EPTTL Mafia LI - Page 72
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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FourFace
701 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:26 FourFace wrote: That would be me.. I'm open for questioning and will answer to the best of my ability without emotional interference. OH HEY HE FINALLY SHOWS HIS FACE(S) Are you gonna actually contribute or just continue whining | ||
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Jitsu
United States929 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote: My check doesn't confirm anything until Toad flips. But MY suspicion on his is strengthened, and I can't help that. But I know it's true. Toad is scum and he and his ilk about to pull one of the biggest upsets in Team Liquid history. johnnywup,Katina, Zealos, Blazinghand, Toadesstern, Jitsu Fuck yeah, let's do this. What the actual fuck? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Surprised your scumbuddy is bussing you I see | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:11 wherebugsgo wrote: HAHAHAH I was thinking the exact same things as you :D Kill VE; no DT would claim D2 with a red check and claim he's "probably" sane because there's no way for any DT to know his own sanity before he gets 2-3 checks on FLIPPED players back. In other words if he were actually a DT the likelihood of him having an incorrect check on Toad is astronomical. If toad is actually green it could mean paranoia, framer, insanity, miller; four things a town DT would consider before claiming he is "probably" sane. I just finished reading the entire block of 10 or so pages but honestly VE's reactions to everything have made this really easy. This is exactly why I'm unsure about the whole ordeal. It seems like such an obvious mistake to claim now that I can't imagine VE did this without a hidden agenda. The question is whether it's mafia or town aligned. I just can't believe he'd post something that's very likely to get him lynched without a good reason. Whether mafia or town, the post signed his death sentence so clearly that I can't help but feel we're missing something, or do you feel confident this was just a massive misplay on his part? | ||
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Katina
United States454 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:17 VisceraEyes wrote: This isn't over. There are still thinkers in the thread. People willing to read the thread and see the truth. I have faith. You better have faith you're not going to hell, dirty scum! I, Fair Lady Wherebugsgo shall lead the crusade against thy Heathen flesh! /endretardedmedievalspeech I find it quite funny that the guy who harped on and on about Toad's use of the word "confirmed" is now using the same word to describe his claimed DT check. You can't confirm a sanity-based check without a flip! | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
People, does anyone have confirmation that the sanities of cops are RNGed uniformly? People are assuming DTs have a 1/4th chance of being sane, but I haven't seen anybody give proof of that. My intuition tells me DTs are more likely to be sane, like have a 40% chance of being so, then have less chance of being Insane (maybe 30%), and then even less chance of being Paranoid/Naive (15%/15%). Of course those percentages are arbitrary, but I assume it's because of this: If a DT is Paranoid/Naive, he is completely useless, and every other mechanic in the game that involves him (checks, Framers, Millers, etc) is useless. So in terms of balance, it's less likely they'll be in a game than a Sane or Insane cop. So if someone has confirmation of this please post. @WBG: I see you keep ignoring everything and you don't even try to participate in the discussions, or comment about what other people think of you (those that think you are scum/suspicious), etc. @4Face: Yes, this thread is a mess, but please make some effort and either post your thoughts on VE/Toad, or at least post your thoughts on other players like wbg/BH/etc. @BH: Contribute more please. What do you think about ST flipping? You focused all your energy on D1/N1 on him, why? Why haven't you contributed and pressured people like you are used to? On April 12 2012 04:17 Katina wrote: I have stated my reasons for wanting to kill Toad day1 take a look at my filter. Everyone has basically been saying everything for me today. If there's something you want me to give then please feel free to ask. Post your thoughts on wbg, BH, and other players that are discussing things right now yet are slightly suspicious, like ghost, Tunkeg, etc. On April 12 2012 03:47 Toadesstern wrote: Sorry I tried but I was kinda buisy defending myself from people trying to lynch me over nothing when I am actually looking really good imo. So sorry I have to tell you that I haven't reread the thread yet, that shit is long and it takes forver especially with people like VE and myself. I can finally see why erandorr hates me so much. What thoughts are you referring to? I am not going to post about everything if you want to hear about something specific ask more specific I am not going to shit up the thread even more. I think the basic stuff is covered though (VE fakeclaiming, me being awesome, you tunneling me). About the "case" on you. In a nutshell it's something like that: I don't think someone like you (read: kind of new) would be so confident about his read when basicly everyone and their dog are telling you that your case is a null. I read that as a tunneling townie early on because that sounds like a little me from L or risk.nuke or whatever. However this is getting malicious and I think you're doing that on purpose. Sure you can argue that I am shitting up the thread but you AND VE are attacking me right now. What am I supposed to do? Let the two most vocal players in this game (besides me) keep on bombing the thread telling everyone how I am mafia when I am not? I can't do that, so I have to answer this. I am pretty sure you know that I have to answer those things. You've got VE saying I am shitting up the thread because I am posting so much and you are saying I am ignoring you're questions and not answering at all. A classic lose-lose situation for me and I am pretty confident you are doing that on purpose because a townie would give me a little rest for a day to observe what I am like if I actually got time to do shit myself. So you think I'm mafia solely because of my interactions with you? I'll repeat myself once again: Please reread the thread and my filter, don't take my "tunneling" of you into account, and post why you think I'm mafia | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote: My check doesn't confirm anything until Toad flips. But MY suspicion on his is strengthened, and I can't help that. But I know it's true. Toad is scum and he and his ilk about to pull one of the biggest upsets in Team Liquid history. johnnywup,Katina, Zealos, Blazinghand, Toadesstern, Jitsu Fuck yeah, let's do this. This is so frustrating, because your suspicion on him cannot be strengthened. If toad is scum he would have as likely returned innocent to you as guilty. It's just faulty reasoning. It's like flipping a coin and going "if it's heads, it makes me even surer there will be sun tomorrow!" | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Every odd name is town and every even name is scum lol | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:30 gonzaw wrote: @BH: Contribute more please. What do you think about ST flipping? You focused all your energy on D1/N1 on him, why? Why haven't you contributed and pressured people like you are used to? A) sucks to be you. deal with it B) I'm alarmed that S.T flipped blue. He played like shit. I pushed him D1 and N1 because he was playing like scum. Now I have other priorities. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:18 Tunkeg wrote: Hells YEAH. Probably the best player in this game agrees with me. Come on bitches (Mementoss, and marvellosity) nitpick on him as well, I dare you, you no good bastards! Thank god there is a sane voice in this crowd, because playing with the likes of those two make me want to tear my eyes out. Instead of focusing all you do is nitpick and post fluff. Telling people what not to do, instead of actually contributing. Thats it /end rant. WBG made my day! I already did. In this post that probably got missed. Oh yeah I forgot your ignoring me. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 01:17 Mementoss wrote: My Thoughts on VE vs Toad Toad: + Show Spoiler + During all of day 1, I didn't really think this guy was that scummy at all. Just recently, with his "big" cases did I notice his scumminess sneaking through. 1. Desperate to confirm towniness: On April 11 2012 15:19 Toadesstern wrote: Phase 2 - Votes on Day 1 More onto why I am "confirmed" Look into the people who voted d1 and how they voted. We killed a townie with Janaan. I am pretty sure there's plenty of mafia on him as we had A LOT of troubles getting a lynch at all. Town was probably derping hardcore d1. I guess VE read that I think Hassy is mafia but did not comment on it because he did not think it was a threat because everyone ignored it. Once WBG got in the thread and placed his vote and I did the same he suddenly says he thinks Hassy is Mafia out of nowhere and places his vote there. There's 2 options here: EITHER Hassy is simply mafia and VE did not think it was a threat at all considering we only had like 4 hours left and need 16 people on Hassy and therefore wanted something to later point back and say "lookielookie, I tried killing hassy d1" only to switch later to janaan. The other option is Hassy being a townie, although I doubt that's possible. In that case VE just did whatever he wanted to because both targets are town. This whole quote is complete bullshit. Its all WIFOM, and doesn't confirm town at all. It would be good for tricking people not thinking that you are town. Why do you doubt Hassy being a townie is possible? Wtf. Explain please. Your whole confirmed townie relys on this, and its not even a fact. Also at many other points during the game you said how confirming town was important, when really, if you scum-hunt and put in effort people will think your town. Making yourself look town shouldn't be your concern espeically on day 1. 2. The case on VE felt really really forced. There were some decent points that I noted as well, his behaviour day 1 was really odd. But then just to make it bigger, you added in a shit load of meta and WIFOM. That should be added as an addition to the case, but it seemed like this was the big focus of your case, and was 50% of it rather than an addition. Sorry Im not lynching basing purely on WIFOM and meta. 3. Attempt to tunnel the town in day 2. Self Explanatory. YOU DIE TOMMORROW thing with Gonzaw. It was purely OMGUS, and sorry but your 1 vote doesn't decide the towns action toad. He is basing it off day 1 opinions not even waiting for information we get from the night kills and further discussion. Also the comment saying we lynch hassy then VE and we win. Wat VE: + Show Spoiler + Initially through day 1, with all the vote switching and generally awkward playstyle I felt like you were scummy for sure. But as of today your case against Toad so far has been way better than his case against you, your defense on his case also seemed legit. Your case is based more on his actions this game and not WIFOM and meta. Also why would you try adn push a Hassy case if Janaan was town. WIFOM, I think that mafia killed Midnight so that people would go for you, also I think Zealos is scummy, and he is actively defending Toad without any reason. More on that later though. Side Cases Zealos + Show Spoiler + This case is all about, inconsistencies, lurkiness, lack of opinion, and avoiding. I already pointed out Zealos random loyality to WBG, without explanation. Then after im done, he gives up and avoids it all together. Fuck it right the spotlights not on him. On April 10 2012 22:19 Mementoss wrote: Well seeing how 6 of your last 7 posts are about WBG im interested in why you so actively defending him or promoting his "awesome" play this game. It's not like he was a huge target and you thought he really was town. Its either a noob sheeping behind a player he has respect for , or a scum buddy protecting another scum buddy. Honestly, its like your OMGUS for him, Hassy says something about him negatively and you automatically assume hes scum? + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2012 20:17 Zealos wrote: It's funny you of all people should talk of how to act as a blue role ^^ On topic though, I still want Johnny dead, he's useless, and I'll show you why in the day. I would also say Hassy is also very scummy. Going at WBG, are you kidding? He's one of the few useful posters right now, and probably one of the strongest town players in the game. On April 10 2012 20:24 Zealos wrote: Well, I'm not a veteran of these forums, but it seems like WBG is giving a lot of pro town reads and promoting a scum hunting atmosphere. He may well be a good scum player, but that isn't relevant. On April 10 2012 20:40 Zealos wrote: It would mean at worst, that he is just a bad town, however, the way in which he is honest about his reads means he isn't trying to hide his agenda, which is townie play imo, and even if comparatively he isn't good town, I would still bet he's a lot better than some of the newer players here. Read: Me It also means I didn't read the thread thoroughly enough today ^^ On April 10 2012 20:52 Zealos wrote: I'm pretty sure you were the first to bring up his past play? (being good at mafia and not town) I originally stated that I thought his town play was good, and was promoting a scum hunting atmosphere. I am failing to see what exactly you are scared of from WBG, are you scum? and afraid of him catching you out? Maybe you just want to make the whole thread get derailed again? I feel this is the last we should talk of his past play, and instead look at the fact he has been playing strong all game, and if I can avoid it, won't be lynched any time soon. On April 10 2012 20:55 Zealos wrote: I did use my own brain, if you read my original statement. But ok. Who do you think is the most scummy so far? WBG? Or someone else? Lol 6 posts. Why is him being good scum not relevant? He hasn't done anything really townie in my eyes so maybe hes tricking the shit out of you. Or you both are just scum. Also you mention him actively scum-hunting, can you back it up? Cause honestly I don't see it in his filter. I find the quote of you at the top of this post really ironic cause besides throw down a vote and blow your load for WBG you haven't done anything to influence this game or help the town in any way. Step up your game in day 2, your presence in day 1 didn't affect anyones decision on anything, nor bring any new opinions to the table. Lets just say I wouldn't cry if you were shot. Here is him defending WBG, cannot back it up and just ignores it. On April 11 2012 17:51 Zealos wrote: It's a fair point you make in the 2nd half of the post, and should have said that to begin with, instead of getting so pissy. I think it's easy to point me as inactive as I miss most of the discussion while I am asleep, and have to catch up and try to post something useful in the morning. I think WBG is very difficult to analyse. I am leaning towards scum, but I think VE would be a stronger lynch for today. Kenpachi seems useless, making odd votes and not often trying to make a case about it, or convince the rest of town to vote the same way. I think you are town. However, I also think you are getting too emotionally attached to the game and need to step back and look at the bigger picture. An angry town is a bad town, we need to analyse posts with objectivity in order to get the best reads. Scum VisceraEyes Possibly Toad, based on the VE flip Suspicious Kenpachi Zelblade (inactivity and unwilling to post, I'd like him to answer the same questions as me) The people I think are town Jitsu ET Gonzaw Toad (again, depending on whether or not VE flips mafia) What, now WITHOUT REASON WBG is leaning scum. Why? Explain yourself damnit! Also this is one of his posts responding to me saying hes useless. This is his idea of scum hunting. Making a list. Great job. On April 11 2012 19:24 Zealos wrote: Oh, and I also think Johnnywup is scum. Randomly stated in Day 2. Says his explanation is from day 1, lets check that out. On April 09 2012 18:41 Zealos wrote: I like your point on Grack, and it's one that hasn't been talked about much already. I agree that he seems to be posting a lot of filler and not really deciding on much. He seems like a pretty typical lurker, and I would lynch him if no better target appeared. BUT: I think Johnny seems the strongest target atm. You make a good point when you notice him just jumping on with no real reasoning. As I said earlier, people who just vote with no analysis or reason for their vote seem very scummy for me, so I'm going to agree with you on that point. ##vote: johnnywup But, this makes no sense Zealos. Your reasoning for voting and finding Johnny scummy is his bandwagoning early on Risen, but who you thought was strongly town and defended WBG, did the same thing to the same person. Inconsisent in his views. Making shit up on the spot. On April 12 2012 00:37 Zealos wrote: ^^ I have made stances and useful posts, if not in the VE and Toad style of posting a huge wall of text in the guise of "Being active" Also, Marvel's only real criticism is just a lot of use of the old catchall catchphrase WIFOM, which VE himself called out to be a pointless phrase, and only leads to pointless discussion. Points out people being useless, and need to work on scumhunting, like he has been doing all game. Oh wait, here is what he was doing. Lets go through it. 1st post, OMGUS, you think WBG is scummy, YOUR SCUM! 2nd post, WIFOM, toad flips scum VE is town and vice vera, not scum hunting 3rd post, Summary: -Kenpachi useless, no shit -WBG leaning scum hard to analyse, then why is he leaning scum and not null? Explain -Here is a cop out list, so it looks like I have opinions, without having to explain myself! Brillllliant! Overall Zealos has been posting enough so people know his name. But has not brought a unique case or idea to the table, basically just states what he agrees and disagrees with and has been inconsistent with his own opinions. Also against VE for being a hypocrite, posting a case against Toad just because OMGUS. Well don't you rememeber when Toad did this to Gonzaw? YOU GUNNA DIE TOMMORROW GONZZZZAW. <- direct quote btw. Inconsistent yet again in his thoughts. Can't keep together his made up story. WBG: + Show Spoiler + Look at his filter. Initially starts with fluff and explaining himself. Then goes to asking everyone questions about anything, while avoiding following up on the answer. Or actually giving his opinion on anything. "There are currently two people I'd like to lynch, one whom I won't mention because I want to see him post more without my intervention." Avoiding stating his opinion with statements like this. I want to see what other people post so I can agree or disagree or restate it. Derp, I don't have an opinion I am scumm. On April 10 2012 05:36 wherebugsgo wrote: Also of note he wants to line up the lynches and gives no regard to the possibility that he could be wrong. He's actually trying to dictate day 2's lynch today (by saying we should kill St tomorrow) ##unvote ##vote Hassybaby Inconsistency. Just like his scum buddy Zealos. His reason for voting Hassy was for saying who we should lynch afterwards. Which is a poor reason and was barely dug into hassy's case at all, UNTIL VE was like here is a case, and WBG was like oh man I agree. That is why I suspected him too I just never said it. Why is this inconsistent thinking? This reason for voting hassy doens't apply to Toad? Toad did the exact same thing saying Hassy then VE and we win. On April 10 2012 09:05 wherebugsgo wrote: From my perspective, I found it somewhat odd that people were all of a sudden willing to lynch Hassy. I didn't expect it, but I didn't care much because I need support to be able to kill Hassy anyway. So far the support has not come from suspicious players to me (I count one potential scum in the Hassy lynch supporters, unless I'm just being bad right now) To me this indicates one of a few different possibilities; 1. Hassy was scummy to several people but not brought up because of the current sentiment to lynch Janaan (i.e. potential resistance to a new lynch this late would make it difficult or possibly even impossible to kill Hassy) 2. Janaan is scum and Hassy is town, which indicates scum want to kill Hassy over Janaan. We'd find out relatively quickly if that were the case, though, I think. (and by that, I mean within a cycle or so) So far I don't find any glaring indications of this. 3. Both are town, both are scum, or Hassy is scum and Janaan is town; in the first case, anything goes. In both of the second cases resistance to a Hassy lynch is just indication of a good lynch. His posts consist of shit like this. Wasting time, not important and derailing discussion. Look through his filter. Look how much independant (aka not being prodded or copying another case) scum-hunting he did. Thats right you can't find any. Trying to get town cred by not being on the Janaan train until later. Completely off Hassys ass after the flip, without really giving a good reason for it. After being so confident he was a scum. Defended Vig against toad yesterday, but wanted vig against michael and Jackal, two people dead and town. On April 10 2012 13:20 wherebugsgo wrote: I meant ST would make a good DT check, not ghost, sorry. Trying to waste DT check? ST would be a horrrrible DT check. He had a high chance of being shot that night, and was just a shitty shitty player. On April 10 2012 13:24 wherebugsgo wrote: Your "analysis" based on his vote switching doesn't determine anything, particularly because, as you mentioned, he only switched his vote twice in Arkham where he was scum. Just because there's one instance of him switching a lot in Storm (a game full of really stupid plays day 1) that doesn't carry anything over to this game. All you've done in this post really is summarize VE's play...summarizing VE's play doesn't show us why he's scum. In fact, his switch back to Janaan to ensure that we actually lynch someone is a pretty pro-town move, albeit one that CAN be made by both alignments. If he was scum I doubt he would have supported a Hassy counterlynch to begin with unless Hassy was also town (and that would have been a brilliant move by any scum) Defends VT earlier.. But yet nothing new has come in play. And now he is voting for VE. ... Since it seems between VE and Toad, just defending his scum again? (vigshot and lynch) On April 11 2012 05:56 wherebugsgo wrote: sure, that's fine if you disagree. Toad is one of those players who is generally so unreadable for me I just ignore him and let the other mafia die first. So far we haven't been in a situation where Toad would become readable; we need to see whether he will be willing to kill mafia or not. As no mafia have flipped, how do we know he is? If a player admits to something that is normally really bad to admit, chances are they are not actually scum because scum usually would not purposely admit something like that. New scum, at any rate. Johnnywup is a relatively new player, and while he has said some (somewhat suspicious) things, I don't find him as scummy as other players because he actually has been relatively active and transparent. Those are luxuries not normally afforded by scum. He has certainly been more active than most of the targets I proposed. He has as many posts as you do, for one. New players sheeping well-known players isn't necessarily a scummy trait, IMO. Johnnywup's town team in C9++ won almost solely because they sheeped sandroba and VE, for one. I actually thought him saying that he was sheeping VE was simply indicative of him tending toward a strategy that previously proved effective. Defneding Johnny for no reason. His reason is that hes more active and transparent. Doesn't back this up. And these surely aren't Johnnys traits. Hes been pretty lurkish as far as I can tell. Basically just read through WBG filter. Count the fluff. Its mostly just discussing random shit that has nothing to do with scum-hunting, but at first glance it looks half useful. BH: + Show Spoiler + Done in Blazinghand style: If image doesn't work please right click and open in other tab it is important. ![[image loading]](http://postimage.org/image/cm209lf3h/) Hey I can try to discredit people in shitty paint drawings. I was wrong about ST eating my hat now. Oh shit, night time. Sleep through whole phase. Back to lurking! Other Thoughts @ET: I believe your claim, IMO closest thing to a "confirmed town" right now (50%) @Grackaroni,Katina - Stop fucking lurking @Gonzaw: I think your town right now, based on my new thoughts on Toad. Your activity is great, but the tone in your posts feel like LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I AM IMPORTANT. Stop doing that. It feels like your cutting off any discussion from anything other than your cases and are so active you drown things out. You don't let people form there own cases and opinions cause you question to death. All that being said. ##Vote: Toadesstern | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
On April 12 2012 03:58 Toadesstern wrote: The chance of that happening is 2/3 + X. That is best case in 66% of the times his check (if he were to be a DT, which is not true) and worst case a little more depending on how likely you consider it for mafia to frame me or if I am a miller. The important part here is that VE's check is wrong / doesn't say a thing about me in 66% of the times because of sanities ALREADY. If this game would have sane cops only I'd agree, lynch the red check no matter what, if he's a green lynch the DT. However this game does not have sane only therefore it's wrong Quoted from this post. I don't know if anyone has brought this up in the next couple of pages, but this is bullshit logic. If we believe that there is an equal chance of every flavor of DT being in the game, that would mean that 75% of the time, the DT is wrong. Why would the hosts include a role like that in the game? I'm not arguing that VE is definitely sane, but to say that there is a 2 out of 3 chance he is wrong is false. | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:27 Blazinghand wrote: OH HEY HE FINALLY SHOWS HIS FACE(S) Are you gonna actually contribute or just continue whining I'm gonna continue lurking today. Sorry gonzaw, I have nothing whatsoever. I'll be voting from the gut. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:27 Blazinghand wrote: OH HEY HE FINALLY SHOWS HIS FACE(S) Are you gonna actually contribute or just continue whining On April 12 2012 04:28 Blazinghand wrote: Surprised your scumbuddy is bussing you I see On April 12 2012 04:32 Blazinghand wrote: A) sucks to be you. deal with it B) I'm alarmed that S.T flipped blue. He played like shit. I pushed him D1 and N1 because he was playing like scum. Now I have other priorities. ...create more chaos and disrupt the thread, and serve no constructive purpose. It fuels other people to be aggressive to you while you are aggressive to them in a non-specific manner. It doesn't add anything to the discussion, nor generates any type of scumhunting whatsoever. You disappear since the middle of N1 mostly and don't reappear until now, and you do so to post some stuff about VE's claim (yet you don't comment on the previous things discussed about him), and you disrupt the thread with posts like these. Are you, wbg, Toad and VE scum? If at least 1 of you is town, I'll be very disappointed. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:27 Blazinghand wrote: OH HEY HE FINALLY SHOWS HIS FACE(S) Are you gonna actually contribute or just continue whining I was thinking the exact same about you | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:34 ghost_403 wrote: Quoted from this post. I don't know if anyone has brought this up in the next couple of pages, but this is bullshit logic. If we believe that there is an equal chance of every flavor of DT being in the game, that would mean that 75% of the time, the DT is wrong. Why would the hosts include a role like that in the game? I'm not arguing that VE is definitely sane, but to say that there is a 2 out of 3 chance he is wrong is false. I don't know if you're aware, but investigative blue roles are nerfed in this setup, what with stealthy, godfathers, millers, wandering townies, etc. The hosts don't want us leaning on DTs. There are definitely non-sane DTs in this setup. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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