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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:36 gonzaw wrote:
...create more chaos and disrupt the thread, and serve no constructive purpose. It fuels other people to be aggressive to you while you are aggressive to them in a non-specific manner. It doesn't add anything to the discussion, nor generates any type of scumhunting whatsoever.
If you don't like my playstyle, lynch me. Or are you too afrad??? I'm an aggressive player. Deal.
On April 12 2012 04:36 gonzaw wrote:
You disappear since the middle of N1 mostly and don't reappear until now, and you do so to post some stuff about VE's claim (yet you don't comment on the previous things discussed about him), and you disrupt the thread with posts like these.
VE's claim overshadows EVERYTHING he said previously. He did not need to claim, and he did. He is scum. Does the previous case matter on him? Sure. But it is all overshadowed by his claim.
On April 12 2012 04:36 gonzaw wrote:
Are you, wbg, Toad and VE scum?
If at least 1 of you is town, I'll be very disappointed.
suck it*
*"it" in this sentence is a lollipop, not a penis
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I do find people attempt to discredit VE's claim disturbing. I believe if there is a DT he is sane and BH and some other dudes who took into account that "75% of the time, the DT is wrong." are scummy.
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On April 12 2012 04:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also VE's list is basically alternating town/scum
Every odd name is town and every even name is scum lol
You actually think johnnywup is scum?
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:39 ghost_403 wrote:
@BH: I'm not arguing that, but arguing that there is a 2 out of 3 chance that his role is wrong. Assuming that he is, in fact, a DT, it's more likely that his check came back accurate.
Assuming that he is, in fact, a DT, there are THREE possibilities.
1) Sane
2) Insane
3) Paranoid
HE CANNOT BE NAIVE BECAUSE HE GOT A SCUM RESULT.
Of these three possibilities, only one is "Sane"
The other two are not "Sane"
Therefore there is a 2 out of 3 chance his role is wrong.
oh shit that's right Bh up in dis with some math
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Gonzaw I agree with you completely:
WBG - scum BH - scum Toad or VE - scum
For some reason the timing of WBG and BH and how they are ignoring everything and purposely trying to derail the discusssion and act like VE is dead makes me think VE is telling the truth. They don't post ever then come in just be like YYYYYYYYEAHHHHH FUCK YOU VE YOU SCUM SCUM SCUM. Ignore everything and act like they have been part of the town scum-hunting AT ALL.
VE for YOUR OWN SAKE answer my post honestly:
On April 12 2012 03:17 Mementoss wrote:
VE a couple of questions for you.
Why would you claim after we lost 3 blues last night?
Why would you claim when the votes were split evenly on both sides?
Why would you claim with over half the day to go?
Why would you try and push a Hassy train lynch, assuming he was scum potentially pulling attention to yourself in the night kill?
Why would you claim, before you could guarentee your sanity? (coulda tried for toad lynch then if you were right you were most likely sane, you weren't done yet, it wasn't even close)
I like how either people are lurking or scum is actively burying posts. Toad defended so much and commented on anything to bury every shred of good posts about him or VE so people would have to search for it. It was awful.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:41 FourFace wrote:
I do find people attempt to discredit VE's claim disturbing. I believe if there is a DT he is sane and BH and some other dudes who took into account that "75% of the time, the DT is wrong." are scummy.
Look, the thing is: If you're Ve, why would you claim in this situation? You wouldn't, would you, because you don't know your own sanity. You'd hold on and get another check to figure things out.
Unless you were scum.
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On April 12 2012 04:41 FourFace wrote:
I do find people attempt to discredit VE's claim disturbing. I believe if there is a DT he is sane and BH and some other dudes who took into account that "75% of the time, the DT is wrong." are scummy.
Lol, wtf? Explain how you think his claim was a pro-town move. Please! I'm dying to hear this.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:43 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:41 FourFace wrote:
I do find people attempt to discredit VE's claim disturbing. I believe if there is a DT he is sane and BH and some other dudes who took into account that "75% of the time, the DT is wrong." are scummy. Lol, wtf? Explain how you think his claim was a pro-town move. Please! I'm dying to hear this.
I've got an explanation! 4F trying to save his scumbuddy
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@BH: You're assuming there is an equal probability of each flavor of DT being in the game. If that was true, GMarsh included a troll roll in this game. Most of the time, the DT is going to be wrong. That's just a terrible game setup.
It makes more sense for the game setup to favor a sane DT, but include the possibilities of the other flavors. Something like a 70-10-10-10 distribution would make much more sense, from a balance perspective.
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On April 12 2012 04:44 ghost_403 wrote:
@BH: You're assuming there is an equal probability of each flavor of DT being in the game. If that was true, GMarsh included a troll roll in this game. Most of the time, the DT is going to be wrong. That's just a terrible game setup.
It makes more sense for the game setup to favor a sane DT, but include the possibilities of the other flavors. Something like a 70-10-10-10 distribution would make much more sense, from a balance perspective.
Who CARES? Why are we even discussing possible alignments? No town DT would claim like that knowing there was a possibility that they were scum. End of story. That's it. It's over. Stop this useless discussion of well maybe he's insanely sane or something hurr durr. He's scum. Lynch him.
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@gonzaw
I'm ignoring most of the crap going on because to address it would be to fuel more useless discussion. There is no reason right now to keep asking players about their opinions about anyone and everyone because town focus should be on killing VE. Once votes have been established and it's likely VE will die we can think about other things, such as where to look afterward. I can assure you there will be no progress unless town lynches VE or Toad; VE has forced the lynch to be between himself and Toad with the claim.
I recall someone saying I've been posting fluff and that I'm likely to be scum (mementoss I think) and most of the arguments aren't even worth responding to because they would (ironically) derail the thread. I'll respond now as succinctly as possible, since it's clear people still somehow don't think I'm town. I'm being accused by this guy of trying to derail the thread, but anyone who is actually reading would know that that is absurd. I've been trying to consolidate votes on people I think are scum all game. He claims asking for a DT check on ST would be a waste despite the fact that sanities exist in this game (and I even clearly explained why my DT and vig lists had significant overlap). DTs in this game are really weak because of the checks and balances against them (sanities and alignment masking) therefore it is actually very good to have DT and vig targets the same, since the sooner DTs can see the flips of their targets, the sooner they can figure out their sanities.
If there is anything else you want addressed go ahead and let me know, since I don't actually consider anything that has been said against me to actually be worth anything.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:44 ghost_403 wrote:
@BH: You're assuming there is an equal probability of each flavor of DT being in the game. If that was true, GMarsh included a troll roll in this game. Most of the time, the DT is going to be wrong. That's just a terrible game setup.
It makes more sense for the game setup to favor a sane DT, but include the possibilities of the other flavors. Something like a 70-10-10-10 distribution would make much more sense, from a balance perspective.
That's a fair point. But even in the 70-10-10-10 setup, there's a possibility of being insane. Even with a 20% possibility of being paranoid or insane, you'd anticipate a DT waiting until D3 to claim.
VE was by no means backed into a corner. We're not even halfway through D2. I find the timing of his claim coupled with the sureness of it (given the sanity constraints) to be scummy. I think that if VE were a DT he'd not claim for another 12ish hours, and even then, only if he was really sure he couldn't push the lynch himself.
VE is not a bad player. I am surprised he has made a bad play.
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To add to who I think is scum, Grackaroni is lurking scum, compare his filter this game to his filter in Aperature.
Where the fuck has he been?
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On April 12 2012 04:36 gonzaw wrote:
[...]
Are you, wbg, Toad and VE scum?
If at least 1 of you is town, I'll be very disappointed.
Ok I know you won't like it because what I am about to say really IS speculation but here we go:
GM does not true-rnd his setups. He tries to make both teams even. I'd say we got either 3 vets in this game (WBG, Jackal, VE) or 5 vets in this game (WBG, Jackal, VE, BH, myself) however I would not call myself a vet at all and I doubt GM would call me like that.
That means GM will never ever make a team like consisting out of vets only... There's one vet who is mafia. That guy is VE and wbg and jackal both are town. Neither BH (lol?) nore I should be considered to be vets.
Also that's an answer about the odds: I doubt GM actually true-rnd's sanities. VE is a mafia but if there's a nother DT in this game I'd say GM considered the set-up and decided wether a really strong PR (sane), a strong PR later (insane), or a useless PR (those other 2) fits the set-up.
Still the chances of that happening are somewhat equal. Yeah I'm not sure about it but the point is merely that VE talking about this like it's helping his case AT ALL is wrong.
As mentioned it's speculation about the set-up but imo it's a reasonable guess and saying it's VE + wbg + toad + bh is just paranoid. And that's me talking, the king of being paranoid.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
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On April 12 2012 04:41 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also VE's list is basically alternating town/scum
Every odd name is town and every even name is scum lol You actually think johnnywup is scum?
Read my post again -_-
Johnny's name is FIRST, one being an ODD number.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:30 gonzaw wrote:
IMPORTANT:
People, does anyone have confirmation that the sanities of cops are RNGed uniformly?
People are assuming DTs have a 1/4th chance of being sane, but I haven't seen anybody give proof of that.
My intuition tells me DTs are more likely to be sane, like have a 40% chance of being so, then have less chance of being Insane (maybe 30%), and then even less chance of being Paranoid/Naive (15%/15%).
Of course those percentages are arbitrary, but I assume it's because of this:
If a DT is Paranoid/Naive, he is completely useless, and every other mechanic in the game that involves him (checks, Framers, Millers, etc) is useless. So in terms of balance, it's less likely they'll be in a game than a Sane or Insane cop.
So if someone has confirmation of this please post.
Hrrrrrr. I don't think we have any confirmation of RNG uniformity. Paranoid/naive is useless, but is there a rule that all blue roles have to help town? Also I'm sure you're aware there have been mafia games on this forum with framers/millers but no DTs, so the role distribution doesn't always have to actually make sense.
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On April 12 2012 04:43 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:41 FourFace wrote:
I do find people attempt to discredit VE's claim disturbing. I believe if there is a DT he is sane and BH and some other dudes who took into account that "75% of the time, the DT is wrong." are scummy. Look, the thing is: If you're Ve, why would you claim in this situation? You wouldn't, would you, because you don't know your own sanity. You'd hold on and get another check to figure things out. Unless you were scum.
Because DT is not that important to town with all the modifiers and shit. If he was mafia he would've waited until there's a majority on him or not .. idn. I really don't. But you can't be that sure either which is why i think it's suspicious that you claim to be so sure. If VE is DT we can figure out his sanity together, and if he gets killed.. he supplied us with sufficient info. We got enough time to deal with this DT claim which is what we want. On Night 2 he can tell us who he checks and I think our medics should protect him. He's basically our homeboy now.
Yeah I'm defending my hombwoy .. you scum?
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On April 12 2012 04:49 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:41 Risen wrote:On April 12 2012 04:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also VE's list is basically alternating town/scum
Every odd name is town and every even name is scum lol You actually think johnnywup is scum? Read my post again -_- Johnny's name is FIRST, one being an ODD number.
Whoops, I meant to say you actually DON'T think johnnywup is scum. My bad.
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On April 12 2012 04:43 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:41 FourFace wrote:
I do find people attempt to discredit VE's claim disturbing. I believe if there is a DT he is sane and BH and some other dudes who took into account that "75% of the time, the DT is wrong." are scummy. Look, the thing is: If you're Ve, why would you claim in this situation? You wouldn't, would you, because you don't know your own sanity. You'd hold on and get another check to figure things out. Unless you were scum.
Imagine VE didn't claim at all.
Tell me why you think he's scum then. Discuss the previous cases or thoughts, post thoughts of your own agreeing with those cases or creating original content.
Post your thoughts on Wbg and what other people said about him. Post your thoughts on other lurkers, like zelblade/Katina/Grack/Adam/etc.
On April 12 2012 04:42 Mementoss wrote:Gonzaw I agree with you completely: WBG - scum BH - scum Toad or VE - scumFor some reason the timing of WBG and BH and how they are ignoring everything and purposely trying to derail the discusssion and act like VE is dead makes me think VE is telling the truth. They don't post ever then come in just be like YYYYYYYYEAHHHHH FUCK YOU VE YOU SCUM SCUM SCUM. Ignore everything and act like they have been part of the town scum-hunting AT ALL. VE for YOUR OWN SAKE answer my post honestly:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:17 Mementoss wrote:
VE a couple of questions for you.
Why would you claim after we lost 3 blues last night?
Why would you claim when the votes were split evenly on both sides?
Why would you claim with over half the day to go?
Why would you try and push a Hassy train lynch, assuming he was scum potentially pulling attention to yourself in the night kill?
Why would you claim, before you could guarentee your sanity? (coulda tried for toad lynch then if you were right you were most likely sane, you weren't done yet, it wasn't even close) I like how either people are lurking or scum is actively burying posts. Toad defended so much and commented on anything to bury every shred of good posts about him or VE so people would have to search for it. It was awful.
Yes, it's obvious none of them are even trying to create a good atmosphere and lead town successfully, and not even seem to care about the game or town direction.
I'll definitely push a lynch on wbg/BH on D3, but sadly we need to end this Toad vs VE problem right now if we ever want to win and see a good town atmosphere ever again.
Wbg's and BH's actions so far indicate that they are trying to save Toad. Maybe they could be bussing VE or not. It seems unlikely scum would create such a magnificent 4-way bus like this, but all of them are so scummy as fuck that it's a possibility.
The other possibility is Toad/wbg/BH being scum and VE town; If wbg/BH are scum, Toad town and VE scum it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
So If VE is scum and Toad town, then I think at least one of wbg/BH is town, which is another huge stretch considering their behaviour so far.
Toad, Ve, please comment on BH and Wbg's actions these past few pages.
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EPT
