|
This is a precursor to a rush build I'm modifying from zvz to zvp (credit to aebriol), and exploits what I perceive to be a slight map imbalance in the PvZ matchup on one of the new 1v1 ladder maps:
Slag Pits
What is the imbalance?
The ramp's ledge is CONCAVE, not CONVEX. On the ramp for this map, both sides of the ramp ledge are slanted. For PvZ, this means that if you use 1 zealot to complete a 1-gate core wall-off, that zealot is exposed to 2 lings at a time, not 1.
Compare the following ledges of every 1v1 map to Slat Pits:
Xel'Naga Caverns
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cfntl.jpg)
Typhon Peaks
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/KU8hZ.jpg)
Metalopolis
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/64xzv.jpg)
Scrap Station
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vJrWa.jpg)
Shattered Temple
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/1K75V.jpg)
Delta Quadrant
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YXo2Y.jpg)
Backwater Gulch
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/xaEwl.jpg)
Slag Pits
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/G39i1.jpg)
Note that this ramp is a concave ledge, and not convex. This is essentially the crux of the issue.
Why is it so important in PvZ? Because 1-gate core zealot-wall is susceptible to 2 lings vs. 1 ling.
Consider the following replays:
 vs  Michael vs NoFilter ![[image loading]](http://www.topreplays.com/img/layout/download.png)
vs Michael vs Slapstick
vs Michael vs Kunnie
vs Michael vs Kunnie (2)
vs Michael vs wonkman (snapshot below from 4:53 game time)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vk8K6.jpg)
As you can see here, the zealot is taking fire from 2 lings at a time, as well as 2 drones from behind--even though he has created an artificial 1-gap ledge with the pylon.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/v5k17.jpg)
In this situation, 1-gate core doesn't offer a tight enough gap for the zealot to fight 1v1.
Closing Comments:
As you, the protoss player in PvZ on Slag Pits, will you change your building placement to compensate for this?
Do you think it's an imbalance or just something different that should be adjusted to accordingly?
Personally, as a zerg player, I do feel this is a bit of a disadvantage for Protoss players on this map in this matchup, and could easily be hotfixed.
reposted on blizzard forum: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2186018804
|
Good catch, definitely a difference there. I would suggest submitting it to blizz.
|
On March 04 2011 12:37 A3main88 wrote:
Good catch, definitely a difference there. I would suggest submitting it to blizz.
It's worth noting that if you 1-zealot wall incorrectly, your zealot is exposed to 2 lings anyway. I posted here because I'm curious how this, in its current state, affects PvZ building placement on this map.
edit: posted it there as per your recommendation, but I hope to keep this thread open as well to discuss how the early game PvZ matchup might be affected, given this information.
|
I honestly wonder if any Toss' haven't veto'd this map yet.
It's just so bad that it is silly, and this is just one of the reasons.
|
What's the difference between the Metalopolis screenshot and the Slag Pits screenshot?
|
Well you can run in with 6 lings (suiciding 5) if he exposed his zealot to 2 lings at a time so I guess I'll just make 3 rounds of lings and scout his base on that map. I don't think it'll effect the matchup in general because this map specific thingy. It's just nice toi have imo
|
On March 04 2011 12:58 daglivewire wrote:
What's the difference between the Metalopolis screenshot and the Slag Pits screenshot?
You can fit 2 zerlings in contact with the zealot, since the protoss wall off requires the zealot to only face 1 zergling at a time to provide infinity times the DPS.
If they leave a gap in between the gate and core can they have it 1 to 1 again? I think some people recommend that to prevent as many angles for 3 roaches to attack from. Speaking of 3 roaches every time i have played a protoss on the new map they 4 gate and I do the 3 roach rush, don't think I have lost yet.
|
On March 04 2011 12:58 daglivewire wrote:
What's the difference between the Metalopolis screenshot and the Slag Pits screenshot?
friend of mine mentioned that bottom metal also allows double ling, but none of the other positions do. Didn't know that... in the picture I posted of metal it is of bottom metal, so this affects all Slag Pit positions, and bottom Metal.
|
Lets hope they remove the map from the pool to fix it.
Then forget to add it in
|
Is it just one ramp on the map that has this problem, or all 4?
If it's all 4 ramps, then it isn't an imbalance.
|
It's not imbalanced comparing spawning positions, it's an inconsistency compared to other maps, an exaggerated example would be if blizzard added a map to the pool that had open flat ground from the main to the natural, instead of a ramp. Then there would be huge delicious terran and protoss tears for all zerg.
|
On March 04 2011 14:22 zergrushkekeke wrote:
It's not imbalanced comparing spawning positions, it's an inconsistency compared to other maps, an exaggerated example would be if blizzard added a map to the pool that had open flat ground from the main to the natural, instead of a ramp. Then there would be huge delicious terran and protoss tears for all zerg.
Yeah basically this.
|
On March 04 2011 14:22 zergrushkekeke wrote:
It's not imbalanced comparing spawning positions, it's an inconsistency compared to other maps, an exaggerated example would be if blizzard added a map to the pool that had open flat ground from the main to the natural, instead of a ramp. Then there would be huge delicious terran and protoss tears for all zerg.
I only remember zergs crying about Kulas Ravine, even if there was no ramp at all... but that was retarded, in my opinion
|
Surely you could use an appropriate placement of 3 buildings to create the desired effect? I mean, scrap station also requires 3 buildings...
|
Anyone else notice that you can get 2 units up before any sort of "threat" happens? If you can't hold off 2 lings with 1 zealot your fired. But really even if there are 200 lings it doesn't matter of the ramp, 1 zealot cannot hold off infinity lings, they are used to block scouting not to defend against lings while allowing you to move out.
Wrong reasons for thread is wrong reason.
|
it would take a lot of lings to take down that zealot.
|
ive actually been having great success with the high economy speedling aggression build outlined by kirix (however you spell his name) on this map and part of it is because you can break the ramp much easier/faster, usually befor the second sentry pops. after that many games are ez wins.
|
... give me some credit for explaining to you that it's worthwhile against protoss, and that some have been doing this for a couple of months.
And it does work, exact same build, on all maps. You just lose a few more lings which is a non issue since you have a much larger army.
|
On March 04 2011 15:49 aebriol wrote:
... give me some credit for explaining to you that it's worthwhile against protoss, and that some have been doing this for a couple of months.
And it does work, exact same build, on all maps. You just lose a few more lings which is a non issue since you have a much larger army.
yeah I didn't think to since I was just pointing out the inconsistency in the ramp/wall on slag pits, but noted the same.
|
just proves how bad this map really is, joe map maker spent 5 minutes on it. next thing we'll hear blizzard defending this map and saying they allowed 2 lings to attack because walling off is "imbalanced."
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
