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On March 10 2010 07:15 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 06:44 Incognito wrote:On March 10 2010 06:22 Foolishness wrote:
Sign me up.
Questions:
Will bus driver be notified if anything happened to the people he switched? (this was mentioned before but you didn't answer)
I assume if a bus driver switches someone who was going to be killed onto someone who was medic protected, that person won't die correct?
If a mad hatter places a bomb on person A, and bus driver switches persons A and B, will B now have a bomb? If so will the mad hatter be notified of this?
If a mad hatter has a bomb on person A and dies during the night (thus person A should die) yet bus driver switches person A and B, will A still die or will B die? No, the bus driver is not notified. If a bus driver switches A, who is being killed, and B, who is being medic protected, then yes, A won't die. But B will. That is correct, B will now have a bomb. I'm not sure if the mad hatter is notified. I'll get back to you on that. All actions happen at the same time. So the switch still happens. B dies instead of A. Whoa, back up there I planned on asking this but thought it through and came to a.. totally different conclusion? Consider A who has medic protection and B who is being hit if you swap A and B, sure you swap the hit, but you also swap the medic protection, so A still dies n'est pas?
i would think that the only thing that switches are the people, and that the actions are stationary.
IE) person A is protected. person B is hit.
bus driver hits the switch.
now person A is hit, and person B is protected.
i could be wrong though, the mod(s) can clarify.
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ermm. make that, people are stationary, actions are fluid.
whatever makes the most sense in each of your individual brains.
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one thing i've noticed in these games is that there's always someone/ multiple people calling for someone to be lynch because of said person's performance in another game.
each game is different, and while someone may just really be a dumbass, i really don't see the point of deciding who to lynch before we've even had elections based on their actions in another game.
let's lynch people playing stupidly and scummy in THIS game.
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On March 11 2010 03:36 Vivi57 wrote:
ok, with this format the detective should roleclaim and get elected as mayor. The second dt can check him on n1 to make sure he's legit. Yes, this leaves some possibility of gf getting mayor as a dt, but we should be able to see through fake role checks soon enough.
With a dt as mayor, we can amass a large group of confirmed townies and use that to win. Ignore anything ace says about lynching all claimers, this move is too powerful to ignore.
yes, the DT who we can't confirm should step up and claim it so we can elect him mayor.
and ace is not playing.
i can never decide if players who play this stupid are just that stupid or mafia who are just that bad.
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yes, but we don't know if we have two DTs, and since we don't know, how do you verify the 2nd DT?
ie) GF claims DT.
gets elected mayor.
DT confirms him as "innocent".
and then mafia member steps up as "2nd DT". only person who can confirm him is the other DT, and by then it's day 2 and the mafia could have hit him, or maybe he decides to use his rolecheck on someone else. so you've got 2 mafia parading around as innocents, and one of them has 3 votes.
i'm just saying, there are too many holes, and it's too risky to elect someone based on just their roleclaim.
and personally, i just wouldn't trust a roleclaim that early, especially from a blue.
if it were me, i'd try to get elected, and if i did, THEN i'd come out and say, "AHA! gotchu hoes. i'm a DT/medic/etc".
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that should say, a supposed "blue".
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On March 11 2010 04:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
A fake DT is going to get spotted rather quickly. Thats the issue the gf has is if he claims it, and doesn't perform insanellllly well. He dies. Not a good move for them.
I do agree rcing can be risky, but its not the worst idea we could be using.
how do you spot a fake DT? this guy could just claim that he invested person A and person A is a townie. i'm willing to bet there's 10+ townies, including the miller possibility. the GF would have a 50/50 chance of guessing a townie and being right and "proving himself". i understand your point, but my point is, why even put ourselves in the position of trying to determine that? i think that using this DT roleclaim plan lends itself to a greater possibility of a GF mayor.
we need plans. we need to elect the person with the best idea of how to win this game, not the guy who roleclaims the fastest.
screw all the idiotic, supposedly entertaining bids for mayor, with all the pictures and nonsense. someone who wants to lead should step up with a viable plan to win this game for the town, and the best/ smartest plan should be implemented, hopefully by the person who suggested it.
ie) if there were elected officials in the last game (and i were playing), i would have voted for 789.
even with all of that said, there is still the chance of the GF being our mayor. i'm just in favor taking the route that gives us a) the best chance of NOT having a GF mayor, and b) if we do have a mafia mayor, identifying him as quickly as possible by anti-town behavior.
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the only reason that post isn't completely useless is because of the corleone quote.
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On March 11 2010 08:25 Fulgrim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. Looking over the rules for the game, it looks like pardoner isn't going to play that much of an important role this game, its more of the mayor that we have to worry about. The mafia want to have the mayor role, and the only way they are going to get it safely is through their godfather. I think its probably safe to say that no "ordinary" mafia are going to be running for office. I propose that we check the mayor on night one, (1-12), and then the other DT(s) 13-25 check town members, because Its important to check the mayor just to be safe, but I think checking the sheriff on the first night (potential gf risk), alot more information and more possiblities to set up town circles. Especially since its not critical if we lose the sheriff role to a godfather, because even if we do there would be no way to tell by simple DT chekcs.
quote for future reference. carry on.
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On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point.
ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument.
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all this talk about checking the mayor and pardoner is useless.
DTs: you need to decide who you think is most scummy when the election is over; mayor or pardoner. then you need to look @ the vote lists, and decide who you believe to be most scummiest there. the mafia will most likely run their GF, and at least 1 or 2 of them will vote for the GF and they'll show up as red.
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On March 11 2010 10:30 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Ah so you must understand? What does "pushing the GF" mean?
no idea, i just saw that his supporting example was incorrect and pointed it out.
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On March 11 2010 10:32 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:30 Versatile wrote:
all this talk about checking the mayor and pardoner is useless.
DTs: you need to decide who you think is most scummy when the election is over; mayor or pardoner. then you need to look @ the vote lists, and decide who you believe to be most scummiest there. the mafia will most likely run their GF, and at least 1 or 2 of them will vote for the GF and they'll show up as red. all of this talk about checking is useless. Maybe we should save it until after the election is over so we don't tell the mafia what to do.
agreed. we're getting ahead of ourselves.
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sorry folks, just got caught up with the thread, haven't had much free time lately. and i knew that might happen, which is why i got my vote in early.
at the time i voted, it was L and incog who were the top candidates and incog read as more pro-town to me, hence my vote.
a couple of things: incog stated he expected more form me in this game. this in itself is not strange, because i'm pretty sure incog is familiar with my playing on another site. however, he called out malongo and foolishness as well. i don't believe malongo has addressed this accusation yet.
however, foolishness not only didn't bother to defend himself to incog or any other player, but went as far as defending incog's post and went back and forth with zona.
this struck me because if zona's not town, who the hell is? check his posts, if i had been around, that's who i would i have changed my vote to.
in any case, i also received an incog PM stating "first". however, i believe the medics need to be protecting zona, and i hope that's what they decide to do.
as i stated earlier, DTs ought to be checking the vote lists. if we have a mafia member in office, it's likely a mafia member or two voted for them, especially with a last minute vote swing, if i read correctly.
i also don't think anyone without protection should be claiming a damn thing to anyone right now. DTs should be investigating and building up their circle in the most secure and legitimate way they can, and it's far too early to be trusting anyone.
going to update my archives now.
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ps: i'm usually quiet in the beginning of a game so that argument is useless.
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On March 12 2010 16:25 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 16 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 12 2010 16 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:12 L wrote:
Oh hey, good of you to join the party.
Did you finally get picked for the mafia team? If not, are you claiming blue by running? Who would you kill if voted mayor and who would you like to get voted in if you can't get in?
Sleep time, but I EXPECT ANSWERS. Yeah L i know u like to get people accounted for. -Not mafia. -Not claimming. But i let you search my rol list from previous games and let you think. -I have 2 people in mind: versatile and one of the people running. Ill post tomorrow my reasons if you like to know. Lynching an inactive/spammer is another chance but i think we can get more info from a more strong lynch at first. There has been some back and forth up to now in the thread. -Im voting you. I know i can spot you doing your weird mafia stuff and i also know you are valuable if town. Honeslty id really want to be there, i hope i dont end up kicking you away from a spot but as i said at this point im a very good player to get in.
i don't think you came back and posted your reasons and who your second lynch candidate was like you said you would? did they make it into office? unless i missed it, and if i did, my apologies. please point it out to me if you wouldn't mind. thanks.
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whoa whoa whoa....where in the US of A does a bar close @ midnight?
let me know so i know never to go there.
partypartypartyletsallgetwasted.
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On March 14 2010 10:50 Vivi57 wrote:
I'd be fine with an L lynch tomorrow. I've been suspicious of him from the start and was actually considering arranging a voteswitch off L to make him not pardoner myself.
Now L is going OMGUS towards bill over a clearly town intended wagon. He's either scum pushing for a mislynch to delay the town or he's town still butthurt about being killed last game and trying to get revenge.
But even though I wasn't there, I will stand behind keeping L out of office as a pro town play. He refused to claim as a dt, even denying being a dt completely, all the while talking about the "other" dt. Now he's pushing towards a townie's lynch. Seriously, don't let L get away with this so easily.
talk about last words...lmao.
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On March 15 2010 02:42 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 01:07 Bill Murray wrote:
It's possible the mafia felt L would be medic protected. More like L knew he was going to be bus driven because we even made it clear in the thread that we had the driver claim to us. As for tomorrow night, I have no idea, I'd rather the driver save his drivin' juice and have the medic focused on the BGs. If the mafia kill me, they'll be proving me legit, which will make a lot of the zero content L-haters on mafia look bad. Either way, the best target for killing tonight is still bill murray. One does not simply walk into vote swings.
i don't care about BM, but are you done bitching about not getting mayor/pardoner?
jeejee (a townie) was leading the charge for the vote-swing so you wouldn't be in office. wow, he was successful, and then he got killed for it. whatevs.
but the fact that he showed up town should at least make people pause about killing everyone he was able to convince.
i know you already wanted to kill BM because of the last game, but that's not a good enough reason. fcuk this revenge shyt and play the game.
ps all: drunk posting = no bueno. unless it's entertaining. which it wasn't.
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and for the record, there's a difference between discussing, and crying like little girls.
if you're still trying to get L claim something, you should already have your answer. he's written a freakin' novel in here already and if he was going to do what you wanted-- guess what, he would have already done it.
no one is changing anyone's mind, you all are just going around in circles and it's ridiculous. vote according to what you have taken from reading the thread.
also, don't randomly call out players as potential lynch candidates and then not respond when they address your allegations. if you couldn't be bothered to follow up, it reads like you were trying to get a bandwagon going on someone who wouldn't be around to defend themselves.
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EPT
