EPTjust have a night where the night killers simultaneously kill the last member of each mafia group
then for each mafia family, the other family has been eliminated, so they win.
The town wins too, as all the mafia are dead.
TL Mafia XVIII
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Zona
40426 Posts
just have a night where the night killers simultaneously kill the last member of each mafia group then for each mafia family, the other family has been eliminated, so they win. The town wins too, as all the mafia are dead. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
40426 Posts
Town Total Victory - eliminate all mafia Town Partial Victory - eliminate at least 15 mafia of any family (and then town dies off) Mafia Family Victory - eliminate all of the other family, AND dominate the town Mafia Partial Victory - eliminate all of the other family (and then die to the town) Then unless factions mutually kill each other off at the same night, only one faction can win a total victory (and at most one other faction may possibly get a partial victory), the game continues until the regular mafia conclusion (living mafia members always have a chance, and the town dies as usual if one mafia family has enough vote power and killing power so that the town cannot succeed.) Still, overall, with 20 mafia out of 50 players, I wouldn't be particularly happy being a town member in this game. Although I do see that the mafia family win conditions are designed so that they hunt the other family first, this actually leaves the town as a sideshow, in a way. And it's so much harder to find and then convince your fellow townies that you both are on the same team, since almost half the players aren't pro-town at all. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
To elaborate on why I think it sucks being a town member in this game, in most mafia games, the only town advantage is that despite being uninformed, a significant majority of your fellow players are town, so you try to convince each other to vote as a group to lynch mafia. But you work with your fellow town members to win. In this game, while it's true that the mafia information advantage is much reduced, it's almost impossible to assemble a team of fellow town members so that lynching can win them the game. The town must rely on or work with mafia families in order to win or even survive, by voting with other mafia or by pointing out mafia for the other mafia family to kill. This is the main reason why I don't foresee it being as fun being a town member, not only do you not know who is on your team, but even if you eventually figure out a good number of them you still need to rely on the mafia to eliminate some of each other in order to have a chance. While as a mafia member you still primarily work only with your team. The town seems more like a backdrop for the fight between the two mafia teams, rather than one side of a big struggle. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
This game is mafia vs mafia, with some townies to the side. The only concern each mafia family have about town members is to redirect their lynch away from their own members, and perhaps score an extra kill on their enemy, but their main tool is their own nightkill against the other mafia family, which isn't fickle like the lynch vote and for most of the game, kills more per night than the lynch does. Town members, however, simply try to not get killed. Unlike a usual game where the lynch is the primary tool to kill mafia, this game is just standing aside/pointing fingers and hoping the mafia kill each other, and perhaps killing a few mafia with the lynch as well. Mafia killing power per day/night cycle is just so much more than the town lynch and there aren't even any vigilantes to augment that, just mad hatters. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
Anyways, I have posted before the game started about the game mechanics and with further thinking now that I have my town role (yay?) as well, the more I solidly believe that town members have relatively low impact on the game compared to mafia. Even if the mafia hit entirely randomly, each hit has initially a 10/41 chance of hitting their target, so after 3 kills, the expected amount of mafia dead is almost 1, for one family. A random lynch on the other hand will more likely than not hit a fellow town member, so the town's ability to advance towards their own objectives is even less than the mafia families' abilities to advance the town objectives. So each night the town probably won't kill a mafia, while each mafia group will likely kill one of the other. It's futile, really. This is very unlike a normal game of mafia where the town has to rely on the lynch to win - other than individual nightkilling town members which usually have limited powers, only the lynch can advance them to their win condition. In this case it's not true - the lynch is a sideshow to the killing powers of each mafia family. So you say the town can try to analyze behavior or clues to help pit each mafia family against each other. Sure. Except that the mafia members can do this as well, and have a much easier time of it, since they have more information than we do. While all of us read the same posts, we as town members need to try to puzzle out two different mafia groups, and each mafia group only has to puzzle out one. Each mafia family already has half the puzzle done for them, while us as town members need to figure out both halves at once, somehow. Actually, I would even suggest that the best play for the mafia should be to just vote randomly or close to it for the lynch just to not reveal information to the other group, since the power of the lynch is so weak compared to the mafia nightkill, especially early on. Anyone the mafia suspects of being on the other team can just be killed with their nightkill, rather than having to vote as a group and possibly reveal themselves to utilize the lynch. The mafia's best plan is to encourage posts so that the other group slips up while giving away as little as possible themselves. So what about the town? Like I said - we should try to point out mafia for the other family to kill - but they already have a better angle to do this than we do. We should try to stay alive - sure, but they aren't even trying to kill us unless we're really digging after them, so perhaps it's even better to stay passive. And finally, we need to help one mafia family if the other is too successful. To be honest, this is the only aspect in which the town can really make a difference to their own fate. The thing is, if one mafia family is doing much better than the other then it's likely that this family is also doing much better in discussion, since the losing family had no better luck than the town in analyzing them, while having MORE information than the town. In this game us town members only serve the purpose of being shields that the mafia families can use to hide from each other. Everyone shouldn't analyze behavior the same way they do in a regular mafia game, because the objectives of the town and each family are entirely different from a regular game. The elected roles are even more important for the mafia than a normal game because these players are protected from the shots of the other group. Each mafia family of course would like their opposing family to shoot town members instead of scoring successful hits, so look out for accusations that end up framing town members. But whatever. Right now as a town member, I'll just watch to see which family scores hits and then try to help the losing family as much as I can. The worst situation for the town is if both mafia families suck and both kill a lot of town members. Then the town is far less likely to achieve a win while the mafia families are still relatively at the same distance towards their own goals. But all of this is not under a town member's control - so it's not something I can worry about, since it's not something we have control over. The town has a much better chance of winning if both mafia group are good at finding the others, but still relatively equally matched. The fate of the town is more in the hands of the other parties than in our own. To the players who are contrasting my behavior from the previous game (and to the mods): It's unfortunate but since in this game the goals of each party are entirely different from a normal game of mafia, the best way to play is also different. Town members shouldn't be relying on the lynch to win until only in the late game, if it gets to that - and thus being passive is better. And since the mafia which want to pretend to be town members should be playing more similarly - the best play right now is to either to lay low, or to spout garbage while not contributing anything useful. And since I don't have it in me to do the latter, I've decided to go with the former. The town really only should step it up once the mafia families become unbalanced. I still think that the game mechanics aren't that great for the town: not in terms of each group's chances to win, but in terms of how much impact members of each group actually have in the outcome of the game. Hopefully after the game a better version of this kind of setup can be discussed, such as a lower member count and killing power for each mafia group, but bonus killpower the night after a successful kill, to encourage mafia vs mafia while still retaining the mafia vs town objectives, which is almost entirely absent in this game. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
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