• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:58
CET 13:58
KST 21:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2111 users

APM by Race

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Cambam
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States360 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-24 05:49:38
September 24 2011 03:55 GMT
#1
Hey TL, I just did some quick analysis of APM by race for a couple of different datasets.

I used sc2gears to get APM info (so the APM will be much higher than what is shown in game, especially after patch 1.4) and then used a one way ANOVA in SPSS to analyze the differences between groups.

The first dataset was my last 209 opponents over the last month and a half in high masters (I'm currently 950+). Here are the results:

Protoss: 129
Terran: 158
Zerg: 185

I used Tukey's HSD to determine that all three groups differ significantly from each other (p <.01, in all cases). This means that Terran APM is statistically significantly higher than Protoss APM and Zerg APM is statistically significantly higher than Terran.

The next dataset is the 236 replays in the MLG Raleigh replay pack just recently released. Here are those results:

Protoss: 168
Terran: 201
Zerg: 221

Terran and Zerg do not differ significantly. However, both Terran and Zerg APM are significantly higher than Protoss APM.

I thought this was neat because it lends support to the idea that Protoss is the easiest race (mechanically). I know many people already believe this, but many Protoss players out there are in denial. These results, of course, aren't the final word on the issue, but they are piece of objective, empirical evidence in support of the "Protoss mechanics are EZPZ" hypothesis

P.S. I'd love to do an analysis of Korean data, but I need a big replay pack of a Korean pro (100+ replays). Or, if anyone wants to take the time to just download 100+ korean replays off a replay website and send them to me as a zip, that would work too.

EDIT: Big thanks to prom1se for sending me 104 korean replays (not sure where he got them, still waiting to hear back) but without further ado, here are the results:

Protoss: 246
Terran: 265
Zerg: 290

Terran and Zerg again do not differ significantly. However, in this dataset, Terran and Protoss do not differ significantly. Only Zerg and Protoss differ significantly. Damn those Koreans are fast!

Edit: Changed my argument from Protoss is the easiest race to Protoss is the easiest race (mechanically)
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
September 24 2011 03:59 GMT
#2
It's interesting data, but I'd still say there's a reasonable gap between T and Z.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
gulati
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2241 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-24 04:01:52
September 24 2011 03:59 GMT
#3
Great research. I do agree and generally believe that Zerg requires the highest level of actions to execute at a high level. However, being a Zerg myself, I must strongly disagree with your statement of Protoss being easy because they take the least amount of APM to execute at a high level. Despite their APM being low, their strategical execution far supercedes Zerg strategies at a similar ELO level, due to Zerg being a reactive race, which just counters the strategy implemented by Protoss.

This isn't a thread relating specifically to that topic, so I'll just say that it's interesting data, and I would like to see more behind the numbers if possible; i.e, how many of those actions were spam? What would the numbers be in patch 1.4 (I saw what you stated above), now that APM has been changed? Would Zerg still necessarily be THAT much more ahead of Protoss in 1.4?

Edit: As a side note, Sjow's average APM is around 60 I believe, and he clearly dominates any non-Korean (and Koreans too, as we have seen in Code A). It's not an indicator of skill, and never will be.
C r u m b l i n g
LolitsPing
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States285 Posts
September 24 2011 04:00 GMT
#4
Protoss is the easiest race to learn at the lower level. The problem with Protoss is the lack of strategies that go with it due to a lack of a harassment unit. In the lower levels, ur gonna see a lot of protosses but in the pro level, u will see a lack. That's why there are so little Protosses in the GSL right now.
Citius, Altius, Fortius
Omer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Israel442 Posts
September 24 2011 04:02 GMT
#5
zerg apm is also infalted as hell because of holding down a keywhen spending larva
Nothingtosay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States875 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-24 04:04:25
September 24 2011 04:02 GMT
#6
Just because protoss requires less apm doesn't mean it is easier. It is the least mechanically challenging but obviously it isn't super easy other wise protoss wouldn't be down on its luck right now (don't forget back from about September to early December protoss wasn't doing so hot).
[QUOTE][B]On October 16 2011 13:00 Anihc wrote:[/B] No, you're the one who's wrong. Nothingtosay got it right.[/QUOTE]:3
Pervect
Profile Joined June 2007
1280 Posts
September 24 2011 04:03 GMT
#7
protoss op

User was temp banned for this post.
Moldwood
Profile Joined April 2011
United States280 Posts
September 24 2011 04:03 GMT
#8
On September 24 2011 13:00 LolitsPing wrote:
Protoss is the easiest race to learn at the lower level. The problem with Protoss is the lack of strategies that go with it due to a lack of a harassment unit. In the lower levels, ur gonna see a lot of protosses but in the pro level, u will see a lack. That's why there are so little Protosses in the GSL right now.



Warp prisms, DTs, Blink Stalkers, phoenix
"You drone I void ray I win" --oGsMC
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-24 04:06:13
September 24 2011 04:04 GMT
#9
On September 24 2011 13:02 Nothingtosay wrote:
Just because protoss requires less apm doesn't mean it is easier.


This.
It needs to be understood. Moreover, <1000 reps aren't enough to judge the whole race.
ExO_
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States2316 Posts
September 24 2011 04:04 GMT
#10
The data in the post is great, however the attitude isn't. This data hardly justifies that P is the easiest race, and your post tries to effectively say P players are just bad when in reality this couldn't be farther from the truth.

Then again, maybe I'm just in denial and all P players are bad right?
izgodlee
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada133 Posts
September 24 2011 04:05 GMT
#11
Hmm yeah holding down a key to make 40 zerglings gives like 500 apm, so i think this is pretty meaningless right now, but after the new blizzard change to apm the results should look much different. This just tells me that terran and zerg spend more time spamming than anything. underdog race protoss fighting~!~!
Cambam
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States360 Posts
September 24 2011 04:05 GMT
#12
On September 24 2011 12:59 KimJongChill wrote:
It's interesting data, but I'd still say there's a reasonable gap between T and Z.

You can call it reasonable, but you can't call it statistically significant. The p value was 0.19 (needs to be less than 0.05 for significance).
Soloturtle
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada333 Posts
September 24 2011 04:05 GMT
#13
On September 24 2011 13:03 Moldwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2011 13:00 LolitsPing wrote:
Protoss is the easiest race to learn at the lower level. The problem with Protoss is the lack of strategies that go with it due to a lack of a harassment unit. In the lower levels, ur gonna see a lot of protosses but in the pro level, u will see a lack. That's why there are so little Protosses in the GSL right now.



Warp prisms, DTs, Blink Stalkers, phoenix


Don't forget the forcefields and positioning as well as HTs
Cool
ooni
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia1498 Posts
September 24 2011 04:06 GMT
#14
I think table tennis is much more difficult than golf because it has more Actions Per Minute.
Hi!
yandere991
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia394 Posts
September 24 2011 04:07 GMT
#15
When you want to make 30 roaches you just hold down the R key and the commands click in what...3 seconds?

Clicking 30 stalkers around a pylon field would take significantly longer.
Snorkle
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1648 Posts
September 24 2011 04:08 GMT
#16
I don't think this is thread worthy. But your mlg info is skewed because the top talent there (koreans) were heavily representing terran and zerg.

Also zerg gets inflated apm from holding down keys to build as well as spam clicking zerglings around which is hardly difficult. Terran stutter step micro increases apm as well. Protoss does not stutter step nearly as fast as terran and FF casting doesn't spike apm in the same way although I would say.

I play protoss and my apm goes up when i offrace terran or zerg. I am way worse at terran and zerg.

AM =/= equal skill. Nor does it make protoss the easiest because you don't spam click zerglings/mutas or stutter step marines. Even blinking stalkers is a lower apm exercise than stutter stepping.
Resistentialism
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada688 Posts
September 24 2011 04:08 GMT
#17
On September 24 2011 12:55 Cambam wrote:EZPZ


For the love of fuck artosis, did you really have to start people saying this?
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26063 Posts
September 24 2011 04:08 GMT
#18
Protoss bread and butter units are warped from gates to particular positions. The race doesn't have to constantly re-rally things which I feel inflates the average APM of the other races

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Avril_Lavigne
Profile Joined April 2010
United States446 Posts
September 24 2011 04:08 GMT
#19
APM is usually spent on multitasking ability, that's why terran and zerg normally have the highest and protoss the least. Protoss should start to learn how to multitask and innovate strategies that actually take skill rather than turtling and building up a deathball, it just won't get them very far
DiuLaSing
Profile Joined August 2011
Hong Kong225 Posts
September 24 2011 04:09 GMT
#20
On September 24 2011 13:03 Moldwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2011 13:00 LolitsPing wrote:
Protoss is the easiest race to learn at the lower level. The problem with Protoss is the lack of strategies that go with it due to a lack of a harassment unit. In the lower levels, ur gonna see a lot of protosses but in the pro level, u will see a lack. That's why there are so little Protosses in the GSL right now.



Warp prisms, DTs, Blink Stalkers, phoenix


these "harass" unit requires the toss pretty much all in early game...toss tech tree isnt as easy to switch as other race...
"You just abuse idiocy" - bad boy
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group A, Day 3
WardiTV539
TKL 178
Rex111
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 417
Lowko181
TKL 178
ProTech125
Rex 111
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8169
GuemChi 2202
Stork 590
BeSt 512
Pusan 499
Zeus 182
Leta 182
EffOrt 164
Light 110
Rush 108
[ Show more ]
Killer 76
hero 72
ToSsGirL 60
Dewaltoss 45
Mind 44
Barracks 38
yabsab 26
Movie 22
Icarus 20
Terrorterran 20
Hm[arnc] 10
Noble 10
sas.Sziky 5
Dota 2
Gorgc3147
singsing1881
qojqva641
Dendi578
XcaliburYe79
Counter-Strike
x6flipin733
zeus530
allub280
Other Games
summit1g15445
olofmeister1196
B2W.Neo1015
Pyrionflax383
crisheroes307
Fuzer 277
RotterdaM105
QueenE37
Trikslyr30
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream10023
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2769
Other Games
gamesdonequick559
BasetradeTV31
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
BSL: GosuLeague
8h 3m
PiGosaur Cup
12h 3m
The PondCast
21h 3m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
4 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
IPSL
5 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.