[SPL] Playoffs - Hwaseung Oz vs CJ Entus Day 1 - Page 82

tobi9999

United States1966 Posts

August 01 2009 07:29 GMT

#1621

I was expecting 4-0 for Oz, but I guess sKyHigh must've practiced hella hard to get a win on Lomo.

The format really helps Oz due to the fact that they have spartan starcraft training

baubo

China3370 Posts

August 01 2009 07:29 GMT

#1622

On August 01 2009 16:12 IntoTheWow wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 01 2009 16:11 OneOther wrote:

On August 01 2009 16:04 NicolBolas wrote:

On August 01 2009 15:56 OneOther wrote:

On August 01 2009 15:42 NicolBolas wrote:

On August 01 2009 15:35 baubo wrote:

On August 01 2009 15:29 FragKrag wrote:

On August 01 2009 15:27 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:

On August 01 2009 15:25 FragKrag wrote:
Movie did a stupid rock-esque arbiter strat and got all his arbs emp'd

Iris got raped by a fucking reaver.

I can't really blame EffOrt or SnOw because nobody expected SnOw to win, and EffOrt just got outplayed by what Jaedong did.

His strat was actually very good, it was the execution that was horrible.

it was terrible. He completely gave away his intentions by building that robo RIGHT by the Nexus. "Oh look, a robo that is unbelievably late, I wonder what is happening".

His recall failed, and it was the best recall he could of gotten.

He would have had a much better chance if he played more regular or whatnot.

...

Do you understand what you're saying? The strategy was PERFECT. That's what makes Hiya's win so unbelievable. By the time Hiya saw the fast arbs, he was already screwed. It was already past the timing when terran could punish such greedy tech play. That's why Hiya kept turtling for his near-maxed army before pushing out.

Movie pretty much already had a 2nd main by the time Hiya pushed out. His advantage was ridiculously huge. But his engagement of the terran army was facepalm worthy.

And therein lies the problem. When the Protoss have an advantage, you never wait for the Terrans to max out before exploiting it. A Maxed-out Terran army, with appropriate upgrades, is just too powerful. You have to cut that ball down and rely on your faster unit production, and you have to do it the minute you have a maxed-out army. If you let the Terrans make the first move, as Movie did here, you lose.

Not true. Sometimes Terran sets up such a good defense that you can't do anything against his three base turtle. As Protoss, if you can;t damage him in any way, you should just expand and get mass gateways up. That's what Movie did, since he wanted to play it safe and not take any unnecessary risks. Engage him with a lot of stasis and storms; abuse the mass gateway count afterwards. It was his below-average Arbiter usage/control that cost him the most. His play in general was good, but he didn't execute correctly at one of the most critical moments.

That only reinforces how bad an idea that kind of fast Arbiter build is. You're skipping a crucial step: Reaver harass. If you can't slow the Terrans down before they've erected said defense, all you have to rely on is trying to hurt their ball of doom.

It's never a good idea to willingly put yourself in a situation where your options are "have everything work out exactly according to plan" or "get steamrolled". That's why Reaver harass is so important, and that's why I'm not particularly fond of this fast Arbiter build.

Yes, if Movie hadn't gotten everything EMP'd in one shot, he'd have been much better off. But having a fall-back plan if the worst should happen would have been a nice idea.

Fast Arbiter is a very good build on Colosseum and other maps that Terran like to turtle on. There's no necessity to slow down the Terran before three bases, because you are putting yourself in a good position for late game anyway. You simply need to deny the fourth base. No matter what happens, it's extremely difficult to stop the Terran from taking three bases. Without Arbiters, it's just not possible to kill the well-upgraded Terran ball. They set you up for a safe victory in the late game as long as you don't make gigantic mistakes like Movie's.

I still dont understand why he didnt 14 nexus... it would lead to a richer economy to build up arbiters, specially if your recall fails.

Probably because he wanted to play safe. It is an incredibly P favored map in PvT after all.

Come to think of it, Movie played REALLY safe that game, and expanded much slower that I expected a toss in that situation. Well, either that or I'm used to seeing Stork and Jangbi. Who both expand like zergs on this map.

Regardless, he would've had the game in the bag if it weren't for his crappy ass control.

OneOther

United States10774 Posts

August 01 2009 07:32 GMT

#1623

:O Colosseum is pretty damn balanced PvT

Mykill

Canada3402 Posts

August 01 2009 07:37 GMT

#1624

P only has a small advantage.
Movie coulda done better.
he's seriously a cointoss. he either jangbi storms everything and becomes the strongest 7th dragon or decides to be (P)

Rock

739

Bearded Elder29905 Posts

August 01 2009 07:37 GMT

#1625

Holy crap. That sucks as hell, especially if it comes to Super Ace where probably we will see Jeadong killing alien EffOrt AGAIN :\\\\

hiro protagonist

1294 Posts

August 01 2009 07:39 GMT

#1626

On August 01 2009 16:00 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:

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Same, the matches just seemed weighted towards cj, but Oz came with some very well prepared and executed builds. Smart smart coach.

good points there, that is pretty good wost case scenario. OZ did a great job in preping the players for there games. If It does go to super ace, maybe they wont send out Effort but some curve ball like Skyhigh or Movie.

I wonder if JD is working on any zvt or zvp????

still if OZ plays like they did today, there wont be a super ace

baubo

China3370 Posts

August 01 2009 07:40 GMT

#1627

On August 01 2009 16:32 OneOther wrote:
:O Colosseum is pretty damn balanced PvT

I beg to differ. Terrans are pretty much limited to 3 bases given how far the 4th is. While protoss can expand all over the place while recalling, to abuse terran's lack of mobility. Plus it's always a bit problematic when you can't expand in the path of your push.

tobi9999

United States1966 Posts

August 01 2009 07:43 GMT

#1628

jaedong lost to effort in GOM on purpose to give him the false idea that he could beat him.

OneOther

United States10774 Posts

August 01 2009 07:45 GMT

#1629

On August 01 2009 16:40 baubo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Terran gets 3 bases really easily and super fast upgrades. The bases are also easy to defend against recalls. It doesn't matter how much Protoss can expand. If they don't execute the first attack flawlessly with perfect Arbiter and HT usage, they lose. It's a balanced map for that reason; Terran can pump a shitload of units off three bases and doesn't need a fourth base until later.

TwoToneTerran

United States8841 Posts

August 01 2009 07:46 GMT

#1630

On August 01 2009 16:43 tobi9999 wrote:
jaedong lost to effort in GOM on purpose to give him the false idea that he could beat him.

Jaedong lost to Effort in GOM because he had like 20 matches in a week to practice for and giving his all for a tournament he's won before, where he'll most likely have to add taking on Flash in a Bo5 to his schedule, and waste even more precious practice time for just isn't worth it.

I have no doubt that progamers take GOM seriously, but only when they have the time to. The burden of triple tourney, proleague every day schedules.

]343[

United States10328 Posts

August 01 2009 08:18 GMT

#1631

ahhhh wtf got all matches right in FPL

EXCEPT FIRST CHOICE IRIS > PERFECTMAN

wtf is this T____T

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

August 01 2009 08:18 GMT

#1632

OZ had the better matchups today, CJ looks to have the better matchups tomorrow. I expect this to go to super ace, but with JD standing in CJ's way I'm feeling more unsettled now then I did after CJ went down 0-1 to KHAN.