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I really, really want to use Hydralisks. They were my favorite unit in SC1... relatively fast, good overall backbone unit. They also made that sweet gushy-explosion sound when they attacked. They were great against "large units" and served a pretty good purpose in ZvT.
Now we have Hydras in SC2... and they seem so underused. Most people would say that there are good reasons for that... but I don't really want to have a balance discussion on them. I'm interested in viable uses of the Hydralisk. It doesn't seem "right" that one unit can have no practical role in an entire matchup.
Stats:
HP: 80 (0 armor)
Attack: 12 (+1) with .83 CD (14.5 DPS)
Speed: 2.25 (3.375 on creep), same speed as unstimmed/stimmed marine
Cost: 100/50, 33 build time
Requires Lair/Hydralisk Den
150/150 upgrade for +1 range.
Obviously, we know that hydras can crush Protoss gateway armies... and Hydra drops have been pretty effective vs toss, but what about other uses? I'm mainly interested in Hydras in ZvT.
So far, in my play, the only time that I get hydras is against 2-port banshee, and even then you usually can just hold off with spores and queens.
It also seems like you NEED creep with Hydras, so maybe as the game progresses and people get amazing at spreading creep with tumors/overlords Hydras will see more play.
I was thinking about hydras as drop-counters... keep 2 at each base behind the mineral lines (maybe along with a spine crawler) and try to snipe incoming medivacs. I don't know how fast medivacs drop, but 2 hydras can kill a medivac in about 6 seconds.
Hydra Infestor seems extremely powerful against bio, but add in siege tanks and the hydras melt.
Any other ideas? Has anybody seen Hydras used effectively in ZvT?
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In my dying days of zerg I went roach hydra just for the lawlz, and it actually isnt too bad with upgrades and creep spread. If the players is any decent though he'll get enough tanks to destroy you, and the immobility is too exploitable by drops, mass raven play, banshees, etc. Muta ling bane, or Infestor ling is just much stronger.
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VS Marines - Hydras can win but it isn't cost effective, also marines will scale better with ups
VS Tanks - lol
VS Thors - they do pretty well here, unless there is any other type of support
VS Hellions - they do fine until the hellions get on top of them, but roaches do better are available sooner, and cost less.
VS Marauders - Hydras do great here as well, not quite as good as lings, but I could see hydra ling being just as acceptable as ling baneling vs just MM, maybe MMM. Once you throw tanks into the mix it gets really bad, also hydras drastically slow your army movement off creep so they can become a liability when you need to do counters or run bys.
VS Banshees - Hydras do find once again, just not as well as queens or mutas that also serve other purposes like spreading creep or harassing/scouting
VS Medivacs - Hydras would be nice for sniping drops after they have unloaded, but nothing queens and ling couldn't take care of almost as well, however at 50 gas each they would cut deep into mutas not to mention the cost of hydra range and the den it self. Mutas are a better answer for deflecting drops in transit or killing drops that have already started to leave your base, and are still decent at drops in progress.
VS BC - they are bad, corruptors hold this down, another reason to choose spire over hydra den, although most terran dont make this unit anyways.
that leaves a hand full of unused units that aren't really problems in the match up yet anyways. Also anything you would use hydras to counter is probably countered harder by either mutas or infestors, which is actually pretty true vs toss as well.
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Uhh I guess they're good against marauders and banshees.. but mutas are better :D
I read somewhere that Thors 2-shot hydras, so I don't think hydras would be that great vs Thors?
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Hydras are only really good in ZvT when you need to get a quick squad of AA units out to deal with something. Also if the opponent is going really heavy Marauders, you could technically go Hydras and soft counter them. However mass lings or mutas would be better there, so Hydras really dont have a niche anywhere =[
They need more health and speed >_<
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Thors do 2 shot hydras but Hydras deal a lot of damage quickly, if you had a handful of lings to tank for them then hydras should be better at stopping thors than roaches IMO. However I never go hydras now that I am better so I haven't done it in a long time.
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hydra infestors would be so very gas heavy and trading army-wise, marine marauders are much more mobile and cheaper.
if you caught off creep, you will just have to win right there or you lose right away
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On June 21 2011 01:48 ETisME wrote:
hydra infestors would be so very gas heavy and trading army-wise, marine marauders are much more mobile and cheaper.
if you caught off creep, you will just have to win right there or you lose right away
This is how I feel. It would be impossible to have a mid game army big enough to be effective so let's think about late game, say 20 minutes.
Marine/tank. Infestor Hydra would do delicious work against marines if well micro'd. However that leaves the tanks untouched and you couldn't afford mutas with such a gas heavy comp. Lings could be used but it would be very cost ineffective to swarm tanks with lings.
MMM- You're army might be stronger but their army is much MUCH faster and you'll be unable to stop drops or just stimming and jogging around your army.
Marine tank thor-... I guess it'd be feasible. If you had amazing micro and found a solution to kill the tanks.
Hydras are not very good units at the moment, even against protoss (TO ME, I MAY BE WRONG THIS IS MY OPINION). The only time I find them useful is augmenting them into ZvZ for a roach infestor army.
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Strong against marine marauder, but that's about it. And infestors would be a better investment for that anyway
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Only using hydras in ZvP to stop any gateway pushes from 4gate to any slower gate push. Also for drops in the same matchup.
I have tried hydras in lots of situations against terran but I just think other units perform better in all the different cases which is really sad since hydra was my alltime favourite unit in sc1 
ps. wtb hydra speed upgrade (A)
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hydras would be pretty good at harass with drops, could drop 4-8 hydras during big battles and tear up the worker line and buildings... also against a banshee / heavy harasser I don't know why more zergs don't leave 3-4 hydras near there main and natural.
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what I would suggest while you try to find a role for them is a reminder that hydra tech shows up at the same time as either drop tech or nydus tech. perhaps use it to punish someone out of position? they melt buildings and are immune to missile turrets unlike mutas.
the units is simply too squishy/slow to see play regularly.
I make a motion of hydra speed at lair.
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I literally never use Hydralisks in ZvT... they're just that bad of a unit.
While they have extremely limited applications in ZvP and ZvZ, ZvT is all about efficient army trading and dealing with marine/tank pushes while fending off drops at the same time.
Hydras can do neither of those things in an efficient manner.
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Roach/hydra is better vs. thor/hellion than pure roach. You can also throw hydras into a roach/ling/bling composition to kill medevacs --- see sen's stream.
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hydras for drops seems like not a bad choice, but still i think people favor either a roach or an infestor instead of the hydra in any situation. If terran goes mass banshee, you might get a couple on hydras, but still in the long run would favor getting mutas out. To me the hydra is a mix of a couple units, having good dps, being an anti air unit, and not costing a ton of gas, but other units in the long run are just better. They also require lair tech, in which case you can get either a hydra den, or spire/infestation pit, which goes back to why muta/infestor is better
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Wow, good idea with hydras to defend bases.
Because of their very high DPS, they can take out marine drops easily (and marauders aren't as much of a threat to drones/hydras) since they can almost kill each one with 2 hydras, and with 3 you can kill each one as they drop. But that is if they drop where your hydras are or you saw them drop xD
I think for now, obvious roles are against Air (BC, Banshee) and sometimes Mech. And of course if the enemy decides to mass marauders some reason (perhaps if you mass roach and he switches to marauders, you can easily switch to an army of hydras)
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On June 21 2011 02:29 Exley wrote:
Roach/hydra is better vs. thor/hellion than pure roach.
I'm a bot surprised of this, I think you need to puts you hydras behind the roaches or they'll get demolished by the hellions.
Btw, for me Hydras are a useless unit in TvZ because they got crushed by stimmed marines and roaches, they are just way too light in HP.
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There's literally nothing Hydras do in ZvT that isn't done better by another unit, they're just not good units in that matchup. I think it's a waste of time to try to use a unit just for the sake of using it, especially if your motivation is just brood war nostalgia.
On June 21 2011 02:29 Exley wrote:
Roach/hydra is better vs. thor/hellion than pure roach.
Massing roaches and allocating your gas to upgrades, infestors, and hive tech is a far better idea vs hellion / thor than usingit on hydras imo.
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I've experimented with hydras in ZvT at little bit. I think they actually have a tiny place in lategame *if you managed to get a map full of creep*. Roach/hydra/ling is fine against non-tank compositions, but against anything with tanks speed/mobility is too important to let hydras slow you down.
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The hydralisk for me is a real dissapointment. I loved hydralisks in sc1 but in sc2 their role overlaps with roach and queen. They lack mobility , to expensive, not durable as a stand alone unit, cost 2 supply, have sub average range , and just about frustrate the heck out of me in team games and in 1v1. If only they had better range or did less dmg and could be mobile off creep. Right now in terms of AA they are passable but i'd rather have Queens/spore. In terms of stand up ground fights roach is more durable and generally quicker. It really bugs me i can't micro the hydras like I can in sc1 and that all terran units can utterly wipe out my hydra groups so far. They do a decent job supporting brood lords but again Queens and Infestors Corrupters perform better and don't evaporate when u breath on them. I would imagine hydra/corrupter to hydra brood lord would be the combination designed for them but at this type roach/corrupter seems to do better due to colosus and basically any enemy unit just melting the hydras.
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EPT
