EPTTL Mafia XXII
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 14 2010 09:06 flamewheel91 wrote: madnessman, are you going to play? I'm afraid I can't... Finals -_-" | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
do u still have room? if no, it's fine, no worries. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 18 2010 05:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I would have to agree with Zona and say that it seemed pretty clear cut to me that nobody besides mafia are granted the ability to PM. It'd be really complicated and confusing. If you're a special blue role (say DT), and you PM a green role, he/she would be unable to respond. If you PM a red role, is the mafia member allowed to PM you back? Mafia are given the ability to PM, but that's assuming it's for use within their own mafia circle to choose their hits. And then mafia would know you have a special blue role.. If you PM a fellow blue role, you may only start your town circle if he/she has also been granted special PMing abilities. So basically, you'd be PMing people based on a hunch that they are blue, and I suppose there's a decent chance that you end up PMing a fellow blue if you're good at behavioral analysis. But then he/she might not also have the special PM ability. And just by PMing somebody, you're giving away information that you have a special role. So yeah... flamewheel creating special PM abilities just seemed very unlikely and too complicated to moderate. If you are unable to figure out how a DT can create a town circle by clearing townies in this format I have no inclination to tell you. IT IS INSANELY EASY. Dropping mafia down to a list of x people is alot easier than sacrificing a DT for one red. As hey, I doubt we have 1 dt for every red. Remember, with millers around a checked red is never a confirmed red. Whereas a checked green or blue is more likely town as only 1 gf is alive to infiltrate. Assassins show up as what they are. Either way, I think Zona has cleared it up that forming town circles are impossible since town-aligned players don't have PM abilities. So I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing in the quote above o_O. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 18 2010 07:42 d3_crescentia wrote: I've already brought this up, and BC has replied.2) BC, we can't establish DT circles in this game because there are no PMs allowed, so this strategy seems pretty invalid as well. On April 18 2010 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I interpret this to mean that BC thinks a good plan of action would be for DT's to garner a list of confirmed townies/blue roles, and then post them publicly so as to create a 'town circle'. I've personally always thought that 'town circle' implied private communication, but I guess I'm mistaken... The thing about this plan is that it would require the DT to roleclaim later on in the game. Sure, by putting him/herself in the public sphere, medics will know who to protect. But with mafia role blocker and assassins, I don't know whether the town and DT will necessarily be in a better off position because the DT can't have guaranteed protection. I agree with BC in that there are definitely pros to knowing who the DT has checked, so mad hatters/vigils don't hit the wrong people, and DT's don't waste hits checking people who have already been checked, etc etc. But I don't want to sacrifice a DT for the sake of knowing 2-3 confirmed townies. I guess the DT should see first what roles he is able to collect from role checks, and determine whether he thinks his information is worth the risk of RCing (eg. if he has found mafia, he might think it more important to publicly share his list with the town)... You do not need PM's to form town circles. Seriously. Only the Dt's can form the circle effectively. I make reference to if they have the ability use it. If not you play without it, its pretty simple. In this game, with 38 players there will be anywhere between 2 and 4 dts most likely, lets for this argument say there are 3. Those 3 are able to form a circle easily. Hell, even greens can form a town circle with a bit of work, but it takes alot more work on their part than dts. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
I have returned to the thread, and I'm not quite sure why the last 2-3 pages have been spent analyzing BM's plan. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 18 2010 08:16 IntoTheWow wrote: LOL obvious mafia.harro evelyuan On April 18 2010 08:06 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: I don't think a DT is useless if he doesn't post his list. We shouldn't have to DEPEND on the DT to know who is town-aligned; everyone who is town-aligned should make it their top priority to try and do what is in the best interest of the town and not be inactive or generally useless and cause the town to waste a lynch on them. If you're a DT, and you find out person X is mafia, there are ways to convince the town without rcing and being like "hay I'm DT so trust me!" I'd have to disagree with your statement that "one person's non-RC'd opinion probably won't be able to sway the town to lynch mafia".. it's not like we're without reason. If you know that somebody is CONFIRMED mafia, with that insight you should be able to look at all of person X's previous posts and make a strong case against him. When I was mafia with Foolishness last game, KNOWING that he was mafia, a lot of what he said seemed obviously scummy to me (no offense to his skill level or anything, I'm very sure he felt the same way about me as well).DTs should of course show discretion on when they RC in order to post their list, but they have to do it at some point, otherwise what good are they? One person's non-RC'd opinion probably won't be able to sway the town to lynch mafia/not lynch townies, especially when there are no clues. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 19 2010 06:46 Caller wrote: How do we know you're not pulling an L? "Guys listen to me, if I'm wrong I volunteer myself." Next day: "Guys, anybody could have made that mistake. THIS time I know I'm right though, listen to me, let's lynch person X." -_-Fine Ace, let's make a bet. We lynch nai.protoss today. Let's see what affiliation he turns up. If he's town, then I volunteer myself to be lynched the following day. If he's scum, then your chainsaw defense speaks for itself. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 19 2010 13:43 Jugan wrote: Hahaha Jugan, I'm going to have to butt in and say you are playing pretty damn aggressively. Clarify how your "let's lynch kf91 because he is annoying" constitutes as an insightful, cohesive plan? Incorrect. Although I welcome you to reference the point where my "foul mouth" came into play, I will surely apologize for it. However, you are also incorrect and I ask you to simply stop flaunting your ignorance and reference yourself a few pages back where, in a single post, I have offered more insight and contributed man than you have in just a single post. I have, in fact, provided something better and have also shown you why your critically lacking analysis is bad. In order for me to bash on your "work", you must have actually done something productive. Unfortunately, you have not, from what I have seen so far, fulfilled this requirement. Again, I respectfully request that you look over the thread once more, and not just in the last 10 posts of the thread so you may gain a better understanding of the direction the game is currently headed in. As I mentioned in an earlier post that you blatantly decided to ignore, it is extremely unlikely that someone will garner the votes necessary to be lynched with so little time remaining. Thus, our best course of action is to analyze those who have posted thus far, keep a tally of the votes at hand, and ride out the first night until we get a better feel for our bearings. I welcome you to start being product, and I await your apology. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 20 2010 09:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: RoL, I'm pretty sure you're mistaken:well now we are back on topic. I finished reading and I think for this night we are doing the best thing. Jpak hasn't contributed anything, no reason to keep him around. I will do some behavior shit in the morning :D Also on the issue of lynching I don't think we need 20 votes for a lynch, I think its 20 votes for an immediate lynch on someone, or the person with the most votes by the end of the day gets lynched. I PMed flamewheel about it though, so I guess we will find out. 7. Lynching will be done on the majority lynch method. For example, if you have 20 players alive it takes 11 to lynch, and if 15 are alive it takes 8. However, regardless of when the lynch is made, the day still runs on a deadline, i.e. if Abenson is lynched with six hours to go, the night will not begin until those six hours have run their course. This is to prevent completely screwing up time cycles, since TL is a worldwide community, and people can't be here all at the same time. I've decided to vote for Jpak. I think as it stands it'll take 5 more votes for Jpak to get a lynch, or there'll be none at all. As to whether having NO lynch at all is beneficial or detrimental to the town, it's debatable, but these are my thoughts... This is the day one lynch, and if we look at the mafia games played just within this forum alone, the chance that we nab somebody who is actually mafia is quite low. However, the daytime lynch is the only opportunity to rid the town of mafia (apart from vigs/mad hatters). Currently as it stands, this game is roughly 27 vs. 8 vs. 3 (with the 3 for assassins being a gestimation, because obviously there can't be one, and two seems unlikely). If we lynch incorrectly, it bumps the town one down in terms of the whole numbers game. But if we don't lynch, we leave a very inactive member in the game who has posted in a way that indicates he could be mafia, or if not, is a player who is leaving plenty of room for scum to blend in and hide. I don't mean to say that I'm advocating a "weed all the useless players out" strategy, but if we don't put pressure on lynching people who don't participate, the town poses absolutely no threat to the mafia, because they can just shit around and do nothing without being in danger.8. In the event of nobody having a majority, then there will be no lynch for the day. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 20 2010 10:33 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Meh, I think this is worrying in that I doubt there are many assassins in this game. So if town+mafia end up accidentally killing all the assassins save one, I'm guessing that one assassin wins and game ends lol. shit just happens, i guess. At least he was an assassin and not green. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 21 2010 15:14 Caller wrote: Idk about you guys, but this sounds like terrible wifom to me. It seems pretty clear to me from Ace's tone that he:Someone that wants to stop a "no sense" bandwagon, even though it's fairly obvious that he firstly joined one (RoL Day 1) and suspects Ace heavily, yet failed to mention the primary hilarious part, which was quite frankly that I was the one that asked for my own rolecheck. No mafia player ever would do something as risky as that. Why would I go out of my way to do that when I could have instead picked RaGe or meeple, people that were high on my suspect list? It's because it was patently obvious to me that Ace was going the "fuck y'all i'm a boss" strategy. It's an admirable strategy but clearly I either didn't anticipate I was miller or that Ace would be willing to go to such extremes  In other words, ITW is playing too intelligently for someone who's a newbie to TL mafia. Either he is a super mafia genius that will sweep town to victory, or he's scum. A) Can't give a shit about this game anymore and wants to get killed off, and thus is faking DT hoping to get hit B) Is a vet and thus claims DT so he'll soak a hit "for the sake of the greater good" C) Is a legit DT D) Is mafia playing a risky strategy Of course there may be other scenarios where Ace is playing major mental mind trix on everyone, but these 4 seem most likely to me. Therefore, asking for your own role check does not seem so risky if you're mafia, considering the sense of impatience and disdain in Ace's posts, the chances that he is bluffing may be pretty high. The problem though is that if caller flips town-aligned, it doesn't give us a lot of info about Ace. Caller = red: yay we'll know Ace is legit Caller = green/blue: could be scenario A where Ace is goofing around and hoping to take Caller down with him, or could be scenario D... | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
but yay now we know that scenario C is whats up. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 24 2010 14:41 Ace wrote: Remaining players list
With 7 Mafia currently after these 2 are scraped off that leaves 5 scum in a 19 player game. That's pretty decent odds if we had enough useful players. Alas, we must do things the hard way. Jpak's voting list: The first 12 (remember jpak needed 20 to die) BloodyC0bbler Fishball Radfield KF91 CynanMachae d3_crescentia Osmoses [NyC]HoBbes Abenson RebirthOfLeGend meeple Zona The bandwagon was started by a scummy player with ridiculous logic all game. Next set of votes: Incognito Scamp madnessman Foolishness iNfuNdiBuLuM DarthThienAn TheLardyGooser Jugan So let's just step back and think for a second. We've got scum starting the wagon assuming RoL was right about his RC (and I think he is because BCs reaction was so scummy) and 2 confirmed Mafia at the end. Ok now lets combine both lists in order taking out dead players and replacing in subs. Keep in mind that the real meat of this is the votes coming after after RoL because the 3 votes before him were all non-scum. Don't worry about the guys in the beginning just yet. I'll take of that because I know most people are lazy so I'll collectively give everyone else one simple task. New list: BloodyC0bbler Fishball KF91 CynanMachae d3_crescentia Osmoses meeple BrownBear Incognito Scamp madnessman iNfuNdiBuLuM Looks so much simpler now huh? 10 players! With 2 about to be gone! So now we're down to these 8: Fishball KF91 CynanMachae d3_crescentia Osmoses meeple BrownBear Incognito Scamp madnessman ^_^. Sooo how does this all work? Simple. I want the town to go back and check out the posts->votes of Incognito, Scamp and madnessman right before the train on jpak was started by BC. Check all their posts around that time and then slightly right after the lynch. If you find anything scummy point it out. This is not meant to accuse them of being scum right off the bat. This is meant for tomorrow when the role claims come out  . As for the people in the beginning of that list I'll take care of it for now. If I don't die tonight I'll illustrate how we break that list apart even easier. I did take into account that in all the mafia games I've participated in, day one lynches have been unsuccessful at pinpointing mafia. But at the time I thought there seemed to be more to gain than to lose by not lynching him. Of course with all the modkills that are putting strain on the whole "numbers game," it's meh now. I'll be accessing le zbot archives and posting more in a bit. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 24 2010 16:41 IntoTheWow wrote: I didn't even think of making a joke until you went along and suggested it. Now..must..resist...Scaramanga, motbob and Roffles have barely posted while they have been active on TL in other areas. I know everyone can be busy, but I'm curious on what you guys think of the current situation (no jersey shore jokes please). In response to your observation, I don't know whether being active on other areas in TL and not posting in mafia thread is indicative of being scum... I would think that if you were mafia, you would be paranoid of people noticing you lurking in the mafia thread when you're obviously around, and would therefore be careful not to post in other areas if you're not posting in the mafia thread. Just my opinion though.. I could be wrong; they could be mafia and just not be as paranoid a player as I was when I was mafia, or then again just town-aligned players feeling lazy and having nothing to contribute... Basically I'm saying that while it shouldn't clear them from suspicion, I don't think such actions should be the CAUSE of suspicion/basis of FoS. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
He started off the game attracting quite a bit of suspicion, but now has almost entirely been forgotten. If I'm not mistaken, this is the reason why he was initially thought to be scum, by Caller in particular: On April 19 2010 06:32 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote: This post is in response to Caller's about how mafia will try to be active but basically post "filler" comments. Foolishness lols at how ironic nai's own post is (as it is the epitome of a filler post), to which nai replies:I thought Caller made a lot of sense, members of the mafia would want to post frequently early on so they are not lynched for being inactive but they also don't want to actually say much in their posts because the more they say the more chance of being proven scum. On April 19 2010 06:36 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote: This is nai's first game, so it is easily possible that he posted that way because he's new and thus isn't unaware of the severity of this game.. how vet's in this game have eyes like hawks and such a simple remark can heavily implicate him. But being new should NOT be an excuse for being ridiculous.. even if you're new you should exercise a modicum of reason/thoughtfulness before you post? Anyhow, I am willing to let these remarks slide. But these, on the other hand... Look at the sequence of the following posts (these happen one right after the other): I see it too much also you have to consider inexperienced players (such as myself) feel pressure to post early on so they don't get lynched for being inactive. On April 20 2010 02:59 RaGe wrote: We really need a change of attitude here imo. I propose a town-wide ban (with lynching if not lived by) on accusations/analysis of previous posts until Day 2, and a lynch of the currently least active, most voted person RebirthOfLegend Because let's face it, we're not going to be able to have enough of us agree on an already suspicious person to be able to lynch him on day 1, and we're only helping mafia decide which townies to snipe atm. This would help us focus on getting a decent plan together for the rest of the game. On April 20 2010 03:09 TheLardyGooser wrote: I second this. On April 20 2010 03:14 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote: If that isn't blatant bandwagoning by Goose and nai, I don't know what is. We already know Goose to be red. People grow suspicious of Rage, and nai replies: Vote changed to RebirthOfLegend because he has not made a post yet in this game, and I completly agree with voting off the least active person to begin with. Also I think a consensus may be met on this, as opposed to others. On April 20 2010 03:42 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote: As soon as suspicion is placed on Rage following the above sequence of events, nai defends Rage's strategy. But then he begins to question whether we should even vote anybody off, when he was previously advocating a lynch the inactives strategy. Could this be in response to Rage attracting suspicion, and him getting worried that Rage may be lynched? Meh, I could just be reading into this. But such actions would definitely be consistent with what we know about nai as a player (new, somewhat thoughtless..) Inactive* I really hate not being able to edit lol Also how is Rage red? It makes sense to vote off somone who is not active, because the less they talk the less chance we have to learn their allegiances. Question: Do we have to vote somone off? or is it just better to not vote anyone off because the chances are we will lynch an innocent? After this, nai makes a terrible argument that since caller was rolechecked red, he (nai) must obviously NOT be mafia. He proceeds to voice that he didn't realize mafia would be so much work and thinking, and that he isn't going to post except to defend himself because no matter what he says, it is overanalyzed and suspicion is put upon him. He also makes this dramatic post: On April 23 2010 15:10 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote: He has since then rarely posted, and more or less disappeared. To late for generating content. If you have already convinced yourselves that I am mafia then no amount of content will change that. No matter what I say it will be overanalyzed and used as "evidence" as to why I am mafia. I will save you a vote and go inactive next day cycle, and get modkilled. My conclusion? nai is either a thoughtless town player with terribly bad play, who doesn't realize that sitting back and only posting to defend himself won't help the town or prove to anybody that he's town-aligned, or otherwise he is a mafia member who made some scummy actions, received a lot of suspicion, and as a result, has blended into the background in an attempt to be forgotten, perhaps at the prompting of his team mates (to which end, he has largely been successful). Until nai posts more, it is difficult to tell (as he doesn't have previous game experience I could compare his current posting with).. Hopefully this post will nudge him into action. But as it stands I would like to caution the town NOT to forget about nai and let him sit back and do nothing, because if he's mafia, he'll be able to slip through the whole game unnoticed without having to do anything. | ||
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
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