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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:06 Risen wrote: List of people Risen wants killed/wants to lynch: VE, Jitsu, Gonzaw, johnnywup. I'm up to 4/6 nigh on confirmed scum in my mind. We only need 2 more! Katina is a pretty strong mafia read imo. Actually my #3 read after VE and gonzaw. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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FourFace
701 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:00 wherebugsgo wrote: I've already explained at least three different times why VE is scum and so far VE has completely ignored every single point I've made against him, simply choosing to reiterate over and over "but bugs Toad's case is terrible" when I never even voted him because of anything Toad specifically said. Toad's OMGUS made me realize I had missed something, but for the most part Toad's case was just him flipping out. Toad's OMGUS made you realize you had missed something. WHAT? That ... VE has completely ignored every single point I've made against him, simply choosing to reiterate over and over "but bugs Toad's case is terrible" when I never even voted him because of anything Toad specifically said. ...? WHY do you make that sound so dramatic? What are your points that he ignored? List them again please. Things are already in the thread ... WOW .. well guess what, we can't read the thread because it's full of gonzaw's and Toad's shit. So if you think what your're saying is so important and you got a list of stuff that you claim VE ignored, and you're portraying this as the core of your accusation .. you should bother listing them again for my sake. | ||
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Jitsu
United States929 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:04 wherebugsgo wrote: Also what the fuck am I to say to that? Lol there isn't anything to respond to, you're not calling me scum, you're just rehashing my play from the previous day. What BH just said is 100% correct; all that matters right now is getting a majority on VE (or Toad if you wish) and once that's sorted we can deal with other things. Trying to do other things right now is unproductive and allows scum to blend in without commenting on VE/Toad. Reading up currently, but I agree with this. In other words. Keep It Simple Stupid. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:50 FourFace wrote: Because DT is not that important to town with all the modifiers and shit. If he was mafia he would've waited until there's a majority on him or not .. idn. I really don't. But you can't be that sure either which is why i think it's suspicious that you claim to be so sure. If VE is DT we can figure out his sanity together, and if he gets killed.. he supplied us with sufficient info. We got enough time to deal with this DT claim which is what we want. On Night 2 he can tell us who he checks and I think our medics should protect him. He's basically our homeboy now. Yeah I'm defending my hombwoy .. you scum? And your homeboy have defended you all game. This is why I wrote: On April 12 2012 00:07 Tunkeg wrote: Why I think VE is scum: 1.Holding a low profile on day 1. Posting just enough to not be called a lurker, just too little to get any attention. He comments on the obvious stuff, and try to look active, but never really take a hard stance on anyone. “Well this 95 % of town on day 1, you can’t seriously think THIS is why he is scum” Well, no not alone, but together with the rest it makes sense. He makes some “cases” near the end of day 1. But don’t stick to his reads. Way to go if you are town… 2.Vote vote vote, BUT, with no reasoning behind it. You guys have mentioned it before, but this is such a big read that I must include it. He vote Risen for his case on ET, really a pisspoor reason for a vote. He then votes Jackal, for giggles. He then votes me, for no reason, and to concolidate he says (NOOO, he did it to get in on a bandwagon that was seemingly out of control), he makes his HB=scum, Toad=scum but I go for janaan post, switches to HB when it starts to get in motion and then back again. Especially his consolidate votes are just utterly rubbish. “But a lot of other players did this as well, why aren’t you calling them scum?” Well, most of them are dead and/or noobs, I expect more from experienced players! 3.ME SO ANGRY, ME TYPE IN CAPS. He is clearly pretending to be angry, just like he did in AC. He have responded to pressure the same way in this game as he did in AC. The caps typing was the final nail. 4.He have overall been superwierd in this game. Also I suck at writing cases, but I know I am right on VE though. Also when VE flip I know 100% the next target. Not been mentioned thus far, but won’t derail the thread with it. We need to stay focused and we need to lynch VE. We need to keep it simple, lynch the scummier player first (Read Ace’s journal from Death Factory 2!)! The next target would be you then FourFace. I think you two are in it together. There I said it (seems like a good time now that you are coming to his resque). But, first we need to consolidate on whether to lynch VE or not. No derails. First we decide on VE, then we can discuss the way ahead. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:12 FourFace wrote: Toad's OMGUS made you realize you had missed something. WHAT? That ... ...? WHY do you make that sound so dramatic? What are your points that he ignored? List them again please. Things are already in the thread ... WOW .. well guess what, we can't read the thread because it's full of gonzaw's and Toad's shit. So if you think what your're saying is so important and you got a list of stuff that you claim VE ignored, and you're portraying this as the core of your accusation .. you should bother listing them again for my sake. It just took me 10 seconds to find it. I'm not going to quote it and I doubt wbg is. Why does it take so long for you to find it? Did you not read it the first time? | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:07 johnnywup wrote: hey risen, my votes on VE. And why have you wanted to kill me all game long? Honestly? It was because of your preparation for jumping on the Risen lynch bandwagon day 1. Not sure there's anything you can do at this point to get off my scum list. If people keep jumping in front of you like VE, Jitsu, and gonzaw, though, you'll be alive at the end and that will prove you're town to me. Just scumhunt and actually post cases. I'm almost the only one in the game who wants you dead. I wouldn't worry too much if I was you. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:12 FourFace wrote: Toad's OMGUS made you realize you had missed something. WHAT? That ... ...? WHY do you make that sound so dramatic? What are your points that he ignored? List them again please. Things are already in the thread ... WOW .. well guess what, we can't read the thread because it's full of gonzaw's and Toad's shit. So if you think what your're saying is so important and you got a list of stuff that you claim VE ignored, and you're portraying this as the core of your accusation .. you should bother listing them again for my sake. lol, I'm sorry my dry statement of the facts sounded "so dramatic" to you. I guess I should probably consider changing my matter-of-fact tone to one that's more mocking of your vapidity, like this one. it's almost as if you're a smurf of Bill Murray. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
No, my accusations are not incoherent, based on people thinking you are suspicious as well. Plenty of people found you suspicious before in the thread (it may be hard to look at it though, the Toad vs VE discussion most likely buried those posts). It is "worthwhile" to respond to it, you not even caring about it makes me more suspicious of you. And please, can someone tell me how trying to create more discussions about other players is "derailing the thread"? Can't you see that the Toad vs VE issue occupies like 80% of this D2? There's no way anyone can ignore it, EVERYBODY's making it their #1 priority when posting, and most are making useless cases/posts like "VE is scum because he would have known he could be insane and not claim as town DT" or some shit, instead of dealing with important matters like VE's behaviour this game, etc. ET, where are you? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Why would you claim when the votes were split evenly on both sides? As large as my wagon had gotten before halfway through the day, I was afraid if I didn't claim now I would run the risk of the claim not mattering by getting lynched because my detractors are all not even reading. No one is responding to my case or saying why it's shit, everyone is just saying it's shit and sheeping Toad and Bugs. It's ridiculous and there's no fighting that...at least, not with the effort it would require. I tried it the right way. I made a case, and I pushed my case, and no one was even willing to read my case or refute my case. Toad is sidestepping my accusations and no one even cares. Why would you claim with over half the day to go? Because there are two possibilities: I'll get lynched or Toad will get lynched. If I get lynched, I'll flip DT and Toad may get lynched, he may not...my sanity is in question, and if I die there's always be that question. If Toad is lynched, he'll either flip town or scum, but my sanity will be certain and I'll have a baseline for future checks (if any are possible). Obviously scum can roleblock me, but I'm motherfucking VE. I don't need the power to roll them. Why would you try and push a Hassy train lynch, assuming he was scum potentially pulling attention to yourself in the night kill? Because by that point I was convinced of Hassy's guilt and I wanted to get him lynched. I've got "attention to myself in the night kill" in spades. I don't think Hassy is scum anymore, but that's my reasoning for pushing the Hassy train. Why would you claim, before you could guarentee your sanity? (coulda tried for toad lynch then if you were right you were most likely sane, you weren't done yet, it wasn't even close)I did man, I posted a two phase case on Toad which he barely responded to and which most everyone is ignoring. I've stated EXACTLY why I feel the way I feel about Toad, and none of it has to do with my check. AT all. Again, I'm exhausted and I can't fight everyone on my own. The claim reinforced my credibility, which might be the only thing that keeps me going at this point. Now I've seen that it in fact weakens my credibility. I don't know what I'm going to do now. I'm going to die, again, and the scums are going to roll town, again. I know my claim is suspicious. But I have reasoning for claiming the way I did. If town is too obtuse to accept it, that's fine. I was about to give up anyway.  | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:16 Tunkeg wrote: And your homeboy have defended you all game. This is why I wrote: The next target would be you then FourFace. I think you two are in it together. There I said it (seems like a good time now that you are coming to his resque). But, first we need to consolidate on whether to lynch VE or not. No derails. First we decide on VE, then we can discuss the way ahead. Hmm. I have no idea what to say to this, partly because you didn't mention why you would think that. I'm coming to his rescue now but what reasons did you have to believe I would be a good second target after a VE flips scum, you dramatic chipmunk you | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 11 2012 22:22 zelblade wrote: ##Vote: Toadesstern On April 11 2012 23:36 ghost_403 wrote: ##vote: Toadesstern On April 12 2012 01:17 Mementoss wrote: ##Vote: Toadesstern On April 12 2012 03:51 Jitsu wrote: ##Vote: Toadesstern These people need to be neutralized/shot/whatever you can do to stop their night action if possible. I'll be looking into them for building cases as well sometime today before VE is lynched. ((This is on top of building cases on the other people I hate)) | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:22 wherebugsgo wrote: lol, I'm sorry my dry statement of the facts sounded "so dramatic" to you. I guess I should probably consider changing my matter-of-fact tone to one that's more mocking of your vapidity, like this one. it's almost as if you're a smurf of Bill Murray. So what's that list of stuff that you have on VE that he ignored and made you cum in epiphany about him being scum again? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
i'm struggling to get up to date on this thread but i have a slight town read on him at page 28 so i'm curious about what is happening | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Being wishy washy itself is not a scum nor town trait. However, being wishy-washy in certain ways can make you look more town or scum. For example, if a player is wishy washy on another player and then that second player flips scum, it makes the first one look bad. If a player is simply wishy washy to begin with it says nothing about their alignment. If you find my change in stance on VE suspicious, then you have to actually demonstrate how it is suspicious before I even bother to consider your accusations seriously. I changed my stance on VE, as I have explained multiple times, because after the dayflip I reread the thread and saw that VE was saying things that, as town, he would not say. When I asked him why he thought Toad was scum, VE provided no reasons. That's the major reason I attacked VE. His claim simply cements him as scum, because a town VE would never claim d2 as DT with a red check, because he would stop and think about sanities and alignment masking first. At no point in this game has VE actually scumhunted either, as others have said, he has sheeped. By itself I did not find this scummy, because on day 1 VE had legitimate reasons to be looking for support before trying to lynch people. However, when it came to his vote on Toad d2, I found that incredibly suspicious because after the flip I would've thought he would have taken the time to actually look for scum. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:24 FourFace wrote: Hmm. I have no idea what to say to this, partly because you didn't mention why you would think that. I'm coming to his rescue now but what reasons did you have to believe I would be a good second target after a VE flips scum, you dramatic chipmunk you Because of all the times he have been defending you, telling people to back off on you. But lets leave this for another day, I have said that I am suspicious of you because of it. Lets instead focus on whether VE isto be lynched or not. Also this chipmunks sends his greatings to the scum team: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
a few gems from VE's most recent post: If Toad is lynched, he'll either flip town or scum, but my sanity will be certain and I'll have a baseline for future checks (if any are possible) Because blues aren't going to win this game - reading the thread and analyzing what the hell is going on is going to win. Obviously scum can roleblock me, but I'm motherfucking VE. I don't need the power to roll them. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
@Risen: Can you please take a step back and not FoS everybody that doesn't vote VE? If you think they are scum, then analyze them, reread their filters and find more incriminating stuff. Find connections between them if you think all are scum, etc. Don't just say "They are scum only because they didn't vote VE". Take a step back, stay cool, analyse the wagons and their votes and their past behaviour, and then calmly post what you really think about it after said analysis. You are helping spread the chaos and confusion. Everybody is pointing fingers at everybody, without stating any reasoning whatsoever and letting it get buried later. That's the worst thing possible that could happen to us. Every FoS needs to be founded on sound reasoning Every other FoS clogs up the thread and is useless. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 12 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote: hey wbg why are we lynching ve i'm struggling to get up to date on this thread but i have a slight town read on him at page 28 so i'm curious about what is happening he doesn't look like scum until later. Here's where I transition into calling him scum. First, I ask VE a simple question, page 57 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=57#1131 On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote: I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum. VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. VE gives me a shitty answer. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote: Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't...his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity. That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs. Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. I break it down: On April 11 2012 16:19 wherebugsgo wrote: johnnywup your vote is not formatted correctly in the voting thread. VE dies today, here's a quick rundown of why: Here's what I ask VE. Here's how he responds: That's not a reason for Toad being scum. That's not a reason either. In fact, it's fucking awful. Hold on a second here...wtf??!!? LOL also, this: Again not a reason, and using night actions to incriminate someone? Really? If anything is incriminating about the night actions it's that YOU didn't die. Also, you don't even explain how the night actions incriminate toad at all. This is just bullshit. LOL there wasn't a reason in there! You're more confident that Toad is scum because he did what anyone would do when a shitty case is presented against them? gg, you just fucked up huge. On April 12 2012 04:25 wherebugsgo wrote: Oh, forgot to mention: I never actually agreed with Toad's case or his reasoning. I thought VE was scum for independent reasons and simply told Toad that I thought he was correct. No doubt Toad's case is bad; the reason it's bad is because Toad wasn't thinking when he wrote it. It's the same reason his gonzaw "case" is bad. And, in fact, I would venture to say that Toad is completely and utterly wrong about gonzaw. On day 1 I was curious as to why VE was buddying me, but decided that, since I couldn't read him well at the time, I'd assume he was town and try to get a case on a scummy person going and see if he would follow. I knew that wouldn't help unless the guy actually flipped scum, but it was something. Even into the night I really didn't see any reason for VE to be scum, which is why I defended him against what midnightgladius was saying. When I went back and reread after those five players flipped (but not Jackal) I realized somewhere along the line I made an egregious error that probably made scum comfortable with leaving me alive. At the same time VE was alive too, which was somewhat perplexing. When I went back on VE's posts I noticed he never actually had reasons for calling people scum. So, I chose to test it out and ask him why he was suspicious of Toad. His response had no reason in it , and was a post no townie VE would ever make. Since then he's been overreacting to a purportedly weak case, which if I were presented I would simply ignore. As town if there's a weak case represented against you usually you just refute it simply and move on to actual scumhunting. VE has destroyed the thread in the meantime with his walls of text, making discussion nearly impossible. This is like the battle of the self-centered guys in VE and Toad; VE because he's rolled scum and wants desperately to live, and Toad because he's Toad. emphasis added in my self-explanation because people are lazy to read about the claim: VE claimed DT, red check on Toad, that he is "probably" sane (no reason to believe that) My response: On April 12 2012 04:11 wherebugsgo wrote: HAHAHAH I was thinking the exact same things as you :D Kill VE; no DT would claim D2 with a red check and claim he's "probably" sane because there's no way for any DT to know his own sanity before he gets 2-3 checks on FLIPPED players back. In other words if he were actually a DT the likelihood of him having an incorrect check on Toad is astronomical. If toad is actually green it could mean paranoia, framer, insanity, miller; four things a town DT would consider before claiming he is "probably" sane. I just finished reading the entire block of 10 or so pages but honestly VE's reactions to everything have made this really easy. | ||
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