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Please don't comment without watching the replay. Also, please don't comment about how builds like the one I used here are easy to stop - this isn't a discussion about that.
I need opinions guys. I just played this game (Masters level) against a zerg. The game starts out with him 7-pooling. I scout it, and respond accordingly by throwing up a forge along with my gateway, pumping out 2 zealots and throwing down one cannon. However, the guy never attacks. He transitions immediately into a 14-hatch without making a single zergling. I'm already very confused, but I'm like whatever.
So I transition into one of my standard pvz openers, involving a fast stargate with phoenixes, and then a 4gate.
After killing an overlord near my base (which I had seen fly over there earlier in the game) I proceed to his base to start harassing. When I show up, however, there are 5 hydralisks already there to greet me.
I know for a fact that he didn't scout ANYTHING - he didn't send a scouting drone, he didn't sack any overlords, NOTHING. How many zergs go 7pool (no zerglings made)-->14hatch-->hydralisks?
Now here's the the real giveaway in my opinion. I have 4 phoenixes still, and I'm about to hit with the 4gate. I put up a proxy pylon which he does not see. I know because I checked his vision in the replay and he never has vision of it. So theoretically, this guy doesn't know the 4gate is coming. After all, how often does a protoss transition from phoenix into 4gate?
I have a few gateway units in my base (like 4 zealots, 2 sentries and a stalker) which I start to bring to the proxy pylon. The moment my units leave my base, the guy throws down 4 spine crawlers and starts massing zerglings. He literally had zero information about my base, nothing at the towers, and zero map control the entire game, and he knows exactly when to throw down mass spine crawlers?
Anyway, I hit with the 4gate and phoenixes, see all the spine crawlers, and immediately retreat back to my base to throw up an expansion. The moment I put up my nexus at the natural, the guy starts droning again.
Eventually I lose to mass hydras, mass roaches, and mass corrupters (which he made without once scouting my base).
Now here's the kicker: the guy never once looked at my base through the fog of war, and never once scouted. Despite never scouting a single thing, this guy responded perfectly to everything I did. Since he never did the obvious tell of a maphacker (looking through fog of war), I am inclined to believe that this guy either has the most amazing game-sense I've ever seen, or he is using some kind of maphack that allows you to know exactly what the other person is doing without actually looking at their base through the fog of war. Either way, I could really use some opinions.
Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/3430
Let me know what you think.
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LOL he got lucky as hell, i really hate to say it but you got hardcore metagamed 
Yes, if you look at his vision, he never really looks at your base thru FoW so I doubt he is maphacking -- he could be perhaps just staring at the minimap all the time, but yeah i wouldn't worry about it he got soo soooo lucky.
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He can have a production hack. He doesnt even need to scout you, he can just look at what ur making and counter accordingly
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On April 06 2011 09:54 natewOw wrote:
Now here's the kicker: the guy never once looked at my base through the fog of war, and never once scouted. Despite never scouting a single thing, this guy responded perfectly to everything I did. Since he never did the obvious tell of a maphacker (looking through fog of war), I am inclined to believe that this guy either has the most amazing game-sense I've ever seen, or he is using some kind of maphack that allows you to know exactly what the other person is doing without actually looking at their base through the fog of war. Either way, I could really use some opinions.
Decent map hacks disable FOW watching in replays so you really can't tell if they're hacking or not.
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dont think i know of a person who does 7 pool, doesnt attack, expands, and counters what you do next perfectly without scouting
this does seem fishy
also i do believe maphacks allow you to 100% see the minimap, atleast that would be the best answer as to how he responded to your units leaving the base
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If someone 7pooled like that and didn't go 6 lings blind like that, it's not game sense, he was map hacking.
And what you say about not needing to look at the map is (sadly) possible due to SC2's own replay functionality. MHers i'm sure could code easily code in the replay functions, such as the production tab, into a mh.
Post the replay maybe? But yeah...7 pool into...drones? lol, blatant mher. There is a hackers thread here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=151244
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On April 06 2011 09:59 Jimmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 09:54 natewOw wrote:
Now here's the kicker: the guy never once looked at my base through the fog of war, and never once scouted. Despite never scouting a single thing, this guy responded perfectly to everything I did. Since he never did the obvious tell of a maphacker (looking through fog of war), I am inclined to believe that this guy either has the most amazing game-sense I've ever seen, or he is using some kind of maphack that allows you to know exactly what the other person is doing without actually looking at their base through the fog of war. Either way, I could really use some opinions. Decent map hacks disable FOW watching in replays so you really can't tell if they're hacking or not.
Yes it has been reported that map hacks have a screen lock function to screw with people watching replays.
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On April 06 2011 09:54 natewOw wrote:I need opinions guys. I just played this game (Masters level) against a zerg. The game starts out with him 7-pooling. I scout it, and respond accordingly by throwing up a forge along with my gateway, pumping out 2 zealots and throwing down one cannon. However, the guy never attacks. He transitions immediately into a 14-hatch without making a single zergling. I'm already very confused, but I'm like whatever. So I transition into one of my standard pvz openers, involving a fast stargate with phoenixes, and then a 4gate. After killing an overlord near my base (which I had seen fly over there earlier in the game) I proceed to his base to start harassing. When I show up, however, there are 5 hydralisks already there to greet me. I know for a fact that he didn't scout ANYTHING - he didn't send a scouting drone, he didn't sack any overlords, NOTHING. How many zergs go 7pool (no zerglings made)-->14hatch-->hydralisks? Now here's the the real giveaway in my opinion. I have 4 phoenixes still, and I'm about to hit with the 4gate. I put up a proxy pylon which he does not see. I know because I checked his vision in the replay and he never has vision of it. So theoretically, this guy doesn't know the 4gate is coming. After all, how often does a protoss transition from phoenix into 4gate? I have a few gateway units in my base (like 4 zealots, 2 sentries and a stalker) which I start to bring to the proxy pylon. The moment my units leave my base, the guy throws down 4 spine crawlers and starts massing zerglings. He literally had zero information about my base, nothing at the towers, and zero map control the entire game, and he knows exactly when to throw down mass spine crawlers? Anyway, I hit with the 4gate and phoenixes, see all the spine crawlers, and immediately retreat back to my base to throw up an expansion. The moment I put up my nexus at the natural, the guy starts droning again. Eventually I lose to mass hydras, mass roaches, and mass corrupters (which he made without once scouting my base). Now here's the kicker: the guy never once looked at my base through the fog of war, and never once scouted. Despite never scouting a single thing, this guy responded perfectly to everything I did. Since he never did the obvious tell of a maphacker (looking through fog of war), I am inclined to believe that this guy either has the most amazing game-sense I've ever seen, or he is using some kind of maphack that allows you to know exactly what the other person is doing without actually looking at their base through the fog of war. Either way, I could really use some opinions. Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/3430Let me know what you think.
Its pretty simple to stop delayed all ins like what youre doing, if it doing phenix into 4 gate off 1 base, that comes really slow, and if protoss hasnt expanded by like 7:30 then you know something gimmicky is coming, and i often times do go fast hydra, its weak to some builds but it makes a nice timing attack.
Alot of protoss do their own thing so you have to prepare for alot, phoenix into 4 gate isnt all that rare, ive encountered it a couple times.
the only thing that makes this suspicious is the 7 pool and not attacking that right there id automatically say he hacks.
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wow wtf did i do, delete t.t
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Trust me...
-There ARE maphacks with camera Lock
-There ARE maphacks with replay like interface (show what your opponent is building and the # of units he has)
so he could be a maphacker
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This guy wasnt even smart enough to try to hide it, its worse when they hide it for a long time like IGWARE did.
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Yeah I heard of a map hack that is going around that reads memory (RAM) and because it spits out the info in another window (like opponent units and production) and because it doesn't touch the SC2 engine at all it is undetectable by blizzard. I think a solution on blizzard's part would be to encrypt the information that contains opponent production movement etc in a way the would be unique to every game played so only the engine would be able to read it. Even if it was already it has clearly been cracked so they need to change it again.
As someone said above me, probably a production hack...
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it really sucks that maphacks are out in this game man, i think this guy is a maphacker but even going beyond that. i hope blizzard releases another patch soon.
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The strangest thing is, the second after your forge started, he rallied his lings at your ramp and then canceled them immediately.
He probably did hack. He only uncovered maybe, an 8th of the entire map, and nothing past your Xel'Naga tower...that just seemed too suspicious. Usually you want a single set of lings to see what the Protoss is doing, whether or not hes expanded etc, but he didn't even bother doing that, no overlord suicide, nothing. The only uncovered area past his expansion is due to that one overlord that he sent to the open area near your base.
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Don't see how this is "new". Undetectable maphacks always exist, and yes some of them only show unit production or minimap to avoid looking through the fog of war. As such, your evidence is fairly flimsy by the community guidelines posted in the hacker thread but not without suspicion.
Hope a mod moves this to the general hacker thread but don't know how to contact them.
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I remember seeing a video of a production tab hack, he could have been using one of those.
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On April 06 2011 10:04 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 09:54 natewOw wrote:I need opinions guys. I just played this game (Masters level) against a zerg. The game starts out with him 7-pooling. I scout it, and respond accordingly by throwing up a forge along with my gateway, pumping out 2 zealots and throwing down one cannon. However, the guy never attacks. He transitions immediately into a 14-hatch without making a single zergling. I'm already very confused, but I'm like whatever. So I transition into one of my standard pvz openers, involving a fast stargate with phoenixes, and then a 4gate. After killing an overlord near my base (which I had seen fly over there earlier in the game) I proceed to his base to start harassing. When I show up, however, there are 5 hydralisks already there to greet me. I know for a fact that he didn't scout ANYTHING - he didn't send a scouting drone, he didn't sack any overlords, NOTHING. How many zergs go 7pool (no zerglings made)-->14hatch-->hydralisks? Now here's the the real giveaway in my opinion. I have 4 phoenixes still, and I'm about to hit with the 4gate. I put up a proxy pylon which he does not see. I know because I checked his vision in the replay and he never has vision of it. So theoretically, this guy doesn't know the 4gate is coming. After all, how often does a protoss transition from phoenix into 4gate? I have a few gateway units in my base (like 4 zealots, 2 sentries and a stalker) which I start to bring to the proxy pylon. The moment my units leave my base, the guy throws down 4 spine crawlers and starts massing zerglings. He literally had zero information about my base, nothing at the towers, and zero map control the entire game, and he knows exactly when to throw down mass spine crawlers? Anyway, I hit with the 4gate and phoenixes, see all the spine crawlers, and immediately retreat back to my base to throw up an expansion. The moment I put up my nexus at the natural, the guy starts droning again. Eventually I lose to mass hydras, mass roaches, and mass corrupters (which he made without once scouting my base). Now here's the kicker: the guy never once looked at my base through the fog of war, and never once scouted. Despite never scouting a single thing, this guy responded perfectly to everything I did. Since he never did the obvious tell of a maphacker (looking through fog of war), I am inclined to believe that this guy either has the most amazing game-sense I've ever seen, or he is using some kind of maphack that allows you to know exactly what the other person is doing without actually looking at their base through the fog of war. Either way, I could really use some opinions. Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/3430Let me know what you think. Its pretty simple to stop delayed all ins like what youre doing, if it doing phenix into 4 gate off 1 base, that comes really slow, and if protoss hasnt expanded by like 7:30 then you know something gimmicky is coming, and i often times do go fast hydra, its weak to some builds but it makes a nice timing attack. Alot of protoss do their own thing so you have to prepare for alot, phoenix into 4 gate isnt all that rare, ive encountered it a couple times. nothing in this post screams maphack to me t.t
I see what you're saying, but it relies entirely on the guy ]knowing that I haven't expanded by 7:30. This guy ]doesn't know that. He never scouts me once. Never even TRIES. How do you explain that?
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On April 06 2011 10:05 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 10:04 Warrice wrote:On April 06 2011 09:54 natewOw wrote:I need opinions guys. I just played this game (Masters level) against a zerg. The game starts out with him 7-pooling. I scout it, and respond accordingly by throwing up a forge along with my gateway, pumping out 2 zealots and throwing down one cannon. However, the guy never attacks. He transitions immediately into a 14-hatch without making a single zergling. I'm already very confused, but I'm like whatever. So I transition into one of my standard pvz openers, involving a fast stargate with phoenixes, and then a 4gate. After killing an overlord near my base (which I had seen fly over there earlier in the game) I proceed to his base to start harassing. When I show up, however, there are 5 hydralisks already there to greet me. I know for a fact that he didn't scout ANYTHING - he didn't send a scouting drone, he didn't sack any overlords, NOTHING. How many zergs go 7pool (no zerglings made)-->14hatch-->hydralisks? Now here's the the real giveaway in my opinion. I have 4 phoenixes still, and I'm about to hit with the 4gate. I put up a proxy pylon which he does not see. I know because I checked his vision in the replay and he never has vision of it. So theoretically, this guy doesn't know the 4gate is coming. After all, how often does a protoss transition from phoenix into 4gate? I have a few gateway units in my base (like 4 zealots, 2 sentries and a stalker) which I start to bring to the proxy pylon. The moment my units leave my base, the guy throws down 4 spine crawlers and starts massing zerglings. He literally had zero information about my base, nothing at the towers, and zero map control the entire game, and he knows exactly when to throw down mass spine crawlers? Anyway, I hit with the 4gate and phoenixes, see all the spine crawlers, and immediately retreat back to my base to throw up an expansion. The moment I put up my nexus at the natural, the guy starts droning again. Eventually I lose to mass hydras, mass roaches, and mass corrupters (which he made without once scouting my base). Now here's the kicker: the guy never once looked at my base through the fog of war, and never once scouted. Despite never scouting a single thing, this guy responded perfectly to everything I did. Since he never did the obvious tell of a maphacker (looking through fog of war), I am inclined to believe that this guy either has the most amazing game-sense I've ever seen, or he is using some kind of maphack that allows you to know exactly what the other person is doing without actually looking at their base through the fog of war. Either way, I could really use some opinions. Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/3430Let me know what you think. Its pretty simple to stop delayed all ins like what youre doing, if it doing phenix into 4 gate off 1 base, that comes really slow, and if protoss hasnt expanded by like 7:30 then you know something gimmicky is coming, and i often times do go fast hydra, its weak to some builds but it makes a nice timing attack. Alot of protoss do their own thing so you have to prepare for alot, phoenix into 4 gate isnt all that rare, ive encountered it a couple times. nothing in this post that says maphack to me besides the fact that he 7 pooled, thats the only thing that would scream maphack.
I don't know, his hydras always moved to intercept the pheonexes wherever they went. He went all the way around his expo and main, cutting off the pheonex every time. That's what makes me believe the guy was maphacking.
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I don't think you can count him changing his BO from 7 pool into 14 hatch as evidence because sometimes if a zerg knows you've scouted his rush it's all over. So you can rule that out.
As for the other circumstances, as people above have mentioned, there are apparently camera locking hacks.
Don't stress about it though, they will have their few days/weeks of fun then they will have to buy another account and start all over.
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On April 06 2011 09:57 Warp wrote:LOL he got lucky as hell, i really hate to say it but you got hardcore metagamed Yes, if you look at his vision, he never really looks at your base thru FoW so I doubt he is maphacking -- he could be perhaps just staring at the minimap all the time, but yeah i wouldn't worry about it he got soo soooo lucky.
yeah i agree. cant really say he is 100% hacking. However, nearly all the new hacks have a View Production option that allows you to never look at the enemy base but know exactly what is coming. So maybe.
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EPT
