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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Town What would be the point of a roleblocker if there are no blues? | ||
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Nemesis
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On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote: Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So... All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about:
Inactives: A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. Plan Firstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity plan One plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote: i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? As to mafia being active to avoid being detected, that is a bit of WIFOM as we don't even know what DT's are really doing unless they tell us(they should not) and mafia being active is better than being inactive as we actually have something to analyze. If you don't like the plan offer some alternatives. I don't really like how we have very little activity during the first day as the day is about to end soon. Vote: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness As to my reason for voting, not much to go on really, and they seem to be the most inactive team so far. | ||
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Nemesis
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Nemesis
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On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote: I apologize for being busy. So we're having a day 1 lynch without any starting information huh. An open setup with unknown roleblockers gives a disadvantage to the town, but as the saying goes, "a challenge means god's afraid of your progress" All right, lets see. ... Looking at the past two pages, there's nothing to analyze. There's only been two votes, and the only discussion has been whether to lynch inactives. no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage. I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. Orgolove comes in, makes one long post and then disappears. If you actually look at his post, he doesn't really say anything except "there's nothing to analyze." and disagrees with lynching inactives without really adding any more. Basically he makes a long post that doesn't really say anything. ##Unvote: Team 3 ##Vote: Team 9 Flamewheel/Orgolove | ||
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Nemesis
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##Unvote: Team 2 ##Vote: Team 9 | ||
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Nemesis
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On January 06 2011 05:15 aidnai wrote: yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet. What do you mean no reason to generate discussion? Generating discussion is always a good thing. We should take advantage of every minute we have in the game. Sorry, I didn't get the chance to vote when we were extending day time. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On January 06 2011 23:28 deconduo wrote: Everyone claims to be a cop and gives out a report, if/when the real cop dies town can then look at what the reports were. Its used in situations with a roleblocker or when theres no medic protection so that cop can't safely claim openly. The biggest disadvantage with it is that mafia can work out who the cop is quicker than normal by eliminating people who give wrong reports. I don't really see how that will be helpful to town. Right now I am suspicious of subversion and aidnai. I will make an analysis on them later and decide my vote. As for subversion's claim of being roleblocked, there is a possibility that he is lying, but he could also be telling the truth so it is a bit WIFOM. My senior chaoser is rather inactive, and only pms me once in a while.  | ||
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Nemesis
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Nemesis
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First is Incognito/Subversion team: Incognito/Subversion On January 03 2011 19:21 Subversion wrote: lol, poor Korynne He used to be so innocent First post is a useless post, commenting on the story On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote: i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? Says that checking inactives is useless if publicly announced. But later retracts his statement after being explained to him how it still benefits the town. Nothing really scummy here, but he might be trying to paint himself an image of a noob by asking stupid question. On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense. Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with: ##Vote Beneather/BC My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance. That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good. He votes beneather/BC because beneather seems unwilling to say anything without his senior's guidance. Not really a good reason to vote but we didn't really have much to go on last day phase. On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone. Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked He claims that he's been roleblocked. Nothing much to really go with here. On January 07 2011 15:39 Subversion wrote: I feel like you missed my point about the inactives. I was not saying its a BAD idea to check inactives, I was saying isn't ANNOUNCING who you are checking a bad idea, as mafia who are inactive can simply make sure they post, and thus completely avoid being checked. I "gave up" this point when LSB explained to me why it was in fact a good idea. I was never challenging the idea, I was simply wondering if its not actually a bad idea. When LSB explained it made perfect sense, so I apologised for what I assumed was actually a "noob" question. You also seemed to have misinterpreted my lynch vote. I didn't think the vote for Beneather was a bad one, I thought in this case the day one vote in general was bad, because we had so little activity and a high chance of lynching a townie. With the small amount of information we did have, I felt Beneather was the best candidate, and I did justify my vote and I stand by my justification, whether you disagree with it or not. I'm not responding to kingjames because his arguments are ridiculous. If you're going to make these reckless aggressive posts, you can at least make sure you understand the rules of the game first. Defends himself from aidnai/kingjames01's attacks As for incognito, he hasn't posted at all since the game started. Overall, his post are not really scummy, but he doesn't really contribute much in his post too. And he doesn't post much except to respond to people calling him out. Now as for the other team I promised: kingjames01/aidnai Let's start with aidnai In his first few post, he begins clearing up rules. Nothing much to go on from there. On January 04 2011 09:34 aidnai wrote: Well, I guess i'm not gonna wait around for my buddy to show up before I post anything. @Deconduo: ok, if any setup is equally likely, than I agree we should "assume" setup 2 -- no blues. It's never good to rely on blues too much anyway. LSB, I'm pretty sick of the day 1 let's lynch inactives campaign...but with almost no activity so far, we might have to. Maybe everyone is trying to coordinate with their partner before diving in head first? I know Kav and I have had internet availability issues at home as well, I might be stuck posting from work only for a bit Says that we should assume setup 2 so that we don't rely on blues too much. Kinds of support lynching inactives without really committing to it. On January 05 2011 02:25 aidnai wrote: This is an interesting perspective. I'm used to hearing that killing bad townies is still killing townies. A lot of the skill in scumhunting is in differentiating scum/bad townie, afterall. The idea is, use your vote to make something concrete happen. I hope we avoid lynching the most vocal/active players this game. Pressure inactives, if someone presents a good lynch great, but let's not kill someone who will be active for the rest of the game. I'll add some pressure for now. Vote: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness Comments on Ace's suggestion. And pressure votes Team 1. After this, he has some one liners and then changes his vote to Beneather/BC On January 05 2011 07:19 aidnai wrote: Is this the way it's gonna be? learning games so sad... I'll be very sad if we don't have any more bootcamps because of this (and salem). PYP3 is more active, and it hasn't even started yet lol. I don't want Gmarshal to actually die. He's one of the only actives at this point. So I'll switch to beneather/BC for lack of anything better... ##unvote ##Vote Beneather/BC sorry about the ## thing before RoL He says that he doesn't really want to kill Gmarshal after Gmarshal started getting ahead in votes and instead joins the Beneather/BC bandwagon after it starts gaining some grounds. He makes a few post about telling his partner to come in. Then makes a bunch of useless one liner. On January 05 2011 10:02 aidnai wrote: I agree with you ace. Wanna lynch Nemesis? He says that he agrees with ace and finds me scummy. But he still doesn't change his vote and instead waits for ace to change his vote. He says he finds me scummy, but doesn't really commit to lynching me. On January 05 2011 10:15 aidnai wrote: Yeah, the last shitty analysis I saw from LSB was in HP mafia, directed at me. He was scum that time...but he wanted to get lynched as I recall, so...hmm. Even though LSB is pulling at straws with that 'analysis', I don't want to lynch him. 1) he's so pro-town he sucks at being scum. 2) if we kill him activity will grind to a halt and the game will end with less than 20 pages. Again, he sucks up to Ace, saying how right he is, but still doesn't commit to it and makes excuses to not lynch LSB even though he thinks he is scum. On January 05 2011 12:17 aidnai wrote: I hope this isn't too late ##Unvote Beneather/BC ##Vote GMarshal/Foolishness/whoever After realizing that BC/beneather team isn't really a good lynch target. He tries to save them by voting for someone else who has almost no chance of being lynched. On January 06 2011 05:15 aidnai wrote: yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet. He then says that we shouldn't discuss during anything during nighttime. This is a really questionable statement. More discussion is always beneficial for town. He votes orgolove/flamewheel and FOS subversion because of his claim to have been roleblocked which does not really imply anything eitherway unless we can verify/reject the claim. Overall, he makes a lot of non-committal post and tries to suck up to ace. kingjames01: Kingjames doesn't really post until around the end of the first day phase. His first post is an analysis on Team 1 and puts FoS on them. Comments
I think that we should apply a little more pressure to this team. He says that he thinks beneater is not mafia and is about to be lynched. But instead of voting for the person with the next most votes, his team votes for someone who has not votes at all. But then again, kingjames is not the one who controls the vote. On January 05 2011 12:41 kingjames01 wrote: To be honest, I think Kavdragon is Red and, by association, you. He thinks kavdragon/LSB is red, but doesn't really say why unlike with his other FoS where he makes an analysis on them. Maybe, he's afraid that he's going to have to make stuff up to push for a kavdragon/LSB lynch? He then goes over the top with Subversion's claim to have been roleblocked On January 06 2011 15:31 kingjames01 wrote: Forgive me if I don't believe you. If you were roleblocked, why would you even admit to that? The Roleblocker wouldn't know that he had successfully found a Blue. You could have just stayed quiet and used your power tonight. My opinion is that you're actually Mafia and you're worried that you might get lynched today. I've pointed out that you've been suspicious and now you're panicking. He claims that subversion has claimed to be a blue to dodge a lynch today and seems to be panicking because he can't push for his lynch. On January 06 2011 15:31 kingjames01 wrote: Forgive me if I don't believe you. If you were roleblocked, why would you even admit to that? The Roleblocker wouldn't know that he had successfully found a Blue. You could have just stayed quiet and used your power tonight. My opinion is that you're actually Mafia and you're worried that you might get lynched today. I've pointed out that you've been suspicious and now you're panicking. He tries even more to get subversion lynched based on his claim. After it has been pointed out that to be roleblocked, you don't necessarily have to be blue, he stops posting but his partner still seems to be trying to push suspicion onto Subversion based on the roleblock claim. Overall, aidnai has made a lot of non-committal post and sucks up a lot to Ace. And he also makes a questionable post about not generating discussion during the night. kingjames01 on the other hand has made a few analysis, but there is still that over the top reaction to Subversion's claim. RIght now, although I am a bit suspicious of Subversion, I am more suspicious of kingjames01/aidnai's team. ##Vote Team 6 Kingjames01/Aidnai | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On January 08 2011 08:06 aidnai wrote: Nemesis, two things concern me about your post. One, you left out some really important posts I made that are certainly not 'non-committal'. Two, you have no mention of orgolove, even though he's the top lynch candidate right now, he's the lynch I'm pushing, and he's the only other person that voted for me besides you. You say I "still seems to be trying to push suspicion onto Subversion based on the roleblock claim" which shows you read my analysis post of orgolove, so don't ignore it please. However, I will not be deterred from the task at hand. Orgolove has posted again in the other game, so I know for a fact he's read my analysis and knows the votes are mounting over here. I'm having a hard time imagining a pro-town reason for not contributing to discussion in this thread, and not defending yourself from a lynch... 4 hours left? Votes so far: orgolove/Flamewheel: 2.5 GMarshal (0.5) Meapak_Ziphh aidnai aidnai/KingJames01: 2 orgolove Nemesis Subversion: 0 Not yet voted: Subversion, Deconduo, TheMango (0.5) I'm counting on you deconduo. TheMango, you heard anything from foolishness yet? Well as to what I think about orgolove. Although, he has not really been helpful, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's scum. Really, your only reason for voting him is because of being apologetic and how he's pointing out that town is at a disadvantage in the setup. I hardly find those strong reasons to lynch someone. Also, there was no resistance at all when the bandwagon formed around him until my post which I find disconcerting. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On January 08 2011 10:48 flamewheel wrote: I'll help Meapak along in that since orgolove isn't around, and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to really lay it out, but take a look at Subversion's day 1 voting post. Take a look at his reasoning for the vote, and ask yourself if it makes sense. Would you mind to elaborate on this? | ||
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Nemesis
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 I'm still trying to redecide which one among you(subversion or aidnai) should I lynch. | ||
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Nemesis
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Here are my scans so far: Meapak_Ziphh/Ace Subversion/Incognito ##Vote Team 7 Subversion/Incognito This is why I was waiting for day post, I was waiting for the results of my check to come out. | ||
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Nemesis
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On January 10 2011 04:10 aidnai wrote: Ace, why haven't you analyzed my posts? you're main case against me is 1- KJ didn't push subversion hard enough (he's been afk/inactive) 2- Aidnai was on the wagon for two innocents (so was gmarshal AND deconduo) You took a lot of time and effort to make a nice big post to convince everyone to lynch me, but it's like you didn't read my posts or make any attempt to do behavioural analysis. The only reason your team has escaped scrutiny so far is because you both gave reasons for being inactive. But I'm rethinking this right now. I'm currently considering Meapak/Nemesis scum team. Something I need to think through is why would they risk fakeclaiming... well, if subversion was telling the truth all along, then we are almost certainly in setup 2. I've asked a DT to check/claim, Ace asked for either the medic or DT to claim, it's been day for a while now and no one has claimed, so more than likely there are no blues -> safe to fake claim. Subversion is an easy target, probably won't even show up to defend himself. Going back and re-reading now, if anyone chimes in while i'm re-reading, that'd be nice. aidnai, if it is setup 2, then where is the new roleblock now? | ||
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Nemesis
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On January 10 2011 04:59 aidnai wrote: If mafia are confident enough that we have setup 2 to fake roleclaim, there's no need to roleblock anyone. That's frighteningly obvious I thought.... If mafia does indeed have a roleblocker, they wouldn't have known it was setup 2 until after their supposed blue snipe on deconduo. | ||
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Nemesis
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Why didn't I scan orgolove night 1? Because I wasn't really suspicious of orgolove. Chaoser just told me to put pressure on orgolove. Night 2, why did I scan subversion instead of you? Well day 2, as I have said previously, I was torn between voting subversion and you. I know that one of you is mafia, but I wasn't sure which one. Although, I voted you that day phase, I decided to check subversion as you seem to be going for his throat. Since you seem to be on opposite sides, If I check one of you, I thought it would be the same as checking both of you. Think long and hard on this one as this is LYLO and another mistake would mean game over for town. | ||
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Nemesis
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Really think about this carefully. Aidnai, you seem to be pretty convinced that I am scum and Subversion is town, when a day ago you were all over him for his roleclaim. What made you change your opinion of him? On January 10 2011 06:53 Ace wrote: By the way if Nemesis is telling the truth then this exists: 2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town. I already pointed this out -_- If he is telling the truth AND Subversion is also then this exists: If nemesis is telling the truth, Subversion is scum, extremely unlikely to have been roleblocked 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 5 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective However no one has claimed medic and no one has counter-claimed DT. Subversion isn't here defending himself either. Why would you believe him over Nemesis? I think it's much more likely that a green will completely fail to show up to defend himself than a red. Unfortunately, neither of my lynch targets showed up yesterday... Don't you think it's something that no one else has been role blocked?no, it's pretty much expected whether subversion was telling the truth or not. Mafia would never confirm subversion's innocence by blocking someone else, especially since he's an easy lynch target. Otherwise you must be making the claim that Mafia figured out the setup a day ago and wanted to claim DT in advance or weren't afraid of a counter-claim. This also means they purposely wouldn't roleblock anyone again.Mafia didn't have to know the setup to figure out it's smarter to only block subversion or no one at all You seem to be WIFOMing all over the place here trying to make the situation fit with your opinion. Really, green is more likely to fail to defend himself? Where the hell did you get that info from? And tell me, gMarshall/theMango, what makes me fake claiming DT more likely than subversion fakeclaiming to have been roleblocked? | ||
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Nemesis
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On January 10 2011 09:59 aidnai wrote: headed out and about for the evening. Nemesis, the problem with your claim is that it means either GMango or me are scum, and I don't believe that. I went back over the posting history, and meapak/nemesis scum team makes a lot more sense. If Gmango comes to any conclusions (sorry just getting tired of typing both names), please post in the thread at the very least for the sake of subversion who may/may not show up to vote at some point. You guys have an advantage in having a few perspectives you can trust (3 man team I mean), so I trust you to get this one right. Be back later tonight. Can you at least post what makes you think that meapak/Nemesis scum team makes more sense? Also, if you really are town, I suggest you ask kingjames01 to asess the situation himself. | ||
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