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From my obersvations so far I'm going to post my reads:
VE: Has been dodgy when it comes to questions being asked by other players. He has been causing apathy for the town. His agenda is focused on causing chaos (especially with his DT claim) This has lead to the thread being thrown almost completely off track. Discussion has turned from him and Toad to the game setup up and arguing with each other about the validity of his claim and supposed DT check on Toad.
On April 12 2012 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
My check doesn't confirm anything until Toad flips. But MY suspicion on his is strengthened, and I can't help that. But I know it's true. Toad is scum and he and his ilk about to pull one of the biggest upsets in Team Liquid history.
johnnywup,Katina, Zealos, Blazinghand, Toadesstern, Jitsu
Fuck yeah, let's do this.
He tries to divert attention from himself onto the people on his list without any reason for half of us.
My read on VE is Mafia and should be killed.
Toad: I have been after him since day1. As I have said he is unfocused, not contributing anything new, and writing big walls of text. He is cluttering up the thread with his gigantic posts and everything is getting buried in them.
On April 12 2012 05:08 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 05:06 Risen wrote:
List of people Risen wants killed/wants to lynch: VE, Jitsu, Gonzaw, johnnywup. I'm up to 4/6 nigh on confirmed scum in my mind. We only need 2 more! Katina is a pretty strong mafia read imo. Actually my #3 read after VE and gonzaw.
He's accusing me of being mafia without any reason at all. Which is pretty pathetic. This is the same thing that VE has done recently. Toad has done a lot of finger pointing this game and hasn't been making "cases" if that's what you can call his posts until today when the votes started coming in.
Toad is on the top of my list for today's lynch.
johnnywup: I also am leaning towards Mafia with him. He posts have been short and not contributing much. He basically goes along with the crowd and tries to blend in.
On April 12 2012 02:54 johnnywup wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 23:37 ghost_403 wrote:
Also, holy crap has johnny been lurking. sorry i was asleep  ?
Wow what a shitstorm. One of toad or VE is scum almost for sure, possibly both (but less likely). I don't think we can afford a mislynch today without putting ourselves in an awful spot. Also katina looks super fucking scummy. And Toad is defending himself so much it looks scummy. Like, defending yourself is one thing but going so far? Focus more on cases and less on your own skin imo. I know I haven't given that many reads but I'm not as big of a "player" in this game. I don't have as "concrete" reads as you do, with handfulls of evidence. Anyways, I'm backing off VE for now as I have been given a shred of doubt in his guilt. At least until this shitstorm ends and a conclusion is (generally) reached. ##unvote VisceraEyes
He is quick to take his vote off of VE
Then this:
On April 12 2012 03:24 johnnywup wrote:
Yeah makes no sense as DT to claim here. didn't think of that.
##vote: VisceraEyes
He puts his vote back on not even an hour later when johnny started bringing a lot of attention to himself. He hasn't pushed anyone this whole game and posts the minimun he can get away with. He is scummy to me.
Those three are on my Scum list and should be looked at hard by the town. Go through their filter for yourself. I will be looking at others and posting if I have anymore reads.
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On April 12 2012 05:32 gonzaw wrote:
@VE: I don't want to ask you again, tell me what you think about wbg and BH and their latest activity
@Risen: Can you please take a step back and not FoS everybody that doesn't vote VE? If you think they are scum, then analyze them, reread their filters and find more incriminating stuff. Find connections between them if you think all are scum, etc.
Don't just say "They are scum only because they didn't vote VE". Take a step back, stay cool, analyse the wagons and their votes and their past behaviour, and then calmly post what you really think about it after said analysis.
You are helping spread the chaos and confusion. Everybody is pointing fingers at everybody, without stating any reasoning whatsoever and letting it get buried later.
That's the worst thing possible that could happen to us.
Every FoS needs to be founded on sound reasoning
Every other FoS clogs up the thread and is useless.
NO, we certantly don't need a billion cases right now. That will derail, and the scumteam would love a good derail. I think everyone, and I mean EVERYONE need to take a stance on VE, if we as a town come to the conclusion he is scum, we lynch. If a clear majority says he is town, and EVERYONE have made their view public then we can move on. No matter what happends to VE, people need to have a clear opinion on him. Because that we can build on later!
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EBWOP:
Okay I'm going to uni now, hopefully things get better when I come back
@Wbg: I'm not just "rehashing" your play.
I said you didn't try to participate in the discussions.
I said most of your posts were just you giving "advice" to people, but not actually commenting your thoughts on said people. That seemed to me that you tried to appear you were contributing while you didn't, and you wanted to appear active while doing nothing worthwhile.
If you were town I would have expected you to take a more active spot in town and try to improve town atmosphere, instead you add fuel to the fire by voting VE and "sheeping" Toad's reasoning, again ignoring other aspects of the game (you don't comment about other players, or you don't comment on what other players think of you, etc), and then you disappear.
That is suspicious to me, and it's not just "rehashing" your play.
Again, check other people's suspicions of you to see how it isn't. Mementos FoSed you, and some other people did as well but I don't remember and don't have the time to go and check it out.
Goodbye for now people!
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 12 2012 05:33 Katina wrote:From my obersvations so far I'm going to post my reads: VE: Has been dodgy when it comes to questions being asked by other players. He has been causing apathy for the town. His agenda is focused on causing chaos (especially with his DT claim) This has lead to the thread being thrown almost completely off track. Discussion has turned from him and Toad to the game setup up and arguing with each other about the validity of his claim and supposed DT check on Toad. Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
My check doesn't confirm anything until Toad flips. But MY suspicion on his is strengthened, and I can't help that. But I know it's true. Toad is scum and he and his ilk about to pull one of the biggest upsets in Team Liquid history.
johnnywup,Katina, Zealos, Blazinghand, Toadesstern, Jitsu
Fuck yeah, let's do this. He tries to divert attention from himself onto the people on his list without any reason for half of us. My read on VE is Mafia and should be killed. Toad: I have been after him since day1. As I have said he is unfocused, not contributing anything new, and writing big walls of text. He is cluttering up the thread with his gigantic posts and everything is getting buried in them. Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 05:08 Toadesstern wrote:On April 12 2012 05:06 Risen wrote:
List of people Risen wants killed/wants to lynch: VE, Jitsu, Gonzaw, johnnywup. I'm up to 4/6 nigh on confirmed scum in my mind. We only need 2 more! Katina is a pretty strong mafia read imo. Actually my #3 read after VE and gonzaw. He's accusing me of being mafia without any reason at all. Which is pretty pathetic. This is the same thing that VE has done recently. Toad has done a lot of finger pointing this game and hasn't been making "cases" if that's what you can call his posts until today when the votes started coming in. Toad is on the top of my list for today's lynch. johnnywup: I also am leaning towards Mafia with him. He posts have been short and not contributing much. He basically goes along with the crowd and tries to blend in. Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:54 johnnywup wrote:On April 11 2012 23:37 ghost_403 wrote:
Also, holy crap has johnny been lurking. sorry i was asleep ?
Wow what a shitstorm. One of toad or VE is scum almost for sure, possibly both (but less likely). I don't think we can afford a mislynch today without putting ourselves in an awful spot. Also katina looks super fucking scummy. And Toad is defending himself so much it looks scummy. Like, defending yourself is one thing but going so far? Focus more on cases and less on your own skin imo. I know I haven't given that many reads but I'm not as big of a "player" in this game. I don't have as "concrete" reads as you do, with handfulls of evidence. Anyways, I'm backing off VE for now as I have been given a shred of doubt in his guilt. At least until this shitstorm ends and a conclusion is (generally) reached. ##unvote VisceraEyes He is quick to take his vote off of VE Then this: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:24 johnnywup wrote:
Yeah makes no sense as DT to claim here. didn't think of that.
##vote: VisceraEyes He puts his vote back on not even an hour later when johnny started bringing a lot of attention to himself. He hasn't pushed anyone this whole game and posts the minimun he can get away with. He is scummy to me. Those three are on my Scum list and should be looked at hard by the town. Go through their filter for yourself. I will be looking at others and posting if I have anymore reads.
Johnnywup d3 lynch. Make it happen.
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VE: Answer this please - Why did you check Toad. Why not check WBG or Jackal. Those two are very likely to be lynched day one if they are town, and would have given you more insight on your sanity. Also if they hadn't been lynched you would have had them checked, and as a town I would say checking the big guns first is pretty smart, because if they are scum you need to kill them quick as hell! So explain this to me, pretty please...
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VE is an asshole as town gonzaw and a manpulative guy who's brownnosing other vets if mafia.
If wbg tried to be really nice and helpful I'd want to lynch him lol
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@Katina, your filter hasn't been very impressive either. In my post where I re-voted I even said that I didn't think of the reasons behind claiming DT, which a town DT claiming doesn't make sense. I thought that through and came to the decision that my original vote on VE was good. Read the fucking post before you make a case on it.
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EBWOP2:
@Tunkeg: I never said there needs to be more cases and more lynch candidates.
I said that if you are ever going to FoS someone, you need to post the reasoning behind it, if not it will create even more chaos.
Risen is just FoSing everybody that votes Toad without hesitation nor reasoning. That's bad, it makes those that he FoSed not take him seriously and possibly get aggressive against him and start another shitstorm.
We don't need that. If he every FoSes anyone, he needs to read filters, and specifically state why, not just "They didn't vote VE".
Same with other people.
Of course people need to make a stance on VE vs Toad, but most people here are throwing wild FoSes around without thinking twice.
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On April 12 2012 05:40 Toadesstern wrote:
WBG is an asshole as town gonzaw and a manpulative guy who's brownnosing other vets if mafia.
If wbg tried to be really nice and helpful I'd want to lynch him lol
EBWOP, was obviously talking about wbg.
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Cherry-pick moar Toad. You're reaching. It's delicious.
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On April 12 2012 05:33 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote:
hey wbg why are we lynching ve
i'm struggling to get up to date on this thread but i have a slight town read on him at page 28 so i'm curious about what is happening he doesn't look like scum until later. Here's where I transition into calling him scum. First, I ask VE a simple question, page 57 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=57#1131Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum.
VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. VE gives me a shitty answer. Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't...his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity.
That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs.
Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. I break it down: Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 16:19 wherebugsgo wrote:johnnywup your vote is not formatted correctly in the voting thread. VE dies today, here's a quick rundown of why: On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum.
VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. Here's what I ask VE. Here's how he responds: On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't... That's not a reason for Toad being scum. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. That's not a reason either. In fact, it's fucking awful. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, Hold on a second here...wtf??!!? On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
his flip will give me information about you On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, LOL also, this: On April 10 2012 07:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
Only scum care more about which lynch will "give more info" rather than actually trying to lynch the guy...oh I dunno...that is actually more likely to be scum. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity.
Again not a reason, and using night actions to incriminate someone? Really? If anything is incriminating about the night actions it's that YOU didn't die. Also, you don't even explain how the night actions incriminate toad at all. This is just bullshit. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs. LOL there wasn't a reason in there! On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. You're more confident that Toad is scum because he did what anyone would do when a shitty case is presented against them? gg, you just fucked up huge. Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:25 wherebugsgo wrote:
Oh, forgot to mention:
I never actually agreed with Toad's case or his reasoning. I thought VE was scum for independent reasons and simply told Toad that I thought he was correct. No doubt Toad's case is bad; the reason it's bad is because Toad wasn't thinking when he wrote it. It's the same reason his gonzaw "case" is bad. And, in fact, I would venture to say that Toad is completely and utterly wrong about gonzaw.
On day 1 I was curious as to why VE was buddying me, but decided that, since I couldn't read him well at the time, I'd assume he was town and try to get a case on a scummy person going and see if he would follow. I knew that wouldn't help unless the guy actually flipped scum, but it was something. Even into the night I really didn't see any reason for VE to be scum, which is why I defended him against what midnightgladius was saying. When I went back and reread after those five players flipped (but not Jackal) I realized somewhere along the line I made an egregious error that probably made scum comfortable with leaving me alive. At the same time VE was alive too, which was somewhat perplexing.
When I went back on VE's posts I noticed he never actually had reasons for calling people scum. So, I chose to test it out and ask him why he was suspicious of Toad. His response had no reason in it , and was a post no townie VE would ever make. Since then he's been overreacting to a purportedly weak case, which if I were presented I would simply ignore.
As town if there's a weak case represented against you usually you just refute it simply and move on to actual scumhunting. VE has destroyed the thread in the meantime with his walls of text, making discussion nearly impossible. This is like the battle of the self-centered guys in VE and Toad; VE because he's rolled scum and wants desperately to live, and Toad because he's Toad. emphasis added in my self-explanation because people are lazy to read about the claim: VE claimed DT, red check on Toad, that he is "probably" sane (no reason to believe that) My response: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 11 2012 23:40 Tunkeg wrote:Here is the scumteam and how they play the game now: Viscera "Oh I am fucked anyways time to make some accusations on my scummate BH" Eyes Adam "I will stab VE in the back and accuse BH for town cred" 4167 Ka " I love VE so much, don't kill him" tina Blazing "I don't give a fuck about what you geezers are doing" Hand. I am totally in Toads corner on this one. I am as certain as I have ever been i na mafia game --> VE is scum. Toad is bad at finding scum, I am bad at finding scum, but when we team up we are a beast. In Arkham City we hit scum everyday together. You can say we are T and T = TNT. + Show Spoiler +My post on why VE is scum comming up! HAHAHAH I was thinking the exact same things as you :D Kill VE; no DT would claim D2 with a red check and claim he's "probably" sane because there's no way for any DT to know his own sanity before he gets 2-3 checks on FLIPPED players back. In other words if he were actually a DT the likelihood of him having an incorrect check on Toad is astronomical. If toad is actually green it could mean paranoia, framer, insanity, miller; four things a town DT would consider before claiming he is "probably" sane. I just finished reading the entire block of 10 or so pages but honestly VE's reactions to everything have made this really easy.
You two should kiss and make up. By the time you asked VE about Toad he already made the check so what is he supposed to say to you .. that he made the check so he that's why he thinks Toad is suspicious?
Then he thought to himself, fuck it I'll claim and make wbg understand why I think Toad is scum to answer his question and get him on my side.
But wbg isn't town, is he.. he understood what VE was doing, he knew no one else would understand so he can make VE look like scum by playing ignorant. VE did all this for you and now you won't back off of lynching him?
VE, Am I crazy?
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On April 12 2012 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why would you claim after we lost 3 blues last night? Because blues aren't going to win this game - reading the thread and analyzing what the hell is going on is going to win. I claimed because in spite of being a DT, I intend to roll scum by analyzing what's happened here and figuring out who's scum by scumhunting.
The irony in this is that he's voting Toad almost solely because he "got" a red check on him.
If VE were actually using analysis he'd realize that a red check on anyone at this point isn't worth anything at all. Not to mention, if VE actually cared about analysis, he'd have had reasons to vote Toad other than having a red check at the time I asked him.
No where in his massive walls of texts is there a singular reason to call Toad scum. Most of the things he says about Toad can easily be explained from the perspective of "Toad is town and he always does this"
On April 12 2012 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why would you claim when the votes were split evenly on both sides? As large as my wagon had gotten before halfway through the day, I was afraid if I didn't claim now I would run the risk of the claim not mattering by getting lynched because my detractors are all not even reading. No one is responding to my case or saying why it's shit, everyone is just saying it's shit and sheeping Toad and Bugs. It's ridiculous and there's no fighting that...at least, not with the effort it would require. I tried it the right way. I made a case, and I pushed my case, and no one was even willing to read my case or refute my case. Toad is sidestepping my accusations and no one even cares.
That's because there is no case! When I went to sleep you had no more reason to call Toad scum than "I think he's scum because you don't, bugs"
On April 12 2012 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why would you claim with over half the day to go? Because there are two possibilities: I'll get lynched or Toad will get lynched. If I get lynched, I'll flip DT and Toad may get lynched, he may not...my sanity is in question, and if I die there's always be that question. If Toad is lynched, he'll either flip town or scum, but my sanity will be certain and I'll have a baseline for future checks (if any are possible). Obviously scum can roleblock me, but I'm motherfucking VE. I don't need the power to roll them.
If you were actually a DT you'd realize that you can't determine your sanity with one flip, and you would have already considered the threat of a roleblock (and thus would not have claimed because it would have ruined your chances to determine your sanity)
Imagine VE is actually a DT. Toad is red. Does him flipping red determine VE's sanity? No, because VE could be paranoid, or he even could be insane with a framer on Toad.
Imagine again VE is actually a DT and Toad is green. Does him flipping green determine VE's sanity? No, because Toad flipping green means VE could be either paranoid OR insane. He could even be sane with a framer on Toad.
This part is bullshit to anyone who actually thinks about it for more than 3 seconds.
On April 12 2012 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why would you try and push a Hassy train lynch, assuming he was scum potentially pulling attention to yourself in the night kill? Because by that point I was convinced of Hassy's guilt and I wanted to get him lynched. I've got "attention to myself in the night kill" in spades. I don't think Hassy is scum anymore, but that's my reasoning for pushing the Hassy train.
This is the only reasonable thing VE says in the entire post.
On April 12 2012 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why would you claim, before you could guarentee your sanity? (coulda tried for toad lynch then if you were right you were most likely sane, you weren't done yet, it wasn't even close)I did man, I posted a two phase case on Toad which he barely responded to and which most everyone is ignoring. I've stated EXACTLY why I feel the way I feel about Toad, and none of it has to do with my check. AT all. Again, I'm exhausted and I can't fight everyone on my own. The claim reinforced my credibility, which might be the only thing that keeps me going at this point. Now I've seen that it in fact weakens my credibility. I don't know what I'm going to do now. I'm going to die, again, and the scums are going to roll town, again.
The two phase case came AFTER I pressured VE and AFTER it was already clear today would come down to Toad/VE. The two-phase case is total bull and it was completely reactionary to the fact that I caught onto VE not having a case on Toad to begin with.
It's just endless piles of fluff that was bsed in order to "have" a case. The claim reinforces the credibility of the case to stupid people who don't think, because in this setup a d2 DT claim is absolutely worthless.
On April 12 2012 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote:I know my claim is suspicious. But I have reasoning for claiming the way I did. If town is too obtuse to accept it, that's fine. I was about to give up anyway. 
And all the potential wins for a DT claim on d2 point to scum, not to town. In order to believe a D2 DT claim you have to not think about the actual ramifications of it, which means only stupid sheeping townies will believe it (just by virtue of not wanting to kill a blue) it's not the same as in other games where DTs are guaranteed to be sane because in this game, DTs are almost worthless.
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On April 12 2012 05:40 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP2:
@Tunkeg: I never said there needs to be more cases and more lynch candidates.
I said that if you are ever going to FoS someone, you need to post the reasoning behind it, if not it will create even more chaos.
Risen is just FoSing everybody that votes Toad without hesitation nor reasoning. That's bad, it makes those that he FoSed not take him seriously and possibly get aggressive against him and start another shitstorm.
We don't need that. If he every FoSes anyone, he needs to read filters, and specifically state why, not just "They didn't vote VE".
Same with other people.
Of course people need to make a stance on VE vs Toad, but most people here are throwing wild FoSes around without thinking twice.
Only scum wouldn't vote for VE after that DT claim and the subsequent postings explaining why he's clearly scum. That's all the reasoning anyone needs. Pretty simple in my mind, why isn't it that simple for you?
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On April 12 2012 05:36 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP:
Okay I'm going to uni now, hopefully things get better when I come back
@Wbg: I'm not just "rehashing" your play.
I said you didn't try to participate in the discussions.
I said most of your posts were just you giving "advice" to people, but not actually commenting your thoughts on said people. That seemed to me that you tried to appear you were contributing while you didn't, and you wanted to appear active while doing nothing worthwhile.
If you were town I would have expected you to take a more active spot in town and try to improve town atmosphere, instead you add fuel to the fire by voting VE and "sheeping" Toad's reasoning, again ignoring other aspects of the game (you don't comment about other players, or you don't comment on what other players think of you, etc), and then you disappear.
That is suspicious to me, and it's not just "rehashing" your play.
Again, check other people's suspicions of you to see how it isn't. Mementos FoSed you, and some other people did as well but I don't remember and don't have the time to go and check it out.
Goodbye for now people!
I even explained day 1 why I wasn't as present as I normally am day 1. I requested to be a replacement and then I was put into the game immediately. I intended as a replacement to enter the game right about now (as opposed to immediately)
In addition, I've found that I perform better in obs QTs than I do in actual games, which I attributed to me simply being overly involved in town affairs and tainting everything I've touched. I talked to a few players outside the game and I'm trying to improve it. That's obviously completely irrelevant to this game and that's why I haven't bothered answering, because regardless of my answer it's not indicative of my alignment. It's a waste of time.
I never sheeped Toad's reasoning, I even straight up said Toad had a bad case. Having a bad case doesn't mean he's wrong, though. People can have terrible reasoning and still be correct about someone being scum.
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On April 12 2012 05:40 Tunkeg wrote:
VE: Answer this please - Why did you check Toad. Why not check WBG or Jackal. Those two are very likely to be lynched day one if they are town, and would have given you more insight on your sanity. Also if they hadn't been lynched you would have had them checked, and as a town I would say checking the big guns first is pretty smart, because if they are scum you need to kill them quick as hell! So explain this to me, pretty please...
VE - Answer me please! Also show me your breadcrumb on the Toad check. And it have to be more clever than I checked Toad, he returned guily I push him right after lynch...
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On April 12 2012 05:43 FourFace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 05:33 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote:
hey wbg why are we lynching ve
i'm struggling to get up to date on this thread but i have a slight town read on him at page 28 so i'm curious about what is happening he doesn't look like scum until later. Here's where I transition into calling him scum. First, I ask VE a simple question, page 57 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=57#1131On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum.
VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. VE gives me a shitty answer. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't...his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity.
That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs.
Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. I break it down: On April 11 2012 16:19 wherebugsgo wrote:johnnywup your vote is not formatted correctly in the voting thread. VE dies today, here's a quick rundown of why: On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum.
VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. Here's what I ask VE. Here's how he responds: On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't... That's not a reason for Toad being scum. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. That's not a reason either. In fact, it's fucking awful. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, Hold on a second here...wtf??!!? On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
his flip will give me information about you On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, LOL also, this: On April 10 2012 07:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
Only scum care more about which lynch will "give more info" rather than actually trying to lynch the guy...oh I dunno...that is actually more likely to be scum. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity.
Again not a reason, and using night actions to incriminate someone? Really? If anything is incriminating about the night actions it's that YOU didn't die. Also, you don't even explain how the night actions incriminate toad at all. This is just bullshit. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs. LOL there wasn't a reason in there! On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. You're more confident that Toad is scum because he did what anyone would do when a shitty case is presented against them? gg, you just fucked up huge. On April 12 2012 04:25 wherebugsgo wrote:
Oh, forgot to mention:
I never actually agreed with Toad's case or his reasoning. I thought VE was scum for independent reasons and simply told Toad that I thought he was correct. No doubt Toad's case is bad; the reason it's bad is because Toad wasn't thinking when he wrote it. It's the same reason his gonzaw "case" is bad. And, in fact, I would venture to say that Toad is completely and utterly wrong about gonzaw.
On day 1 I was curious as to why VE was buddying me, but decided that, since I couldn't read him well at the time, I'd assume he was town and try to get a case on a scummy person going and see if he would follow. I knew that wouldn't help unless the guy actually flipped scum, but it was something. Even into the night I really didn't see any reason for VE to be scum, which is why I defended him against what midnightgladius was saying. When I went back and reread after those five players flipped (but not Jackal) I realized somewhere along the line I made an egregious error that probably made scum comfortable with leaving me alive. At the same time VE was alive too, which was somewhat perplexing.
When I went back on VE's posts I noticed he never actually had reasons for calling people scum. So, I chose to test it out and ask him why he was suspicious of Toad. His response had no reason in it , and was a post no townie VE would ever make. Since then he's been overreacting to a purportedly weak case, which if I were presented I would simply ignore.
As town if there's a weak case represented against you usually you just refute it simply and move on to actual scumhunting. VE has destroyed the thread in the meantime with his walls of text, making discussion nearly impossible. This is like the battle of the self-centered guys in VE and Toad; VE because he's rolled scum and wants desperately to live, and Toad because he's Toad. emphasis added in my self-explanation because people are lazy to read about the claim: VE claimed DT, red check on Toad, that he is "probably" sane (no reason to believe that) My response: On April 12 2012 04:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 11 2012 23:40 Tunkeg wrote:Here is the scumteam and how they play the game now: Viscera "Oh I am fucked anyways time to make some accusations on my scummate BH" Eyes Adam "I will stab VE in the back and accuse BH for town cred" 4167 Ka " I love VE so much, don't kill him" tina Blazing "I don't give a fuck about what you geezers are doing" Hand. I am totally in Toads corner on this one. I am as certain as I have ever been i na mafia game --> VE is scum. Toad is bad at finding scum, I am bad at finding scum, but when we team up we are a beast. In Arkham City we hit scum everyday together. You can say we are T and T = TNT. + Show Spoiler +My post on why VE is scum comming up! HAHAHAH I was thinking the exact same things as you :D Kill VE; no DT would claim D2 with a red check and claim he's "probably" sane because there's no way for any DT to know his own sanity before he gets 2-3 checks on FLIPPED players back. In other words if he were actually a DT the likelihood of him having an incorrect check on Toad is astronomical. If toad is actually green it could mean paranoia, framer, insanity, miller; four things a town DT would consider before claiming he is "probably" sane. I just finished reading the entire block of 10 or so pages but honestly VE's reactions to everything have made this really easy. You two should kiss and make up. By the time you asked VE about Toad he already made the check so what is he supposed to say to you .. that he made the check so he that's why he thinks Toad is suspicious? Then he thought to himself, fuck it I'll claim and make wbg understand why I think Toad is scum to answer his question and get him on my side. But wbg isn't town, is he.. he understood what VE was doing, he knew no one else would understand so he can make VE look like scum by playing ignorant. VE did all this for you and now you won't back off of lynching him? VE, Am I crazy?
This is why I don't bother replying to your posts: you're completely dense and you clearly don't read a word of what I write.
What is it that you don't understand about DT sanities this game? A red check on the first night means absolutely nothing even if you ignore the possibilities of framers and millers.
Even if I was scum how could I understand what VE was doing before he even claimed?
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On April 12 2012 05:49 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 05:43 FourFace wrote:On April 12 2012 05:33 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote:
hey wbg why are we lynching ve
i'm struggling to get up to date on this thread but i have a slight town read on him at page 28 so i'm curious about what is happening he doesn't look like scum until later. Here's where I transition into calling him scum. First, I ask VE a simple question, page 57 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=57#1131On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum.
VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. VE gives me a shitty answer. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't...his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity.
That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs.
Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. I break it down: On April 11 2012 16:19 wherebugsgo wrote:johnnywup your vote is not formatted correctly in the voting thread. VE dies today, here's a quick rundown of why: On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum.
VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. Here's what I ask VE. Here's how he responds: On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't... That's not a reason for Toad being scum. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. That's not a reason either. In fact, it's fucking awful. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, Hold on a second here...wtf??!!? On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
his flip will give me information about you On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, LOL also, this: On April 10 2012 07:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
Only scum care more about which lynch will "give more info" rather than actually trying to lynch the guy...oh I dunno...that is actually more likely to be scum. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity.
Again not a reason, and using night actions to incriminate someone? Really? If anything is incriminating about the night actions it's that YOU didn't die. Also, you don't even explain how the night actions incriminate toad at all. This is just bullshit. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs. LOL there wasn't a reason in there! On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. You're more confident that Toad is scum because he did what anyone would do when a shitty case is presented against them? gg, you just fucked up huge. On April 12 2012 04:25 wherebugsgo wrote:
Oh, forgot to mention:
I never actually agreed with Toad's case or his reasoning. I thought VE was scum for independent reasons and simply told Toad that I thought he was correct. No doubt Toad's case is bad; the reason it's bad is because Toad wasn't thinking when he wrote it. It's the same reason his gonzaw "case" is bad. And, in fact, I would venture to say that Toad is completely and utterly wrong about gonzaw.
On day 1 I was curious as to why VE was buddying me, but decided that, since I couldn't read him well at the time, I'd assume he was town and try to get a case on a scummy person going and see if he would follow. I knew that wouldn't help unless the guy actually flipped scum, but it was something. Even into the night I really didn't see any reason for VE to be scum, which is why I defended him against what midnightgladius was saying. When I went back and reread after those five players flipped (but not Jackal) I realized somewhere along the line I made an egregious error that probably made scum comfortable with leaving me alive. At the same time VE was alive too, which was somewhat perplexing.
When I went back on VE's posts I noticed he never actually had reasons for calling people scum. So, I chose to test it out and ask him why he was suspicious of Toad. His response had no reason in it , and was a post no townie VE would ever make. Since then he's been overreacting to a purportedly weak case, which if I were presented I would simply ignore.
As town if there's a weak case represented against you usually you just refute it simply and move on to actual scumhunting. VE has destroyed the thread in the meantime with his walls of text, making discussion nearly impossible. This is like the battle of the self-centered guys in VE and Toad; VE because he's rolled scum and wants desperately to live, and Toad because he's Toad. emphasis added in my self-explanation because people are lazy to read about the claim: VE claimed DT, red check on Toad, that he is "probably" sane (no reason to believe that) My response: On April 12 2012 04:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 11 2012 23:40 Tunkeg wrote:Here is the scumteam and how they play the game now: Viscera "Oh I am fucked anyways time to make some accusations on my scummate BH" Eyes Adam "I will stab VE in the back and accuse BH for town cred" 4167 Ka " I love VE so much, don't kill him" tina Blazing "I don't give a fuck about what you geezers are doing" Hand. I am totally in Toads corner on this one. I am as certain as I have ever been i na mafia game --> VE is scum. Toad is bad at finding scum, I am bad at finding scum, but when we team up we are a beast. In Arkham City we hit scum everyday together. You can say we are T and T = TNT. + Show Spoiler +My post on why VE is scum comming up! HAHAHAH I was thinking the exact same things as you :D Kill VE; no DT would claim D2 with a red check and claim he's "probably" sane because there's no way for any DT to know his own sanity before he gets 2-3 checks on FLIPPED players back. In other words if he were actually a DT the likelihood of him having an incorrect check on Toad is astronomical. If toad is actually green it could mean paranoia, framer, insanity, miller; four things a town DT would consider before claiming he is "probably" sane. I just finished reading the entire block of 10 or so pages but honestly VE's reactions to everything have made this really easy. You two should kiss and make up. By the time you asked VE about Toad he already made the check so what is he supposed to say to you .. that he made the check so he that's why he thinks Toad is suspicious? Then he thought to himself, fuck it I'll claim and make wbg understand why I think Toad is scum to answer his question and get him on my side. But wbg isn't town, is he.. he understood what VE was doing, he knew no one else would understand so he can make VE look like scum by playing ignorant. VE did all this for you and now you won't back off of lynching him? VE, Am I crazy? This is why I don't bother replying to your posts: you're completely dense and you clearly don't read a word of what I write. What is it that you don't understand about DT sanities this game? A red check on the first night means absolutely nothing even if you ignore the possibilities of framers and millers.Even if I was scum how could I understand what VE was doing before he even claimed?
I think you're scum. Yeeeahaw. I'm beginning to want to read the thread again.
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EBWOP: You couldn't possibly have understood. But you should understand now, or a couple of hours ago. You still don't understand? I doubt it. You're more likely to be scum
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On April 12 2012 05:50 FourFace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 05:49 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 05:43 FourFace wrote:On April 12 2012 05:33 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote:
hey wbg why are we lynching ve
i'm struggling to get up to date on this thread but i have a slight town read on him at page 28 so i'm curious about what is happening he doesn't look like scum until later. Here's where I transition into calling him scum. First, I ask VE a simple question, page 57 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=57#1131On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum.
VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. VE gives me a shitty answer. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't...his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity.
That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs.
Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. I break it down: On April 11 2012 16:19 wherebugsgo wrote:johnnywup your vote is not formatted correctly in the voting thread. VE dies today, here's a quick rundown of why: On April 11 2012 15:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually think you're right, Toad. VE might very well be scum.
VE is there a particular reason you're going after Toad and not...iunno, Hassy, or ghost, or anyone else who would fit the scum bill? I don't see why Toad looks like scum to you at all. Here's what I ask VE. Here's how he responds: On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't... That's not a reason for Toad being scum. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. That's not a reason either. In fact, it's fucking awful. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, Hold on a second here...wtf??!!? On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
his flip will give me information about you On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, LOL also, this: On April 10 2012 07:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
Only scum care more about which lynch will "give more info" rather than actually trying to lynch the guy...oh I dunno...that is actually more likely to be scum. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity.
Again not a reason, and using night actions to incriminate someone? Really? If anything is incriminating about the night actions it's that YOU didn't die. Also, you don't even explain how the night actions incriminate toad at all. This is just bullshit. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs. LOL there wasn't a reason in there! On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. You're more confident that Toad is scum because he did what anyone would do when a shitty case is presented against them? gg, you just fucked up huge. On April 12 2012 04:25 wherebugsgo wrote:
Oh, forgot to mention:
I never actually agreed with Toad's case or his reasoning. I thought VE was scum for independent reasons and simply told Toad that I thought he was correct. No doubt Toad's case is bad; the reason it's bad is because Toad wasn't thinking when he wrote it. It's the same reason his gonzaw "case" is bad. And, in fact, I would venture to say that Toad is completely and utterly wrong about gonzaw.
On day 1 I was curious as to why VE was buddying me, but decided that, since I couldn't read him well at the time, I'd assume he was town and try to get a case on a scummy person going and see if he would follow. I knew that wouldn't help unless the guy actually flipped scum, but it was something. Even into the night I really didn't see any reason for VE to be scum, which is why I defended him against what midnightgladius was saying. When I went back and reread after those five players flipped (but not Jackal) I realized somewhere along the line I made an egregious error that probably made scum comfortable with leaving me alive. At the same time VE was alive too, which was somewhat perplexing.
When I went back on VE's posts I noticed he never actually had reasons for calling people scum. So, I chose to test it out and ask him why he was suspicious of Toad. His response had no reason in it , and was a post no townie VE would ever make. Since then he's been overreacting to a purportedly weak case, which if I were presented I would simply ignore.
As town if there's a weak case represented against you usually you just refute it simply and move on to actual scumhunting. VE has destroyed the thread in the meantime with his walls of text, making discussion nearly impossible. This is like the battle of the self-centered guys in VE and Toad; VE because he's rolled scum and wants desperately to live, and Toad because he's Toad. emphasis added in my self-explanation because people are lazy to read about the claim: VE claimed DT, red check on Toad, that he is "probably" sane (no reason to believe that) My response: On April 12 2012 04:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 11 2012 23:40 Tunkeg wrote:Here is the scumteam and how they play the game now: Viscera "Oh I am fucked anyways time to make some accusations on my scummate BH" Eyes Adam "I will stab VE in the back and accuse BH for town cred" 4167 Ka " I love VE so much, don't kill him" tina Blazing "I don't give a fuck about what you geezers are doing" Hand. I am totally in Toads corner on this one. I am as certain as I have ever been i na mafia game --> VE is scum. Toad is bad at finding scum, I am bad at finding scum, but when we team up we are a beast. In Arkham City we hit scum everyday together. You can say we are T and T = TNT. + Show Spoiler +My post on why VE is scum comming up! HAHAHAH I was thinking the exact same things as you :D Kill VE; no DT would claim D2 with a red check and claim he's "probably" sane because there's no way for any DT to know his own sanity before he gets 2-3 checks on FLIPPED players back. In other words if he were actually a DT the likelihood of him having an incorrect check on Toad is astronomical. If toad is actually green it could mean paranoia, framer, insanity, miller; four things a town DT would consider before claiming he is "probably" sane. I just finished reading the entire block of 10 or so pages but honestly VE's reactions to everything have made this really easy. You two should kiss and make up. By the time you asked VE about Toad he already made the check so what is he supposed to say to you .. that he made the check so he that's why he thinks Toad is suspicious? Then he thought to himself, fuck it I'll claim and make wbg understand why I think Toad is scum to answer his question and get him on my side. But wbg isn't town, is he.. he understood what VE was doing, he knew no one else would understand so he can make VE look like scum by playing ignorant. VE did all this for you and now you won't back off of lynching him? VE, Am I crazy? This is why I don't bother replying to your posts: you're completely dense and you clearly don't read a word of what I write. What is it that you don't understand about DT sanities this game? A red check on the first night means absolutely nothing even if you ignore the possibilities of framers and millers.Even if I was scum how could I understand what VE was doing before he even claimed? I think you're scum. Yeeeahaw. I'm beginning to want to read the thread again.
you think so either because you lack basic reading comprehension or because you are scum. Good for you.
Now I will be ignoring you for the rest of the game.
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Wait a minute.. I know this feeling. It got me to believe sput is scum. This time it's a little different but whatever. Freeze the thread and let VE speak a couple of words.
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EPT
