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I am a Gold level Protoss and I played against a Terran who went 2port cloaked banshee to use them in his army and to deny my 3rd along with harassing (he killed 24 probes by the end of the game).
Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?k0rbr2m2qadybwk
My question is first of all what build does well against it?
At the time in the game I didn't think that he was going to commit that much into banshees however I did cancel my charge and got blink. I teched colossi which was probably not the right choice. I think the better choice would be phoenix and HT's for feedback. Combined with blink stalkers it would work well but what do you guys think?
What did I do wrong in that game that I could of done different and that doesn't have to do with the unit composition?
The Build looked all-in to me after the replay even though he was taking his expansions (quite slowly) but he had a really low SCV count. At the end of the game I had more harvesters and he killed 24 of mine so it seemed pretty all-in.
Anyways thanks for all of you that respond 
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HT and a few phoenix shut down banshees pretty hard. Phoenix also waste PDD energy and storm is good in general. Colossus is the worst choice as they'll die to banshees pretty quickly.
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simply get some phoenix out, they chew through banshees better than u would expect. they are insanely good and easy to micro. also they have a real quick production time so you can chrono boost a couple out in pretty much no time at all.
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this has actually been done to me quite a few times and what works best for me is just to throw down a stargate, get 3-4 pheonixes with an observer specifically following them, and then continue on your previous tech path (most likely collosus). The pheonix shut down harrass almost completely and in a full army engagement i would focus down banshees with them first.
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I didn't watch the replay but phoenix with speed observers has a fun time with banshees. :D HT are good too but it depends on what point of the game you're in. If you've already gotten a robo and dont have twilight, go nix and speed obs into colossus, if you went twilight then go HT stalker and turtle with cannons, while eventually getting a robo+nix depending on how committed he is.
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... No ?
HT/Pheonixes and it's over ? Protoss make more than three obs, meanwhile you try to snipe them with vikings he feedbacks all the banshees and ...
No, it's not a valid strategy.
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i can't believe i'm reading this......
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phoenix + gateway units with upgrades.
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i dunno this style never bothered me too much because im going solid colosus phoenix into HT.. ht is also very good.. because he most likely will be stacking energy between his waves of attacks you can get couple of EPIC feedbacks and storms.. Only thing where it can kill you is when you dont scout it.. i did lost once to it but i was like idiot, was thinking "hmmm double starport he is going mass BC" HAHA you can imagine how i felt when 5 +1 armor banshees got into my base ))
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Hi,
This is one of my firsts posts so take it easy on me community. I am in gold(terran) as well, so I would take my advice with a grain of salt. 2 port banshee is not necessarily all-in, it is a build that requires high aggression (has to deal damage/can't loose his units) but far from all-in. Terran can typically "get away" with a later expansion.
Ok so to start with I watched the replay from Terran's point of view, his loading of the workers was hilarious, also his low ground wall of was pretty funny. While watching this replay I'm wondering if you thought was gonna go 3 barracks all in?
Your scouting probe didn't go in far enough to see him get his 1st gas, basically your in the dark until 9:47 game time. Heck by the time you scout, banshees are picking off your mineral line. On the flip side his scouting SCV scouted you going double gas.
Your double cannon at the ramp, was that just to make you feel safe(3 rax?)? Also you never build cannons near your mineral line. I'm curious as to the researching of hallucination.
Now on to the engagement where you are trying to secure your third, terrible. Sorry I had to be blunt there. You blink half of your stalkers onto the high ground. Terran can abuse the ledge and split your army and he did like a boss. Also your storm hit 1 banshee, and your second high templar never stormed. I'm not sure but at one point I clicked on your geysers and saw that you second refinery had only one worker mining gas.
Pretty much scouting is what lost you the game.
In Summary:
Phoenix, Blink Stalker, fast observer sounds good to me. I'd say high Templars are a good idea, but require significant amounts of micro. You could consider throwing in some Dark Templars to abuse his lack of detection, but that's gonna be a personal choice.
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On July 18 2011 19:42 StinkyNinja wrote:
In Summary:
Phoenix, Blink Stalker, fast observer sounds good to me. I'd say high Templars are a good idea, but require significant amounts of micro. You could consider throwing in some Dark Templars to abuse his lack of detection, but that's gonna be a personal choice.
I think your advice is pretty good. Just wanted to point out that going DTs against a mass-Bansheeing player isn't necessarily the best idea. If they're harassing with Banshees they're pretty likely to scout the shrine going down, they already have the infrastructure to build a Raven in place. Plus your HTs are going to wreck a mass-Banshee army, so you're probably better off investing your gas in them.
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I haven't watched the replay or anything but i'll give u my advice.
If you see a second gas with ur scouting probe or no add on after the first marine and a first gas you can assume factory tech. At the point go into stargate for phoenix. scout his base right away to find out exactly what he is doing and adapt. Also, use ur first stalker to poke at the from of his base to see what kind of units he has i.e marines or a bunker etc. This will give u an idea of where he is spending his gas and how to adapt.
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Blink stalkers, hts with storm, and 3-5 observes should do the trick. Obviously if the opponent makes nothing else than banshees you should make phoenixes, as theoretically 1 could decimate all the banshees.
Just keep an eye on your mineral lines and you should be fine. Banshees have high dps, but are also fragile, so they can be sniped easily with blink or feedback. You shouldn't lose to them in a straight up fight, so just don't let yourself get harassed too badly.
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this is gold league, advanced scouting and knowledge of build orders etc isn't helpful due to lack of APM/multitasking to execute and also the tendancy for erratic build orders from your opponent which wouldn't be discernible from how many rax/gas etc anyway.
against mass banshee... if you get an observer to track their movement you should have no problem defending with mass stalker. play a macro game and match his macro mechanics and you should have an easy win.
imo mass air play is terribly inefficient in SC2 unless your opponent is passive for waaaay too long, in which case they can't build enough of the 'i win' counter unit and your air army steamrolls their bad army composition. stalkers can't beat banshee 1:1, but due to superior speed (even without blink), the banshee has a hard time doing anything except keeping the protoss in his base.
On July 18 2011 20:06 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 19:42 StinkyNinja wrote:
In Summary:
Phoenix, Blink Stalker, fast observer sounds good to me. I'd say high Templars are a good idea, but require significant amounts of micro. You could consider throwing in some Dark Templars to abuse his lack of detection, but that's gonna be a personal choice. I think your advice is pretty good. Just wanted to point out that going DTs against a mass-Bansheeing player isn't necessarily the best idea. If they're harassing with Banshees they're pretty likely to scout the shrine going down, they already have the infrastructure to build a Raven in place. Plus your HTs are going to wreck a mass-Banshee army, so you're probably better off investing your gas in them.
it's not hard to switch your starport onto a tech lab, the problem with getting raven is not tech lab - it's gas cost in early game around the early DT timing... noone with decent macro/build order will just have 200 gas sitting there for no reason. unless you cancelled your banshee opening.
not to mention that the DT can potentially deal irreversable damage before the raven can pop out unless the terran saved up scan or gambled with a fast engineering bay/turret.
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I'm a mid-level Masters toss and I have also had trouble with this strategy.
My friend, also Masters, did it to me once in one of those games where you're not sure who is winning because of battles that ended pretty evenly and so we both kind of turtled on 3-4 base on Tal'darim. Essentially his final composition was a lot of vikings, a lot of banshees, and 2-3 Thors. I went 3 stargate phoenix and got stomped in the air battle by just the vikings and the Thor. So mass phoenix is not the answer because Thors tear apart the phoenixes, and, as protoss, you will not be used to getting air upgrades, while his upgrades will be part of his build so vikings will dominate.
The other time I saw this sort of build was on the EU server at high diamond level, and basically I lost my observer to his raven, assumed Marine Banshee Raven allin off his 2 bases, so I prepared for that. I scouted a bit more and he was somewhat banshee harassing but hiding his tech, and I had a few phoenix out (because I realized he had more than just a few banshees) and some gateway units. When I realized he had vikings, it was too late as 2 stargate phoenix wasn't fast enough nor strong enough to counter it, and he demolished my stalker force extremely fast. Blink stalkers did almost nothing to it, especially because without phoenixes, he scans and snipes your observer fairly easily. So blink stalkers are NOT the answer.
My recommendation after talking to my friends about it, is definitely High Templar/Archon. The High templar can feedback and storm, which does INSANE damage, and archon splash should deal with clumped banshees, although only make the archons after you're out of energy. Also, have some stalkers in there to tank damage for your HT's and keep up on your upgrades.
The alternative is to scout what he is doing and hit before he gets that critical mass of banshees, because if he is doing this off, say, 2 bases. He's spending ALL his resources on about 5 starports and upgrades and if you can hit while he is teching up to that, you'll win.
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your Country52798 Posts
Some guy did this to me. I found that feedbacking the banshees and hitting them with stalkers turned out very well, and if they go thors/marines you aren't screwed for going pheonixes. Although I suppose that a small number of pheonixes could also help follow the banshees when they leave your base, and observer speed to follow the banshees if a few are cloaked.
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High Templar with Observers are the key here. I'm not going to waste time advocating Stalkers since you should have a decent number of them in your force anyways. The good news is that gateway heavy compositions (lots of gateways with 1-2 forges chronoboosting upgrades [favoring armor over attack], and getting fast charge/blink while moving towards the templar of your choice) are very strong against almost all of Terran's builds. This means opening this way won't cripple you if he does something else while still putting you in an excellent place to deal with mass air if he does go that route.
High Templar should Feedback the Banshees as quickly as possible (to bring them out of cloak before the observers get killed off) and then you can clean up the remaining weakened banshees fairly easily. Meanwhile, the remainder of your energy can be spent on Psionic Storm (on the banshees or supporting units) while the rest of your ground army deals with his.
I should note that this is a fairly APM-intensive solution and requires good mechanics, game sense, and reaction time on behalf of the Protoss player. I'd suggest practicing this against a friend or the AI a few times to get used to the necessary execution requirements. The good news is simply doing this practice will improve your play considerably.
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EPT
