On October 23 2011 16:14 Daralii wrote: Regarding the oracle's speed, it's apparently significantly faster than a hellion.
That's, actually potentially pretty strong. Call it gimmicky if you want, but if 2 of these things are zipping around the map, they are going to heavily frustrate an opponent. Forget the stupid mineral ability, that's just gravy for when you have extra micro time and you need something to do. The building shift with that speed could be nuts.
Here's a scenario. Stargate opener vs. zerg, harass w/ a void and phoenix, get a couple of oracles and shift out their roach warren and spawning pool. Take your third unmolested.
Really curious as to whether or not phase shifting a tech building will stop that unit from being produced...
In my opinion, we just have to wait how all this evolves during pro games and through time.
Yeah well, we can discuss these new abilities and units, but fact is, most of us haven't played them yet and can't make any real judgement.
Sure, some new stuff might seem unbalanced/weak/wrong, but i think we just have to see.
I personally like everything new that is being added to the game. Anyone will find a way to use these new things. And if there isn't a way found to deal with these, Blizzard will take it out. Nice and simple
The main problem might be, that during this "lets see how the unit works"-period there are some tournaments being played with these units. And the imbalance of the units might affect the outcome of these matches..... Well...
bah, i guess its wait and see. As far as I know, I think the oracle will allow me to revert back to doing timing pushes against zerg every games, and make them even more brutal. I guess i could take those 10 mins wins after all (that is, if the building phase thingy does work as advertised)
Oracle: I personally didn't think of a stargat unit for that prize, unable to attack when they told us protoss will get a raiding unit for early-, mid-game...
Nexus recall: PvPs will last forever. You will recall your army to your base when you are losing the fight and it will be almost impossible to snipe an expansion, if your opponent can teleport to it.
I hope they will add an upgrade for psi storm to make extra damage vs. mechanical units to make it viable against terran mech and even in PvP.
'Dark Swarm' Hi Defiler..... Ocular Parasite... Hi SC1 Queen..... (The detection is better but...still come on.) Grab.... Okay. So I has tank line. I has broodlords.... I has roach.... I pull da tank to da roach. Tank goes...boom. Hydra speed... REALLY Big plus. But hive tech really?
Everything they did to terran made me laugh my arse off. Good bye...thor (kinda happy) Warhound..... what a...cute, cliche name huh? Shredder, eh. Undecided but. Seems like it would be good EN-Mass. Ghost changes - 100% change the ghost dynamic and who..cloaks in the middle of a nuke call down anyway? cloak beforehand.
Toss? Okay, replicant I see being REALLY good if used adeptly. -Clone Tank. Clone Infestor. - Drop you to enemy base CLONE YOUR DRONE / SCV?! (Yes, Mind Control...only maybe better) - The Tempest seems useful - Oracale....the only useful thing is building phase. - Nexus New ability. Well....we already can see how it can be abused as a post already stated. 9 Assim / shield / shut early game down. (Who needs harass unit when you can just shut down mining before even depo or pool... or gateway.... Zerg wont be able to deal with that... 3 pylon block off. who needs cannon rush?! Just save your energy and BOOM there you go pylon in your min line....oh arc shield.... oh damned..... Oh what?! You still have 2 gate proxy zeal comming?! GG Kthxbai.)
rest of the crap idk. Seems like they are just trying to come up with more gimic units. At least in SC1 (I am not talking difference between the two) Each unit had a TRUE defined role. Were just getting to that point now with WoL. If they wish to start over again? (It's been 1 year....how long did BW take to get to where it is now? 8.)
Soooo idk. We will see, but who knows. Maybe it will be good but from this standpoint and thought process on ballance (im not talking stupid low league bullcrap. Talking from an analytical view) Some of these abilites when coupled with others will prove to be way to strong
Seige Line + Sherreders + couple bunks + couple turrets (Your not breaking it.) Fungal + Grab + Burrow Move Ling + DS = lol?! BB army. Phase + Mass Recall Replicant + Phase + Mass Recall Arc Shield ANY Toss building Not sure what else there might be off top of my head.....but.
Honestly. Dunno. Can't we just get our Goliath back?! War hound is pretty much a goliath anyway...... How about defiler?! Hey..we get the viper. Detection for zerg?! Still lair tech, probably needs to be researched now.....
Anyway Take care just a few thoughts on it.
Edit: Also. Oracale. For harass....ill just phase your Hatch / Nexus / CC you want to mine?! LOL NO. You can have your mineral patches.... I'll just make your return point vanish.
I really don't understand all the hate for the replicant, it's such an interesting unit in it's potential. Protoss are supposed to be the race of the most advanced technology but often their tech doesn't seem to outshine terran, but this thing does. I mean nano tech duplication, hell yes, that's the tech that needs to be unleashed.
The oracle is also being misjudged in my opinion. It's mineral block ability seems like it will play less of a harrass factor than the building shut down though. It's primary harrass use may well be shutting down gas geysers. the openings it give's against static based defense is awesome, it'll make stargate tech more viable in a whole set of ways.
....Wow, I just can't wrap my head around the hate for the replicant. Blizzard is like, i think we'll give protoss the most expansive tool box in the game, and some people are like: this won't create new strategies >_<*. I'm thinking of how fun it will be to EMP ghosts or PDD against vikings. It really does open up the skill cap for protoss so much to have such flexibility. We've had mind control before, so it's not like a protoss controlling terran or zerg units is unprecedented, only it's style is. The cost means that the protoss will have to be smart about making his copied units cost effective... but let's be honest, cloaked banshees often are and a tank or two in the right spot can be game changing for defense. Replicated ghosts and infestors stack extremely well with high templar, so i think the higher cost is worth it. The best part is the 4 food cost will make it a unit you'll only want a few of in your end game comp.
To be honest I think the recall ability was an amazing ability for the mothership, and now that the nexus has it I am really afraid for zergs early game vs protoss.
Generally in early game ZvP (as it is now) Z tries to get an economic lead by droning and expanding while poking with one or two lings and leaving them out side the toss's base to watch for him to push out.
If the protoss does push out the zerg must determine if they think it is an attack or just toss going in shark mode, and then the zerg must make units to attack/defend, or more drones.
With recall on the nexus (assuming they can use it earlish game), A toss can be constantly pushing all the way towards the zerg punishing them any time the zerg doesnt have enough units, and the second they look like they might be over run you simply recall without or any loss, and if the zerg over produced defenses, the protoss ought to be economically ahead now and can continue this process until they can simply go crush the zerg.
This is a worry of mine atm about recall being on the nexus (teir 0) instead of the mothership the highest teir unit
Void Ray was always one of the worst looking units.
I think they could have modified the Carrier into replacing the Void Ray, instead of scrapping it. I am fairly sure almost everyone thinks the Carrier is cooler than the Void Ray.
Have to answer undecided for most of them. Don't think it makes much sense judging and justfieing something that we have never tried, or even seen used in a real game yet. Not to mention that countless things will be tweaked before HotS is actually released.
On October 23 2011 17:43 Dystisis wrote: Void Ray was always one of the worst looking units.
I think they could have modified the Carrier into replacing the Void Ray, instead of scrapping it. I am fairly sure almost everyone thinks the Carrier is cooler than the Void Ray.
People keep calling the viper the new deflier (dark swarm). But isnt it more like dweb? dweb and dark swarm are totally different ... dark swarm is100x better than dweb which the viper dosent have...
On October 23 2011 17:43 Dystisis wrote: Void Ray was always one of the worst looking units.
I think they could have modified the Carrier into replacing the Void Ray, instead of scrapping it. I am fairly sure almost everyone thinks the Carrier is cooler than the Void Ray.
VR looks cool. Just because you dont like it doesnt mean its garbage.
To the OP...just one thing...the first reaction everyone had from the description was OMG zerg got darkswarm back (myself included) but when we saw it in action and when it was explain, it isnt DS...its the zerg version of DWeb...so why still calling it DS?
On October 23 2011 17:43 Dystisis wrote: Void Ray was always one of the worst looking units.
I think they could have modified the Carrier into replacing the Void Ray, instead of scrapping it. I am fairly sure almost everyone thinks the Carrier is cooler than the Void Ray.
VR looks cool. Just because you dont like it doesnt mean its garbage.
To the OP...just one thing...the first reaction everyone had from the description was OMG zerg got darkswarm back (myself included) but when we saw it in action and when it was explain, it isnt DS...its the zerg version of DWeb...so why still calling it DS?
Just a minor thing.
Edit: rofl poster above me said the same thing :p
I'd say it's better than DWeb, just because it seems to screw with the AI. The marines in the demonstration video ran forward to attack, because their range was reduced to melee rather than their ranged attack being disabled. Look away for a second and your marines all just ran through a few clouds and into banelings.
I'm sad they removed units which have only been underused Why can't Protoss just have Carrier and Tempest and Mothership? Just leave it in the game and tweak it a bit.
They made Protoss feel really gimmicky, the mechanics of most units look stupid and unpractical, I like the concept of a fast raider, but it has a 'cast' function that probably is restricted by energy rather than cd and those web things + the mineral shields look like it'd be sinking a lot of gas and tech just to stop mining. Stargate tech was crap because it's highly niche and impractical vs mass AA ground and they put in more niche units in it :/. Replicant while it sounds really cool seems either gamebreaking or really underwhelming, I heard it was 4 supply 200/200. I suppose if you replicate banshees or immortals it'd be provide situational utility but that just means you've skipped tech to build units. I'm not really sure I like how Protoss is going to be played, the ball style blows but they discourage air play from being viable end game against straight up ground. They've put in a bunch of utility but I don't see Protoss moving away from Stalker/Collo without a decent way to control marine/maruader or broodlord/festor.
Oh man, removing the Carrier is like removing zealots but for air. (I am not using usability, cost etc for this analogy but I used the symbolic significance to the Protoss Race :/) I wouldn't mind if the phoenix or Vray get removed to make way for the Carrier tbh. Oh well, I like the tempest a lot as well as the Oracle's dweb. I don't get the hate on the replicant :/ It has so much potential. Its Protoss. What did you expect? Time will tell I guess.
EPT
