|
On July 20 2011 04:09 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 04:06 redFF wrote:
i played a game with a confirmed mafia once and none of the vigs shot him because they assumed the other vig would do it. When you find scum, you lynch them. Btw lynching if you think someone is scum is good, lynching for information is bad and leads to a shit ton of wifom.
For instance
B is voted
A defends B
B gets lynched and B is mafia
Town:A IS MAFIA TOO
A turns out to be town who thought B was town too.
Do you understand why that kind of play is bad?
We have found scum, lynch him. If vig shots overlapped then it would definitely be a better idea to lynch him. But the vigi's get their shots back if overlap occurs; no one should be scared of the other vigi "stealing" a kill.
Well, I'm more worried about the overlap, because it means all our vigs are tied up with one person and can't shoot other scummy people if they want to. That, or none of the vigs end up shooting him because they figure somebody else will do it.
Personally, I'd rather that we lynch VE today and get the confirmed scum out of the way. That way, we don't need to worry about him still being alive tomorrow. If anything will reduce pressure on people, it's an easy lynch on day 2, where it should be based on better and stronger analysis than on day 1.
If you want to keep pressure up on people like Red, SS, and whoever else, then ask for vigs to shoot them and provide reasoning. I think a potential bullet will provide more pressure than a possible lynch, especially for people who aren't being bandwagoned.
|
|
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 20 2011 04:12 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 04:03 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:59 Jackal58 wrote:On July 20 2011 03:51 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:48 bumatlarge wrote:On July 20 2011 03:43 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:31 syllogism wrote:
Yes, I suppose shooting him is better. It doesn't particularly matter even if there's overlap as the redundant vigs get their shots back. Yep. Lynching him doesn't yield any information. Also lynching him now releases pressure off the people we are pursuing now. Better to just vigi this one since it's a no brainer. I'm not understanding this reasoning. Most games mislynch day 1, and here we are with a traitor on a silver platter. Why not take the free kill, hold onto our bullets and get the information that's going to come at night in the form of dead people and clues. Are there clues at lynch time or something? I don't think I fully understand where everyone is coming from with this. No it's just that we already have some good suspects in this thread. If we lynch one of those and they flip either way, we can deduce certain things about the game based on defenses, votes etc. This guy is so stupid that you'd be stupid to not vote for him if he was to be lynched. There's no defense, no vote disparity, no KP reduced, nothing yielded other than a guaranteed kill. We can achieve a guaranteed kill another way instead of wasting a lynch, which is much better information wise than a vigi kill, on an idiot. And what if he's still alive tomorrow? What then? You find scum you lynch scum. I have seen Vig targets not get hit because all the vigs figured somebody else would shoot him. Also can our vigs shoot night 1? Say we go ahead and lynch SS or red or RoL. Say any of them flip green. Say VE is still alive at the next day post. Then what? I don't like dealing in what ifs and wishful thinking any more than I like dealing in absolutes. But this is one absolute I can handle. Lynch him. How can he be alive when he's obviously mafia. That would count on every single vig in this game being inactive because there's no excuse not to hit him (you get your hit back if you try a redundant hit). The only absolute that comes from lynching him is absolutely no information and a waste of all this day 1 analysis. All of this day 1 analysis will be there day 2. You can't guarantee me VE won't be too. And I was in the game redFF is referring to. I was the confirmed scum. I was also DT confirmed scum in Sleeper Cell and lived the final 2 days to end game. Scum won. You find scum you lynch scum. And at Drazerk, Why the hell would scum shoot him?
Yeah bad logic on my half with the scum shooting him. Regardless I don't think we should lynch him and I am going to keep with my vote.
Vigi's don't lose their bullets so they WILL shoot him if he isn't lynched. There is no reason not to.
|
On July 20 2011 04:18 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 04:12 Jackal58 wrote:On July 20 2011 04:03 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:59 Jackal58 wrote:On July 20 2011 03:51 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:48 bumatlarge wrote:On July 20 2011 03:43 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:31 syllogism wrote:
Yes, I suppose shooting him is better. It doesn't particularly matter even if there's overlap as the redundant vigs get their shots back. Yep. Lynching him doesn't yield any information. Also lynching him now releases pressure off the people we are pursuing now. Better to just vigi this one since it's a no brainer. I'm not understanding this reasoning. Most games mislynch day 1, and here we are with a traitor on a silver platter. Why not take the free kill, hold onto our bullets and get the information that's going to come at night in the form of dead people and clues. Are there clues at lynch time or something? I don't think I fully understand where everyone is coming from with this. No it's just that we already have some good suspects in this thread. If we lynch one of those and they flip either way, we can deduce certain things about the game based on defenses, votes etc. This guy is so stupid that you'd be stupid to not vote for him if he was to be lynched. There's no defense, no vote disparity, no KP reduced, nothing yielded other than a guaranteed kill. We can achieve a guaranteed kill another way instead of wasting a lynch, which is much better information wise than a vigi kill, on an idiot. And what if he's still alive tomorrow? What then? You find scum you lynch scum. I have seen Vig targets not get hit because all the vigs figured somebody else would shoot him. Also can our vigs shoot night 1? Say we go ahead and lynch SS or red or RoL. Say any of them flip green. Say VE is still alive at the next day post. Then what? I don't like dealing in what ifs and wishful thinking any more than I like dealing in absolutes. But this is one absolute I can handle. Lynch him. How can he be alive when he's obviously mafia. That would count on every single vig in this game being inactive because there's no excuse not to hit him (you get your hit back if you try a redundant hit). The only absolute that comes from lynching him is absolutely no information and a waste of all this day 1 analysis. All of this day 1 analysis will be there day 2. You can't guarantee me VE won't be too. And I was in the game redFF is referring to. I was the confirmed scum. I was also DT confirmed scum in Sleeper Cell and lived the final 2 days to end game. Scum won. You find scum you lynch scum. And at Drazerk, Why the hell would scum shoot him? Yeah bad logic on my half with the scum shooting him. Regardless I don't think we should lynch him and I am going to keep with my vote. Vigi's don't lose their bullets so they WILL shoot him if he isn't lynched. There is no reason not to.
The reason they don't, is because they like to think they're independent lone-wolves. They'll say, "I think this guy is scummy, and there are probably other vigs, so I'll just shoot him and let the other vigs take care of VE". But then what happens is every vig says that, and we end up with a bunch of dead people, and VE still alive.
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 20 2011 04:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 04:18 Drazerk wrote:On July 20 2011 04:12 Jackal58 wrote:On July 20 2011 04:03 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:59 Jackal58 wrote:On July 20 2011 03:51 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:48 bumatlarge wrote:On July 20 2011 03:43 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:31 syllogism wrote:
Yes, I suppose shooting him is better. It doesn't particularly matter even if there's overlap as the redundant vigs get their shots back. Yep. Lynching him doesn't yield any information. Also lynching him now releases pressure off the people we are pursuing now. Better to just vigi this one since it's a no brainer. I'm not understanding this reasoning. Most games mislynch day 1, and here we are with a traitor on a silver platter. Why not take the free kill, hold onto our bullets and get the information that's going to come at night in the form of dead people and clues. Are there clues at lynch time or something? I don't think I fully understand where everyone is coming from with this. No it's just that we already have some good suspects in this thread. If we lynch one of those and they flip either way, we can deduce certain things about the game based on defenses, votes etc. This guy is so stupid that you'd be stupid to not vote for him if he was to be lynched. There's no defense, no vote disparity, no KP reduced, nothing yielded other than a guaranteed kill. We can achieve a guaranteed kill another way instead of wasting a lynch, which is much better information wise than a vigi kill, on an idiot. And what if he's still alive tomorrow? What then? You find scum you lynch scum. I have seen Vig targets not get hit because all the vigs figured somebody else would shoot him. Also can our vigs shoot night 1? Say we go ahead and lynch SS or red or RoL. Say any of them flip green. Say VE is still alive at the next day post. Then what? I don't like dealing in what ifs and wishful thinking any more than I like dealing in absolutes. But this is one absolute I can handle. Lynch him. How can he be alive when he's obviously mafia. That would count on every single vig in this game being inactive because there's no excuse not to hit him (you get your hit back if you try a redundant hit). The only absolute that comes from lynching him is absolutely no information and a waste of all this day 1 analysis. All of this day 1 analysis will be there day 2. You can't guarantee me VE won't be too. And I was in the game redFF is referring to. I was the confirmed scum. I was also DT confirmed scum in Sleeper Cell and lived the final 2 days to end game. Scum won. You find scum you lynch scum. And at Drazerk, Why the hell would scum shoot him? Yeah bad logic on my half with the scum shooting him. Regardless I don't think we should lynch him and I am going to keep with my vote. Vigi's don't lose their bullets so they WILL shoot him if he isn't lynched. There is no reason not to. The reason they don't, is because they like to think they're independent lone-wolves. They'll say, "I think this guy is scummy, and there are probably other vigs, so I'll just shoot him and let the other vigs take care of VE". But then what happens is every vig says that, and we end up with a bunch of dead people, and VE still alive.
Ok how about this then Harley Quinn / Firefly Shoot VE tonight. One of them is bound to be in the game and it lets other vigi's use their best judgement for their own shots without dealing with VE.
|
Then town is screwed obviously. Of course that's assuming I wasn't trying to trap him myself. We'll see who's confirmed and who's not soon. The fact that Wiggles outed this conversation confirms him as town imo and solidifies my read on RoL. I'll still be voting for him today.
|
On July 20 2011 04:24 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 04:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On July 20 2011 04:18 Drazerk wrote:On July 20 2011 04:12 Jackal58 wrote:On July 20 2011 04:03 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:59 Jackal58 wrote:On July 20 2011 03:51 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:48 bumatlarge wrote:On July 20 2011 03:43 ketomai wrote:On July 20 2011 03:31 syllogism wrote:
Yes, I suppose shooting him is better. It doesn't particularly matter even if there's overlap as the redundant vigs get their shots back. Yep. Lynching him doesn't yield any information. Also lynching him now releases pressure off the people we are pursuing now. Better to just vigi this one since it's a no brainer. I'm not understanding this reasoning. Most games mislynch day 1, and here we are with a traitor on a silver platter. Why not take the free kill, hold onto our bullets and get the information that's going to come at night in the form of dead people and clues. Are there clues at lynch time or something? I don't think I fully understand where everyone is coming from with this. No it's just that we already have some good suspects in this thread. If we lynch one of those and they flip either way, we can deduce certain things about the game based on defenses, votes etc. This guy is so stupid that you'd be stupid to not vote for him if he was to be lynched. There's no defense, no vote disparity, no KP reduced, nothing yielded other than a guaranteed kill. We can achieve a guaranteed kill another way instead of wasting a lynch, which is much better information wise than a vigi kill, on an idiot. And what if he's still alive tomorrow? What then? You find scum you lynch scum. I have seen Vig targets not get hit because all the vigs figured somebody else would shoot him. Also can our vigs shoot night 1? Say we go ahead and lynch SS or red or RoL. Say any of them flip green. Say VE is still alive at the next day post. Then what? I don't like dealing in what ifs and wishful thinking any more than I like dealing in absolutes. But this is one absolute I can handle. Lynch him. How can he be alive when he's obviously mafia. That would count on every single vig in this game being inactive because there's no excuse not to hit him (you get your hit back if you try a redundant hit). The only absolute that comes from lynching him is absolutely no information and a waste of all this day 1 analysis. All of this day 1 analysis will be there day 2. You can't guarantee me VE won't be too. And I was in the game redFF is referring to. I was the confirmed scum. I was also DT confirmed scum in Sleeper Cell and lived the final 2 days to end game. Scum won. You find scum you lynch scum. And at Drazerk, Why the hell would scum shoot him? Yeah bad logic on my half with the scum shooting him. Regardless I don't think we should lynch him and I am going to keep with my vote. Vigi's don't lose their bullets so they WILL shoot him if he isn't lynched. There is no reason not to. The reason they don't, is because they like to think they're independent lone-wolves. They'll say, "I think this guy is scummy, and there are probably other vigs, so I'll just shoot him and let the other vigs take care of VE". But then what happens is every vig says that, and we end up with a bunch of dead people, and VE still alive. Ok how about this then Harley Quinn / Firefly Shoot VE tonight. One of them is bound to be in the game and it lets other vigi's use their best judgement for their own shots without dealing with VE.
omfgOn July 20 2011 03:16 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 23:38 Curu wrote:
Also how I propose we use our Vig hits:
Find the player that is most Pro Town. All Vigs declare and roleclaim to this guy, then get a Vig quicktopic going on so their hits can be coordinated.
It is highly unlikely that any Mafia member will try to slip himself into this circle since doing so will only get you shot. I'd suggest that only the Vigs outlined in the OP be included in this group:
Zsasz, Calendar Man, Harley Quinn, Firefly
If you're a Vig and got some hidden role, tough luck.
If all the Vigs start dying, then we know the Pro Town guy is a snitch.
Pros
Vig hits don't overlap
Vigs can discuss amongst themselves in a confirmed Town circle
Cons
If the Pro Town player we choose is Mafia, we lose all our Vigs in exchange for 1 Mafia member (bad trade) - I suggest we don't try doing this plan until someone is more or less confirmed Town
If Mafia has been given a list of available safeclaims and included in it were some of the roles in the OP then this whole plan is screwed
The latter point is what I am most afraid of. BC hinted that mass claiming won't break the game, so it may be that he provided Mafia safeclaims that were some of the names in the OP but not actually in the game.
BC can you confirm or deny this?
----------------
supersoft, I give up. You won't cooperate with me no matter what I try. Me and Palmar suspected redFF long before you did. I'm trying hard to give myself reasons to stop seeing you as scum but it's just not working.
----------------
Pyo at least is sticking to his guns, which gives some reason to believe that he actually believes what he's saying as misguided and wrong as it is.
from the op Show nested quote +For the roles of vig/vet/med/hatter. Character names/flavour text is not limited to the names provided in this post. All names provided were samples to give an idea of how my system works. the vigs could be called hush/scarecrow/tweedledum/riddler for all we know
when you find scum you lynch them, i have stuff to say about vigis too but ill save that til tonight.
|
Look how much has happened in day 1, day 2 will bring just as many if not more information, diluting the day 1 info. Also in the previous mafia games I've played the entire game only lasts like 5 days max, you can not guarantee that this will not give the mafia enough breathing room to tip this into their favor.
If redFF flips red we can try to connect people like prplhz with him just based on ideas. We can also confirm that his PM to supersoft was done with malicious intentions (and therefore supersoft, a previous suspect, can be relatively clear because there's no way he fakes a PM with supersoft to reveal himself). Also, kavdragon did not stop this obvious slip, so if redFF turns out to be mafia, then we have a way to lean on kavdragon as well.
If he's black then we can kind of dismiss teaming up with people and also we pretty much have to drop his accusations on Lucidity as being stupid as well. I really don't see him flipping black at all because his agenda is too specific to mafia or stupidity.
If he's green then we know he was just dumb and we leave the suspicious people suspicious. Unfortunately if he flips green then it's the least favorable scenario, but read my post a few pages ago and you will see that he is going out of his way to sabotage the town. I just don't see a green doing that at all.
However the main reads don't come automatically. Who defended him, who voted for him are all much more valuable than the immediately obvious connections.
I don't see why no one sees that we have perfectly good candidates to lynch but we are letting them off the hook chasing an idiot.
Again: we don't gain any information on lynching VE that we don't get from vigi killing him because EVERYONE will vote VE and it is not strange at all to do so. Doing it like this is much more efficient and time saving. Time is on the mafia's side. If we delay they get 3 sure kills and this does not even count third party or misled vigis and have an opportunity to wiggle out day 2. If we vigi VE, we keep the pressure on the mafia and they don't just get a free day to vote VE.
|
I'll ask BC clarification on vigis. I was under the impression that while vigis send in hits at night, if the vigis overlap he sends it back and they can choose a new target (other wise what's the point of giving back a vigi hit? They have infinite). Therefore there's no risk in just having every vigi regardless hit VE then the ones that don't go through change to whatever they want.
|
On July 20 2011 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Then town is screwed obviously. Of course that's assuming I wasn't trying to trap him myself. We'll see who's confirmed and who's not soon. The fact that Wiggles outed this conversation confirms him as town imo and solidifies my read on RoL. I'll still be voting for him today.
what the fuck
what is this
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 20 2011 04:35 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Then town is screwed obviously. Of course that's assuming I wasn't trying to trap him myself. We'll see who's confirmed and who's not soon. The fact that Wiggles outed this conversation confirms him as town imo and solidifies my read on RoL. I'll still be voting for him today. what the fuck what is this
All that post did was reinforce my opinion on wiggles... Outing VE is like the holy grail of town cred.
|
First off, Kurumi has stopped trolling to some extent. He could do a better job, but at least its not too bad. As such I'm unvoting him.
I've been suspicious of redFF ever since one of his earlier posts. It just felt too much like someone trying hard to blend in.
I definitely thing the supersoft wagon started way too quickly.
I'm going to read over redFF's posts, and probaly will be voting for him.
|
Ketomei I see where you are coming from, when its this black and white the mafia will just stack viscera, but sometimes its better to just get rid of a confirmed scum then let him hang around.
I agree we will get less information from lynching him since the mafia won't care, but it resolves a few issues right now, and I'd rather not hope the vigi's can act tonight, and that they will kill viscera.
|
On July 20 2011 04:30 ketomai wrote:
Look how much has happened in day 1, day 2 will bring just as many if not more information, diluting the day 1 info. Also in the previous mafia games I've played the entire game only lasts like 5 days max, you can not guarantee that this will not give the mafia enough breathing room to tip this into their favor.
If redFF flips red we can try to connect people like prplhz with him just based on ideas. We can also confirm that his PM to supersoft was done with malicious intentions (and therefore supersoft, a previous suspect, can be relatively clear because there's no way he fakes a PM with supersoft to reveal himself). Also, kavdragon did not stop this obvious slip, so if redFF turns out to be mafia, then we have a way to lean on kavdragon as well.
If he's black then we can kind of dismiss teaming up with people and also we pretty much have to drop his accusations on Lucidity as being stupid as well. I really don't see him flipping black at all because his agenda is too specific to mafia or stupidity.
If he's green then we know he was just dumb and we leave the suspicious people suspicious. Unfortunately if he flips green then it's the least favorable scenario, but read my post a few pages ago and you will see that he is going out of his way to sabotage the town. I just don't see a green doing that at all.
However the main reads don't come automatically. Who defended him, who voted for him are all much more valuable than the immediately obvious connections.
I don't see why no one sees that we have perfectly good candidates to lynch but we are letting them off the hook chasing an idiot.
Again: we don't gain any information on lynching VE that we don't get from vigi killing him because EVERYONE will vote VE and it is not strange at all to do so. Doing it like this is much more efficient and time saving. Time is on the mafia's side. If we delay they get 3 sure kills and this does not even count third party or misled vigis and have an opportunity to wiggle out day 2. If we vigi VE, we keep the pressure on the mafia and they don't just get a free day to vote VE.
Tell ya what. Why don't we have our Vigs shoot at the lesser known quantities of redFF, SS prplhze, yourself and others that don't want to lynch scum. You have so much confidence in our vigs let them shoot the unknowns and we lynch scum. Of course I'm starting to think we could lynch VE or you and get the same result. You guys got a scummy doctor on your team?
|
On July 20 2011 04:30 ketomai wrote:
If he's green then we know he was just dumb
omfg, when you mislynch and then they flip green you can't just shrug your shoulders and say oh w/e he was bad and dumb. that whole post was awful but that part really sticks out to me.
|
First of all, no one is confirmed. More details later.
|
On July 20 2011 04:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
First of all, no one is confirmed. More details later.
Why don't you just stop posting?
|
you guys realize that your votechanging is senseless. 10 noobs that probably don't even read the thread keep their votes on me.
i think redFFs defense is actually ok. the denying of a connection between him and prplhz is logical but not 100% convincing.
But I don't really get the VE bandwagon... okay he posted, that he likes nearly every possible lynchcandidat other than me, but...
|
On July 20 2011 04:42 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 04:30 ketomai wrote:
Look how much has happened in day 1, day 2 will bring just as many if not more information, diluting the day 1 info. Also in the previous mafia games I've played the entire game only lasts like 5 days max, you can not guarantee that this will not give the mafia enough breathing room to tip this into their favor.
If redFF flips red we can try to connect people like prplhz with him just based on ideas. We can also confirm that his PM to supersoft was done with malicious intentions (and therefore supersoft, a previous suspect, can be relatively clear because there's no way he fakes a PM with supersoft to reveal himself). Also, kavdragon did not stop this obvious slip, so if redFF turns out to be mafia, then we have a way to lean on kavdragon as well.
If he's black then we can kind of dismiss teaming up with people and also we pretty much have to drop his accusations on Lucidity as being stupid as well. I really don't see him flipping black at all because his agenda is too specific to mafia or stupidity.
If he's green then we know he was just dumb and we leave the suspicious people suspicious. Unfortunately if he flips green then it's the least favorable scenario, but read my post a few pages ago and you will see that he is going out of his way to sabotage the town. I just don't see a green doing that at all.
However the main reads don't come automatically. Who defended him, who voted for him are all much more valuable than the immediately obvious connections.
I don't see why no one sees that we have perfectly good candidates to lynch but we are letting them off the hook chasing an idiot.
Again: we don't gain any information on lynching VE that we don't get from vigi killing him because EVERYONE will vote VE and it is not strange at all to do so. Doing it like this is much more efficient and time saving. Time is on the mafia's side. If we delay they get 3 sure kills and this does not even count third party or misled vigis and have an opportunity to wiggle out day 2. If we vigi VE, we keep the pressure on the mafia and they don't just get a free day to vote VE. Tell ya what. Why don't we have our Vigs shoot at the lesser known quantities of redFF, SS prplhze, yourself and others that don't want to lynch scum. You have so much confidence in our vigs let them shoot the unknowns and we lynch scum. Of course I'm starting to think we could lynch VE or you and get the same result. You guys got a scummy doctor on your team?
Did you just ignore the entire post? Lynching VE, though he is confirmed scum, doesn't give us anything. Vigi hitting a sure fire mafia is completely different from depending on vigis to hit different, questionable mafia on their own. They would also have to send in multiple hits until they don't overlap and we wouldn't be able to control anything. Why would we use vigis to kill uncertain mafia instead of using vote to help reveal other mafia?
And read the OP, there is no mafia doctor...
I don't understand how lynching VE yields the same result at all...are you just ignoring everything I've been saying to troll me?
|
the game is so complicated... the case against RoL i found extremely weak, the people that voted on them were among others :
Kurumi
VE
YM
VE might be scum, YM made an extremely scummy post earlier which i commented on, sadly everyone ignored it. im going to zzzzzz
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
