it was Protoss only until I read the OP.

Hailene

United States80 Posts

October 23 2011 04:53 GMT

I'm a Zerg player, so I'll focus solely on some of the zerg stuff.

Hydra Speed - very much needed. Still, I'm not sure if it's enough to actually revitalize the unit. It's almost scary to think about people who've never played SC:BW and think Hydralisks are always just useless units.

Ultra Charge - Going to be very good, but this is going to be tough to make it a balanced ability. Ultralisks are so strong once they get into the enemy line, and this might just make it a little too easy. Still not totally decided on this point I guess.

Baneling Burrow Move - Words cannot describe how happy this would make me. Of course, it's also not going to happen. Blizzard might be optimistic about it now, but there is no way that this idea is actually going to carry over. An ability like this would be very much a waste. We already have infestors which can destroy practically any mineral line for, theoretically, free if they don't have detection. Baneling bombs are already super powerful, if you can place them right, and if you understand your opponent. This won't happen.

Lunares

United States909 Posts

October 23 2011 04:57 GMT

I really hope that the thor doesn't become a super unit. The only "tier 3" unit terran really has is the battlecruiser, I would love for a powerful, end game, tier 3 , expensive thor to exist to complement the warhound. Basically what they are going for now but make them massable + balanced (reduce radius of their ability, reduce damage, w/e). But being only able to build 1 would suck.

Darathor

United States327 Posts

October 23 2011 04:57 GMT

On October 23 2011 13:49 imareaver3 wrote:
What does the [P] tag mean? When I saw this thread, I thought it was Protoss only until I read the OP.

It means poll I guess.

The main things I don't like are
-The Hydra speed requiring hive tech
-Warhound looks like an scv/mechwarrior thing
-Swarm host seems a little bit wierd
-Protoss replicant and oracle seem to be gimmicky/pointless
-Nexus abilities seem like they should require some sort of tech requirements.

Darathor

United States327 Posts

October 23 2011 04:58 GMT

crap, meant to hit edit X(

SpoR

United States1542 Posts

October 23 2011 05:04 GMT

On October 23 2011 13:57 Darathor wrote:

Show nested quote +

I mostly agree with this

MaV_gGSC

Canada1345 Posts

October 23 2011 05:04 GMT

#10

Hydra speed <3 The do listen to us ^^

I think this will bring out more of those idra style pushes that use hydras. They're still pretty fragile tho

Moldwood

United States280 Posts

October 23 2011 05:04 GMT

#11

The viper grab is the silliest shit ive seen in an RTS to date.... i cant even believe the poll is at 40 40 20 right now O . O.... Ultra burrow charge slightly less ridiculous but in my opinion both of these abilities are incredibly un-zerglike. From my perspective the swarm lures you onto their creep, they fight on their terms, and when you overstep just a bit too far they surround and consume you. Charging into groups of enemies and / or pulling them in... i dono. I dono.

Falling

Canada11363 Posts

October 23 2011 05:05 GMT

#12

For pure aesthetics, I think Swarm Host is a wonderful name for a zerg unit, I hope the unit works. I'm not sure about the name 'Viper' for the Zerg, probably just me, but it seems more one of those military names that the Terran would use (like the real life Cobra helicopter.)

For the warhound, Blizzard really need to look at the Matrix mech or the Avatar mech, or District 9 for that matter, all of which are far more cool looking then this blocky looking, colourful Star Wars ATST with arms (the real ATST is cool of course). However, I think the function of the warhound will better than the thor. I almost wonder if they could phase out the marauder with the warhound.

I'm also happy to see faster hydralisks. They were such iconic units in broodwar and I hate how they've been replaced by the uninspired roach (If you lose to roaches, you didn't macro correctly. There is nothing tricky about roaches- Day9). Here's to a new renaissance of hydralisks!

Hall0wed

United States8486 Posts

October 23 2011 05:05 GMT

#13

Protoss really are getting the extremely short end of the stick here. It is crazy how lame the Replicant is. It is like Blizzard is saying, "Just don't play Protoss".

SpoR

United States1542 Posts

October 23 2011 05:07 GMT

#14

On October 23 2011 14:05 Hall0wed wrote:
Protoss really are getting the extremely short end of the stick here. It is crazy how lame the Replicant is. It is like Blizzard is saying, "Just don't play Protoss".

To put it simply that's pretty true lol. "Hey your units suck, steal the other races!" tbh though, no one really used mind control and this is kinda worse version of it.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

October 23 2011 05:07 GMT

#15

These polls are just the typical knee jerk reactions.

For the most part, at least for Protoss, they are adding completely new unit concepts to the game using Mechanics we have never used before, thus the vast majority of players can't accurately gauge their strength.

Also, people shouldn't be surprised that Protoss didn't get any shiny units on the level of the Viper or Swarm host. Zerg were really lacking in that department and Terran needed something more to make Mech more viable against Protoss.

But Protoss already had a ton of different units for every situation, what they really lacked was units that had depth and could reward skilled players.

I like to think of this like Tetris, Zerg are getting the Line piece, Terran getting the L block and Protoss end up getting the S and Z blocks.

No one likes getting S and Z blocks, since those are the blocks that usually end up fucking over the players the most. Sometimes it is not even clear where you should put it, but in the end those are the pieces that separate the good players from the bad the most :p

SpoR

United States1542 Posts

October 23 2011 05:09 GMT

#16

Good analogy Dommk, but those new S and Z pieces seem like they might not be the best solutions to the problems of the race as just a 'theoretical' standpoint.

Cyanocyst

2222 Posts

October 23 2011 05:11 GMT

#17

Favorite things.

Swarm Hosts - Idk why but i really like these guys, im really excited about them.

Oracle - This is like a better overseer, i really like it, though im a zerg player. Its a unit that i feel is useful if you have actions and multitasking for it. Feel like that's why toss players don't like it.

Viper - i like its spells, not sure how i feel about its detection tho.

Things i don't like

Replicators - would rather toss have a unique unit. Not that i think its imba or anything.

Thors, - Don't mind them moving it back to Fusion Core, though i dislike they only allow you to build one. The MS made more since with the limit to one. If they don't want people massing them, just give them a really high supply.

ReaperX

Hong Kong1758 Posts

October 23 2011 05:11 GMT

#18

Undecided for all of them, I want to play the beta :D

Falling

Canada11363 Posts

October 23 2011 05:11 GMT

#19

To stay with the Tetris metaphor, I feel like Protoss has far to many square blocks (collosi 1a units) and I was hoping some of them would be taking out to be replaced by some of those other more interesting blocks.

Veritask

260 Posts

October 23 2011 05:13 GMT

#20

I don't really like the new protoss stuff. It all seems too gimmicky and not really true to the way starcraft works. I think the best changes were made to zerg, not from a balance standpoint or anything.

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