A simply summary: Reach tried to pull off a cannon rush by sandwiching the cannon with two pylons (some EXTREMELY nice micro whille making the sandwich), but mumyung crushed his plan by setting up two sunkens in time. Now mumyung has the adventage. Instead of power hard, mumyung chose to expand everywhere on the map (which is questionable, but we'll cut him some slack). Reach built up his defense with cannons while using one gate and core forming a fort. Reach gradually built 3 stargates with no ground troop and one functional exp. While reach was getting +1 sairs, mumyung, suprisingly, chose to go Mutas and persistently went mutas/scourge until the near end. Reach used his sairs and ONE reaver (more at the end) and killed 45 of Mumyung's units with majority of them composed of drones (See reach's interview for his strategy). While harassing mumyung's economy with his reaver, his sair dominated the air and killed countless Mutas/Scourges and Overlords. By this point, Mumyung realized that he should've goten Hydras indead, Mumyung started his Hydra pumping. Unfortunately, it is all too late, reach already had 6 gates working on Speedy zeals; Robo for Reavers. After another painful struggle, Mumyung typed out.
Ok, my comments on the game (feel free to correct me, or add more): - He should've went straight with a Speed/Range(/1/1) Hydra/Lurker build. - Since he chose Mutas, he should have stopped producing Mutas after he saw Reach's three stargates and numerous sairs. - He should have at least goten devourers and garudians. - He should have dropped lurkers to harass Reach's economy.
you forgot one,he should of at least had some minor defence at each one of his expos,a sunken or a few lings..something to deter reach from killing 45 of his units
The question is whether mass hydras could counter this protoss build on this particular map. On LT if the P builds a cannon wall at the start he only secures 2 resources, but on Requiem he secures 4 (safe the 9o'clock starting location). so if mass hydras cannt break the fortified front the Protoss economy can grow really strong really quick. so that's prob why the zerg players would like to use mutas to delay the 2nd, 3rd exp for a while, like gorush and mumyung did in their games. But P would eventually take control of the air and expand.
Then what if the zerg goes into mass expansion mode itself, to prepare early for an ultra-ling onslaught. Somehow the design of this map makes sure that most natural locations are much easier to access by air than by land. (someone said Requiem is half-island) so it's hard to defend expansions with only ground units when P drops constantly. stationary defenses namly sunkens are no help when the enemy has dozens of corsairs with dweb ability.
we'll see if P will stick to this build on this map or if Z will find an easy way to counter it.
longer_23, Mumyung didn't have to break through the cannon wall--zerg has all the transports they need to drop anywhere. Sair's can't be everywhere at once, odds are decent he could have killed Reach at any time with a hydra drop.
On October 25 2004 22:29 Hautamaki wrote: longer_23, Mumyung didn't have to break through the cannon wall--zerg has all the transports they need to drop anywhere. Sair's can't be everywhere at once, odds are decent he could have killed Reach at any time with a hydra drop.
Mass drop certainly seems to be the way to go. It's funny because Yung tryed to take the map...it didn't work. GoRush tryed to give pressure in light of expanding...didn't work. There must be something we're missing here.
What about the great zerg players that populate this site? What do you guys think?
If he went for mass hyds, don't you think reach could just adapt to it? I mean reach went 1 stargate 1 robo, and if he scouted hydra den he could just build 2 robos :O
when z goes mass hydra you don't need to do anything just sit there safe, make lots of shit and rape him when you're ready mass hydra is really terrible now
protoss users got really good at moving zealots once zeals got that nice hp boost i remember running the numbers and they were like 29% stronger vs hydra than before
Just sounds like Mumyung played like an idiot and thought A: He had the game won so he could win quickly B: Persistantly stayed with muta tech even after it was failing.
The game of Ra vs Gorush was a little different, GoRush tried to muta and only expo'ed twice while switching to Hydra. Then instead of playing for center war he tried to end game with drops which didn't actually do that badly but he was just about 15-45 seconds late in timing. Meanwhile Ra expanded a bit more and was clearly making too much econ for GoRush to stop.
If you play Zerg you probably know what it feels like to want to take a tactical/strategical offense while staying techincally "Safe(ie, not just expanding everywhere for no reason)" and then having the strat go bad and being in a very bad situation.
You've almost suggested that mumyung should pursue every possible zerg tech while at the same time powering drones...
Keep in mind that this is in fact Reach playing. Even if it is his worst matchup, Reach can destroy every zerg player out there and mumyung is no exception.
On October 26 2004 01:26 SoMuchBetter wrote: You've almost suggested that mumyung should pursue every possible zerg tech while at the same time powering drones...
Keep in mind that this is in fact Reach playing. Even if it is his worst matchup, Reach can destroy every zerg player out there and mumyung is no exception.
On October 26 2004 03:25 baal wrote: with such a build Reach wouldnt be able to get templars, so hydras with a couple of lurkers to eventually evolve to Ultra crack.
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Lurkers are a waste of gas. Ultra crack on a map where reach can get millions of expansions on islands?
Guardian/Devourer possibly with some spell caster is the way to go.
Mumyung just wanted to prevent reach from getting a quick island as well then fucked up with his muta/scourge.
Let's not forget to mention that Yung built 2 sunkens to counter 1 cannon when clearly only 1 sunken was needed. And to make matters worse, he mannered HIMSELF with the first sunken he built and later had to kill it to let his drones out.
It's things like that that piss me off when I see Yung play. Even I would have the sense to place the sunken properly and not build a second unnecessarily. It was the first few minutes of the game...it's not like he had a lot to concentrate on.
EPT
