• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:58
CEST 06:58
KST 13:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 296Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion7BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion7Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) What is your PC setup in 2026 for SCBW/SC2 ?
Tourneys
GSL CK #5 Race War WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5198 users

APM by Race - Page 6

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
September 24 2011 05:22 GMT
#101
Thank you for an interesting numerical analysis, but your interpretation of the data is rather flawed. Without determining the types of actions, your analysis is limited purely to an analysis of APM itself. Are all actions equal? Probably not. Moreover, APM is not the only aspect determining difficulty in playing a race. There are many other factors, including how difficult it is to read the game, form strategies, make decisions, etc.
SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
September 24 2011 05:26 GMT
#102
I really dont understand all these people coming in here saying "select larva make zerglings inflates APM". First of all you do that like every 40 seconds max and it lasts for liek 2 seconds tops. How will that inflate APM to this level? Second of all, how is making a bunch of zerglings any different from making a bunch of marines for bio? Sure for protoss it takes half the APM to make the same supply for zerglings, but does it really make a 60 APM difference every game? Lastly, who says the zerg is making zerglings all the time? Roach/Infestor? Roach/Hydra? Theres many games where zerglings arent spammed at all.

I think people are just fishing for excuses
RoboBob
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States798 Posts
September 24 2011 05:31 GMT
#103
Microing 1 Zealot = 1 APM
Microing 2 Marine = 2 APM
Microing 4 Zerglings = 4 APM

50 energy of Mule = 1 APM
50 energy of Chronoboost = 1 APM
50 energy of inject = 2 APM

I'm tired of people epeening about apm. It depends upon your unit composition more than anything else. When I go bio, my APM shoots up because I'm always stutterstepping large globs of units. But when I'm going mech I move huge supply units across the map without stutter, so my apm drops significantly.

To be honest I'm a bit surprised that the difference between the races aren't more prounced.
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 24 2011 05:31 GMT
#104
On September 24 2011 14:26 Supamang wrote:
I really dont understand all these people coming in here saying "select larva make zerglings inflates APM". First of all you do that like every 40 seconds max and it lasts for liek 2 seconds tops. How will that inflate APM to this level? Second of all, how is making a bunch of zerglings any different from making a bunch of marines for bio? Sure for protoss it takes half the APM to make the same supply for zerglings, but does it really make a 60 APM difference every game? Lastly, who says the zerg is making zerglings all the time? Roach/Infestor? Roach/Hydra? Theres many games where zerglings arent spammed at all.

I think people are just fishing for excuses


There are other things as well. Such as placing buildings. Protoss continues to wall off things even after taking 3 bases. Placing buildings in specific spots is a low-apm move. No matter how good you are at it, your never going to be as fast as spam clicker.

Sending out overlords is one thing, but your not sending out every single overlord.
twitch.tv/medrea
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 24 2011 05:32 GMT
#105
On September 24 2011 14:31 RoboBob wrote:
Microing 1 Zealot = 1 APM
Microing 2 Marine = 2 APM
Microing 4 Zerglings = 4 APM

50 energy of Mule = 1 APM
50 energy of Chronoboost = 1 APM
50 energy of inject = 2 APM

I'm tired of people epeening about apm. It depends upon your unit composition more than anything else. When I go bio, my APM shoots up because I'm always stutterstepping large globs of units. But when I'm going mech I move huge supply units across the map without stutter, so my apm drops significantly.

To be honest I'm a bit surprised that the difference between the races aren't more prounced.


If you send 1 control group of 20 units to an area, thats 1 action.
twitch.tv/medrea
mskaa
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark155 Posts
September 24 2011 05:34 GMT
#106
On September 24 2011 13:40 figq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2011 13:34 synapse wrote:
I'm pretty sure holding the button down only counts as 1action now...
You are wrong. Hold Z, get 300+ APM instantly, just tested in 1.4.

Main reason for Z>T>P is the number of units actually. Z - lots of units, T - middle, P - fewest units, but strong. Select an army and move it around a bit, and (in current patch 1.4) you will get exactly Z>T>P for APM for armies of equal cost, because of the number of units in each army.

APM will always be quite meaningless measure, because in the average actions the most weight comes from moving an army. Which is just one click. You click once, 120 lings move, you get 120 actions. (that's still how it is in 1.4) That overrides by far your macro. So basically people with high APM issue a lot of move commands and attack commands with large armies. They don't really click/press 300+ times in a minute, at all.


Are you telling me that if i have 100 zerglings, box them all and right click one time every second, i will magically have 6000 apm.. with 200 zerglings i would have 12000 apm.. I think you need to redo your testing..
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
September 24 2011 05:36 GMT
#107
Say that to Korean Pros. I remember MC boost his APM over 400 in the real battle vs XiaoT. How many Zerg and Terran could micro like that in the battle when they don't have to micro every single unit in the army?
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 24 2011 05:38 GMT
#108
On September 24 2011 14:36 tuho12345 wrote:
Say that to Korean Pros. I remember MC boost his APM over 400 in the real battle vs XiaoT. How many Zerg and Terran could micro like that in the battle when they don't have to micro every single unit in the army?


Well I think that was 4gate versus 4gate. Those kinds of encounters are VERY long micro fests. ZvZ micro is the same, however there are reprieves in that matchup.
twitch.tv/medrea
Sveet
Profile Joined November 2010
United States86 Posts
September 24 2011 05:38 GMT
#109
This thread was great until the 2nd to last paragraph
Buddhist
Profile Joined April 2010
United States658 Posts
September 24 2011 05:39 GMT
#110
I thought this was neat because it lends support to the idea that Protoss is the easiest race. I know many people already believe this, but many Protoss players out there are in denial. These results, of course, aren't the final word on the issue, but they are piece of objective, empirical evidence in support of the "Protoss is EZPZ" hypothesis


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

you're serious too, fucking hilarious

When I play protoss, my APM is lower than when I play terran. This has NOTHING to do with the race being easier, and EVERYTHING to do with the macro mechanics. You select fewer things and use fewer actions for macro. That doesn't mean it's easier.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
September 24 2011 05:40 GMT
#111
Yes, Protoss APM is lower. Mostly because there isn't really any easily incorporated harassment options in most games Protoss play, so there is nothing to spend APM on.
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
Petninja
Profile Joined June 2011
United States159 Posts
September 24 2011 05:44 GMT
#112
I like how they're "very close" at 20 APM different, but at 30 they're very far apart. Tabloid journalism IMO.
Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
September 24 2011 05:45 GMT
#113
On September 24 2011 14:31 RoboBob wrote:
Microing 1 Zealot = 1 APM
Microing 2 Marine = 2 APM
Microing 4 Zerglings = 4 APM

50 energy of Mule = 1 APM
50 energy of Chronoboost = 1 APM
50 energy of inject = 2 APM

I'm tired of people epeening about apm. It depends upon your unit composition more than anything else. When I go bio, my APM shoots up because I'm always stutterstepping large globs of units. But when I'm going mech I move huge supply units across the map without stutter, so my apm drops significantly.

To be honest I'm a bit surprised that the difference between the races aren't more prounced.

First section doesnt make sense. I will sometimes have 50+ zerglings moving in one control group. If I click move them around by clicking them even 10 times in one minute, my APM should jump up to 500. I have never seen my APM jump up above 300, despite the fact that there are many times I have more than 50 units selected and I order them to move more than 10 times in a minute.

Second section doesnt make sense either. Select CC ---> Call down MULE = 2 APM. Select Nexus --> Chrono = 2 APM. Select Queen --> Inject = 2 APM. Even if it were true, you inject every 40 seconds. You really think that would make a 60 APM difference every game?
sechkie
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States334 Posts
September 24 2011 05:47 GMT
#114
On September 24 2011 14:44 Petninja wrote:
I like how they're "very close" at 20 APM different, but at 30 they're very far apart. Tabloid journalism IMO.


well he supposedly used the p test statistic which takes into account the range of apm among others. And yes it is quite possibly that 20 apm could be similar and 30 could be "statistically significant"
Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
September 24 2011 05:48 GMT
#115
On September 24 2011 14:31 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2011 14:26 Supamang wrote:
I really dont understand all these people coming in here saying "select larva make zerglings inflates APM". First of all you do that like every 40 seconds max and it lasts for liek 2 seconds tops. How will that inflate APM to this level? Second of all, how is making a bunch of zerglings any different from making a bunch of marines for bio? Sure for protoss it takes half the APM to make the same supply for zerglings, but does it really make a 60 APM difference every game? Lastly, who says the zerg is making zerglings all the time? Roach/Infestor? Roach/Hydra? Theres many games where zerglings arent spammed at all.

I think people are just fishing for excuses


There are other things as well. Such as placing buildings. Protoss continues to wall off things even after taking 3 bases. Placing buildings in specific spots is a low-apm move. No matter how good you are at it, your never going to be as fast as spam clicker.

Sending out overlords is one thing, but your not sending out every single overlord.

Yea, I agree there are things that require skill that dont require high APM and that Protoss requires a lot of these.

All I want to point out is that a lot of Protosses are coming in here feeling defensive (which is reasonable considering the tone of the OP), but they try to point out incorrect things to use as excuses.
mrmin123 *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Korea (South)2971 Posts
September 24 2011 05:50 GMT
#116
I can't see anything good coming out of this thread.
Translator태양은 묘지위에 붉게 떠오르고 / 한낮에 찌는 더위는 나의 시련 일찌라!
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
GSL CK #5 - Day 2
CranKy Ducklings155
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft671
NeuroSwarm 206
oGsTOP 170
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 6895
GuemChi 2939
Tasteless 101
ZergMaN 18
Bale 18
Noble 13
Icarus 9
Counter-Strike
summit1g8412
m0e_tv479
Other Games
JimRising 594
C9.Mang0362
Maynarde142
Nina59
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2352
BasetradeTV219
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH300
• practicex 27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki23
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1205
• Stunt456
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
6h 2m
The PondCast
1d 5h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Dragon vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.