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KneeDeeP
Profile Joined July 2010
United States256 Posts
April 06 2011 03:38 GMT
#61
On April 06 2011 12:34 Reborn8u wrote:
I've seen this same strategy by zerg several times. They usually take the gold as their expo.



Pretty sure that was a steppes of war or scrap station build, and its xel'naga with no gold to take that early. Did you watch the replay?
"the virtuous man is content to dream what a wicked man really does"
holynorth
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States590 Posts
April 06 2011 03:40 GMT
#62
Why is this even a topic? What can we possibly help you with? We can't ban him. We can't prove he was hacking. The only thing we can do is formulate an opinion as to whether he think he was or not. But our opinions don't matter. Blizzard is the only person who can do anything about it, and, sadly, there isn't enough evidence that he was hacking for Blizzard to ban him.

But, yes, like everyone has said before, there is a production tab hack. You can see what it looks like on youtube.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
April 06 2011 03:42 GMT
#63
post in the hacker database thread
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
aznhockeyboy16
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States558 Posts
April 06 2011 03:43 GMT
#64
I've done that before... sometimes I'll 8 pool and if he doesn't scout me I'll attack, if he does scout me I'll drone up... why is that weird?
tnud
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden2233 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 03:45:10
April 06 2011 03:44 GMT
#65
On April 06 2011 12:43 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
I've done that before... sometimes I'll 8 pool and if he doesn't scout me I'll attack, if he does scout me I'll drone up... why is that weird?

Watch the replay from the zergs point of view. He doesn't scout AT ALL during the entire game (this guy is in masters) and uses hotkey 5 for basically everything.. hotkeying larva and stuff.
- ಠ_ಠ - | disinfect wrote: AHAHHAHAHA 2DG FUCK ME ALREADY.
sOvrn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States678 Posts
April 06 2011 03:47 GMT
#66
I agree that the guy is map hacking.

Just because the guy canceled his lings after you scouted the 7 pool doesn't necessarily mean he was hacking. He could have wanted to rush, made the lings then hesitated and thought it was a bad idea and canceled. However there are two things that I think give it away:

1) When phoenixes are making the guy preemptively clusters his overlords together. For me that was the give away and not the hydra positions which could be luck.

2) The most convincing evidence however is when the rush comes. As everyone's said he immediately throws down like 4-5 crawlers the moment you move out? Too much of a lucky guess imo. On top of that, while you're making your way over there he brings down his queen from his main to help defend, knowing he has to hold that. At that point it's way too obvious. Besides, how do you get into master's league without even scouting the ramp of your opponent.. Doh!

So ya, I agree that this has to be some kind of no fog of war on minimap / production hack. Btw, not very classy the way you stormed out of the game.... >.>
My favorites: Terran - Maru // Protoss - SoS // Zerg - soO ~~~ fighting!
winnningwpie
Profile Joined January 2011
United States31 Posts
April 06 2011 03:53 GMT
#67
For anyone that thinks this isn't a maphack watch at the 13:30 mark as the phoenix comedown the right side of the map then back up his hydras mirror them (to the point that they're sitting in the mineral line waiting) despite the fact that the phoenix are nowhere near creep or any sort of scouting. Also I know apm doesn't really mean much and this is purely just theoretical but the zergs apm goes from being pretty average to dropping all the way to zero quite often for being a high level game.
Zavi_
Profile Joined October 2010
100 Posts
April 06 2011 03:54 GMT
#68
There are more than 1 way to maphack. I wouldn't rule it out completely, just because he doesn't use the traditional one.

I don't want to go too much into details, but all the information in the game is sent to your client, the game just says "no, you cannot watch it yet". Hence a maphack is available in the first place. But if all the information is sent to your computer, that means it can be picked up by any other computer on the network.

I do not know how well developed the method is, but you can set up a second computer to show certain levels of information of the game by picking up packages. The only one I've seen in action is a unitmovement overview, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him having access to building and unit productions either. The data is all there, is just a question of how to extract it.

Unfortunately, warden cannot detect this, as it is done on a completely different computer. So until they fix battle.net to use their own servers for hosting ladder games, maphacking will be a possibility. Whether you got hacked, I cannot say, but it is a possibility.
jstar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada568 Posts
April 06 2011 03:56 GMT
#69
Watched the replay, I'm 99% sure this guy is maphacking. There is too much evidence, I'd suggest you e-mail the replay to hacks@blizzard.com and provide a brief description of what happened.
Jeffbelittle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States468 Posts
April 06 2011 04:07 GMT
#70
...I'm really going to piss people off from my evaluation, and I'm really sorry about that; however:

I'm not convinced he was map hacking at ALL

I'm sorry, I don't. I really really don't.

He faked a 7 pool, hoping you'd over react. He played absolutely terribly (as if the opener wasn't enough to show that lol...?), using his first 100 gas, nearly as soon as a bad player would notice he had enough, and got a lair.

Almost all Zergs that are bad think hydralisks are like THE coolest unit ever. And so he bundled his overlords together because hydralisks were being made, he wanted to protect them. I do the same thing, even if I don't scout a Stargate.

He then had like 7 hydras and 4 zerglings and was like "Well, I have 2 bases, I bet I can make a bunch of spines for units". Because he's bad. And he did. And you happened to have moved out the same time because you scouted him with your phoenixes and saw 0 ground units, so you thought you were going to trample him.

Some very telling signs that he didn't map hack include allowing constant phoenix harassment to work against him, and: when you built Colossi, he MADE A BUNCH MORE HYDRALISKS. Any person who was maphacking vision and saw Colossi tech would go straight roach, or pick up a spire.

The many people who thought this was map hacking are falling for something that both falls into the fields of Psychology and Statistics. It's superstitious behavior. You're all the gamblers who went to the casino, won big when wearing non-matching shoes, and now never match your shoes when walking into the casino.

Translate that mumbo-jumbo into real speak: You all saw he cancelled his 7 pool, and that he built spine crawlers, and even though the rest of the entire game doesn't go by the tendencies it'd have to follow to call this maphacking, you make up excuses for why things happened the way it did. Example: Oh he didn't stop the phoenix harass because it'd be too obvious. Come on: if he didn't want to be obvious about map hacking, he wouldn't make blatant hard counter at odd timings in the first place. You're all trying to reassure yourselves because something looked fishy.

Bottom line: I watched it closely, unbiased, and I think he was a legitimately bad player. But legitimate.
tchan
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia121 Posts
April 06 2011 04:12 GMT
#71
On April 06 2011 13:07 Jeffbelittle wrote:
...I'm really going to piss people off from my evaluation, and I'm really sorry about that; however:

I'm not convinced he was map hacking at ALL

I honestly question your intelligence, your reasoning is terrible.
AeonStrife
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States918 Posts
April 06 2011 04:24 GMT
#72
Reminds me of the iGware situation. Hes probably hacking. He laid down spines when you were moving out. I can understand laying down 2-3 but he lays down 5-6? He doesnt scout you, he just goes and makes the perfect counter BLINDLY. I wish Blizzard can fix all this crap.
Whats worse...US Poltics or SC2 Balance Talks...
dLKnighT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada735 Posts
April 06 2011 04:29 GMT
#73
On April 06 2011 13:07 Jeffbelittle wrote:
...I'm really going to piss people off from my evaluation, and I'm really sorry about that; however:

I'm not convinced he was map hacking at ALL

I'm sorry, I don't. I really really don't.

Bottom line: I watched it closely, unbiased, and I think he was a legitimately bad player. But legitimate.


And he's in Masters because he's bad.
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 04:42:35
April 06 2011 04:38 GMT
#74
On April 06 2011 13:07 Jeffbelittle wrote:
...I'm really going to piss people off from my evaluation, and I'm really sorry about that; however:

I'm not convinced he was map hacking at ALL

I'm sorry, I don't. I really really don't.

He faked a 7 pool, hoping you'd over react. He played absolutely terribly (as if the opener wasn't enough to show that lol...?), using his first 100 gas, nearly as soon as a bad player would notice he had enough, and got a lair.

Almost all Zergs that are bad think hydralisks are like THE coolest unit ever. And so he bundled his overlords together because hydralisks were being made, he wanted to protect them. I do the same thing, even if I don't scout a Stargate.

He then had like 7 hydras and 4 zerglings and was like "Well, I have 2 bases, I bet I can make a bunch of spines for units". Because he's bad. And he did. And you happened to have moved out the same time because you scouted him with your phoenixes and saw 0 ground units, so you thought you were going to trample him.

Some very telling signs that he didn't map hack include allowing constant phoenix harassment to work against him, and: when you built Colossi, he MADE A BUNCH MORE HYDRALISKS. Any person who was maphacking vision and saw Colossi tech would go straight roach, or pick up a spire.

The many people who thought this was map hacking are falling for something that both falls into the fields of Psychology and Statistics. It's superstitious behavior. You're all the gamblers who went to the casino, won big when wearing non-matching shoes, and now never match your shoes when walking into the casino.

Translate that mumbo-jumbo into real speak: You all saw he cancelled his 7 pool, and that he built spine crawlers, and even though the rest of the entire game doesn't go by the tendencies it'd have to follow to call this maphacking, you make up excuses for why things happened the way it did. Example: Oh he didn't stop the phoenix harass because it'd be too obvious. Come on: if he didn't want to be obvious about map hacking, he wouldn't make blatant hard counter at odd timings in the first place. You're all trying to reassure yourselves because something looked fishy.

Bottom line: I watched it closely, unbiased, and I think he was a legitimately bad player. But legitimate.


So it's you against... how many people? What makes you so convinced that you're absolutely right and the rest of us are wrong?

"Almost all Zergs that are bad think hydralisks are like THE coolest unit ever."
"And so he bundled his overlords together because hydralisks were being made, he wanted to protect them."

Those are some interesting assumptions you're making there, and do you ever wonder why such a terrible player is in Masters?

"Some very telling signs that he didn't map hack include allowing constant phoenix harassment to work against him, and: when you built Colossi, he MADE A BUNCH MORE HYDRALISKS. Any person who was maphacking vision and saw Colossi tech would go straight roach, or pick up a spire."

"Come on: if he didn't want to be obvious about map hacking, he wouldn't make blatant hard counter at odd timings in the first place."

He made inappropriate unit composition because he doesn't maphack,
He made blatant hard counter at odd timings because he doesn't maphack.

You keep harping on about how bad he is, yet you assume that he can respond perfectly to phoenixes with his slow hydras.

Does maphack even exist in Starcraft 2?

Allow me to try summarizing your mumbo-jumbo: "He did this.... cuz he's bad. and you just happened to do this at the same time. It's all coincidence man. And about that other thing... well, he's bad and that's why he did this. Come on, he's bad..."
Sensator
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 04:46:03
April 06 2011 04:44 GMT
#75
I'm fully aware that there are hacks that lock the camera etc, but really he didn't do anything that special. The only sus thing is that he blind countered your phoenix, it doesn't matter that he blind countered your warpgate collosi army because almost every Zerg does that anyway (it's common as hell). He out macro'd you the entire game, you didn't scout his 7 pool and if you did you could have punished his fast expansion and GG'd him quickly.

It's possible that he's a hacker but this is by far no proof of it

On April 06 2011 13:38 Sein wrote:Does maphack even exist in Starcraft 2?


YES YES YES A MILLION TIMES YES.
latan
Profile Joined July 2010
740 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 04:49:29
April 06 2011 04:45 GMT
#76
does seem like production hack, key tells are when he cancels the zerglings when you start the forge and how he starts the lair and as soon as you make a stargate, and how he moves the overlords back before phoenixs reveal themselves.

i don't think it's maphack tho, just the production tab thing.

however i must say you were never raping his economy, lol.
Treadmill
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2833 Posts
April 06 2011 04:49 GMT
#77
On April 06 2011 13:07 Jeffbelittle wrote:
...I'm really going to piss people off from my evaluation, and I'm really sorry about that; however:

I'm not convinced he was map hacking at ALL

I'm sorry, I don't. I really really don't.

He faked a 7 pool, hoping you'd over react. He played absolutely terribly (as if the opener wasn't enough to show that lol...?), using his first 100 gas, nearly as soon as a bad player would notice he had enough, and got a lair.

Almost all Zergs that are bad think hydralisks are like THE coolest unit ever. And so he bundled his overlords together because hydralisks were being made, he wanted to protect them. I do the same thing, even if I don't scout a Stargate.

He then had like 7 hydras and 4 zerglings and was like "Well, I have 2 bases, I bet I can make a bunch of spines for units". Because he's bad. And he did. And you happened to have moved out the same time because you scouted him with your phoenixes and saw 0 ground units, so you thought you were going to trample him.

Some very telling signs that he didn't map hack include allowing constant phoenix harassment to work against him, and: when you built Colossi, he MADE A BUNCH MORE HYDRALISKS. Any person who was maphacking vision and saw Colossi tech would go straight roach, or pick up a spire.

The many people who thought this was map hacking are falling for something that both falls into the fields of Psychology and Statistics. It's superstitious behavior. You're all the gamblers who went to the casino, won big when wearing non-matching shoes, and now never match your shoes when walking into the casino.

Translate that mumbo-jumbo into real speak: You all saw he cancelled his 7 pool, and that he built spine crawlers, and even though the rest of the entire game doesn't go by the tendencies it'd have to follow to call this maphacking, you make up excuses for why things happened the way it did. Example: Oh he didn't stop the phoenix harass because it'd be too obvious. Come on: if he didn't want to be obvious about map hacking, he wouldn't make blatant hard counter at odd timings in the first place. You're all trying to reassure yourselves because something looked fishy.

Bottom line: I watched it closely, unbiased, and I think he was a legitimately bad player. But legitimate.


Except he DID drop a spire almost exactly when the collossus bay went up. And if he was genuinely that bad, he wouldn't be in masters without hacks.
natewOw
Profile Joined April 2010
United States181 Posts
April 06 2011 04:52 GMT
#78
Some very telling signs that he didn't map hack include allowing constant phoenix harassment to work against him, and: when you built Colossi, he MADE A BUNCH MORE HYDRALISKS. Any person who was maphacking vision and saw Colossi tech would go straight roach, or pick up a spire.


Did you even watch the replay? He made a spire and massed corrupters before seeing any colossi tech or scouting (which he didn't do all game.)

You, sir, are wrong.
lol
RedMosquito
Profile Joined September 2010
United States280 Posts
April 06 2011 05:00 GMT
#79
blizzard really needs to stop this cheating. i feel more and more people are cheating every game. just the other day i played sorcery and his 3v3 team and they admitted to hacking. also played a 1v1 recently where a guy paused the game while looking over my base. I asked him what he needed to pause for and he wouldn't answer me. So i unpaused paranoid that he was somehow looking at my base or something. i love this game but so many people just want easy wins without working for it. Makes me worried about the game and i may even stop playing because of it
Jeffbelittle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States468 Posts
April 06 2011 05:00 GMT
#80
Rewatched it, now see the spire. Also: must have missed the context that this is master league.

More convinced, though not fully, that this was a production hack.
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