EPTI'd even be more interested in breaking down the MLG pack into pieces, like Open Bracket, Pool Play, Champ Bracket.
APM by Race - Page 2
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Duka08
3391 Posts
I'd even be more interested in breaking down the MLG pack into pieces, like Open Bracket, Pool Play, Champ Bracket. | ||
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Raambo11
United States828 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:05 pii555 wrote: Don't forget the forcefields and positioning as well as HTs None of this matters because both races have equally if not more micro intensive units (marines in many cases, mutas etc). The reason for the difference in APM IMO is that toss is a "sit back macro up to deathball then attack", and contrary to many beliefs does have a lot of all in strategies. Whereas Terran must harass to get ahead, and zerg of course you need to hit your injects spread creep all while macroing up. The larva mechanic of course increases the apm a fair amount. Not saying one is easier than the other in general but it definitely takes less APM to play toss. | ||
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Cambam
United States360 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:05 izgodlee wrote: This just tells me that terran and zerg spend more time spamming than anything. underdog race protoss fighting~!~! Well (quasi)random sampling should help us avoid this. Having ~80 different players for each race should give us around an equal number of spammers and non-spammers for each race. | ||
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scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
.. .. Jokes aside, it's because the mechanics of terran and zerg require more actions. More units for zerg, more production structures for terran, more control needed overall for both races. Protoss gets W for warping in while microing revolves around correct positioning of units and abilities/spells (blink, storm, etc) rather than move/attack/move/attack. Just look at terran. Try to micro and macro at the same time. Zerg, well it's obvious since there are so many units to make and to control. | ||
digmouse
China6333 Posts
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
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Cambam
United States360 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:08 Ubertron wrote: Protoss bread and butter units are warped from gates to particular positions. The race doesn't have to constantly re-rally things which I feel inflates the average APM of the other races Which makes it easier, LOL. Bad argument ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | ||
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:10 scph wrote: Because all toss needs is to use the F key. .. .. Jokes aside, it's because the mechanics of terran and zerg require more actions. More units for zerg, more production structures for terran, more control needed overall for both races. Protoss gets W for warping in while microing revolves around correct positioning of units and abilities/spells (blink, storm, etc) rather than move/attack/move/attack. Just look at terran. Try to micro and macro at the same time. Zerg, well it's obvious since there are so many units to make and to control. I play protoss as my main and have a much easier time microing and macroing as terran. being able to que up more than one unit to be made especially in the heat of battle is way easier than having to hit every warp in perfectly. And don't tell me pros don't que up units in their rax during battles because they do, just grab a replay off of sc2rep and check it. | ||
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lazyo
Germany90 Posts
Similarly, terrans generally make a lot more units unless they are going mech (which is also just hotkey repetition). Terrans also use stim a lot which is again just a hotkey press. On the other hand, protoss generally makes much less units and except forcefields only starts using spells/abilites in the midgame. Also, they often use only 2 production buildings with a robo producing collossi requiring very little apm to continually produce from. Couple that with the fact that you have to change your camera location for every warpin and that's alot of the explaination right there.. Pretty menaingless data really. | ||
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:08 Avril_Lavigne wrote: APM is usually spent on multitasking ability, that's why terran and zerg normally have the highest and protoss the least. Protoss should start to learn how to multitask and innovate strategies that actually take skill rather than turtling and building up a deathball, it just won't get them very far APM is also due to spamming. Due to holding down keys to make units out of larva and having to inject every 40 seconds. I know you just want to blindly say that all terran and zerg players are better because they harass and that you hate a deathball, but if you step bake you might actually see the bigger picture. Either way, from my person experience as playing zerg my APM was around 160-170 on average. Now that I switched to protoss, it is down ~145. I don't think this is telling of anything or warrants a thread about why Protoss players suck. Just difference between races. | ||
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zappa372
Chile365 Posts
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Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:14 Snorkle wrote: I play protoss as my main and have a much easier time microing and macroing as terran. being able to que up more than one unit to be made especially in the heat of battle is way easier than having to hit every warp in perfectly. And don't tell me pros don't que up units in their rax during battles because they do, just grab a replay off of sc2rep and check it. Lol yeah, try to kite a protoss deathball and macro at the same time, remember. If you're not kiting you're dying, if you're kiting and not macroing you're also dying. In huge 200 vs 200 battles, you really have to get in the superior position to make up for the lack of micro just to macro to rebuild your army | ||
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Glockateer
United States254 Posts
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Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:14 Demonace34 wrote: APM is also due to spamming. Due to holding down keys to make units out of larva and having to inject every 40 seconds. I know you just want to blindly say that all terran and zerg players are better because they harass and that you hate a deathball, but if you step bake you might actually see the bigger picture. Either way, from my person experience as playing zerg my APM was around 160-170 on average. Now that I switched to protoss, it is down ~145. I don't think this is telling of anything or warrants a thread about why Protoss players suck. Just difference between races. well the new apm system should not count spamming anymore, and you should see that terran and zerg apm is still far superior to protoss. | ||
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yandere991
Australia394 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:17 Avril_Lavigne wrote: well the new apm system should not count spamming anymore, and you should see that terran and zerg apm is still far superior to protoss. When holding down z for a few seconds gives you about 20-30 actions in a 2 second period and making the same food of zealots around a pylon takes longer and actually require the users concentration. You really have to start questioning the worth and the effort behind zerg's apm. | ||
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:17 Avril_Lavigne wrote: well the new apm system should not count spamming anymore, and you should see that terran and zerg apm is still far superior to protoss. The new apm still allows for APM spikes when zerg holds down a key for larva. I also said that having to inject all the time also inflates it. Even with strenuous blink micro APM doesn't spike high. You can still spam right click your workers to places for more apm also. | ||
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Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:19 yandere991 wrote: When holding down z for a few seconds gives you about 20-30 actions in a 2 second period and making the same food of zealots around a pylon takes longer and actually require the users concentration. You really have to start questioning the worth and the effort behind zerg's apm. it's not that hard to hold down Z and spam click tbh. and it doesn't take "concentration" | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:02 Omer wrote: This is true. I did this analysis some time before with MLG/NASL replay packs, and the results were again Z>T>P as APM, with Protoss trailing far behind.zerg apm is also infalted as hell because of holding down a keywhen spending larva That really doesn't mean Zerg is more difficult and Protoss is easier. It's about the way actions are registered. If "szzzzzzzzzzzzzz" counted as one action, and stimming 40 marines counted as one action, picture would be different. (I'm zerg) | ||
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yandere991
Australia394 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:22 Avril_Lavigne wrote: it's not that hard to hold down Z and spam click tbh. and it doesn't take "concentration" Your screen has to be on the place where your pylon field is and your cursor has to be where you want your units to spawn. Yes it is easy but making the same food of zerglings is infinitely easier. | ||
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headbus
Canada173 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:08 Avril_Lavigne wrote: APM is usually spent on multitasking ability, that's why terran and zerg normally have the highest and protoss the least. Protoss should start to learn how to multitask and innovate strategies that actually take skill rather than turtling and building up a deathball, it just won't get them very far Ok here's my innovation for the day. Build 2 gateways halfway across the map and deny a 15hatch/kill the zerg if he micro's poorly with my cheap mineral only ranged unit. Expand off 1 rax without any risk because I can just float my command center down once I feel safe and hardly be behind. Spend the first 8 minutes of a game building whatever units I feel like from 1 rax, 1 fact, 1 starport. A click on a protoss natural and call them bad when they lose to it. Justify the inflated Korean representation of my race with claims that we're better multitaskers and such and therefor have higher skill. Tell other races that they should innovate more and stop playing the same way every game. Excuse my troll, but there is a reason you don't see top protoss "innovating". Because if they did, they wouldn't be a top protoss. Beyond small warp prism commitments and possibly blink stalker/dt which are both big investments protoss can't harass without a high risk. Oh and btw, parking your army infront of the zerg 2nd/3rd at 150 food isn't innovation. | ||
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