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BC's Arkham Asylum - Page 41

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
July 19 2011 17:48 GMT
#801
On July 20 2011 02:39 youngminii wrote:
i now believe redff is town

i honestly can't see any scum being THAT bad
he's so indecisive and posts so many one liners
i just, i don't think i've ever seen scum play like that, it just doesn't make sense

it looks more like drazerk back in his first game or two when he used to martyr himself for no reason

VOTE ROL
SCUM


That logic is detrimental. The same logic was used to keep Attackzerg/RoL alive in mafia resurrection by the town despite massive logical points about why they should be lynched immediately. What happened was those two obvious mafia got to standby as "prime suspects" while innocents got lynched in their place and mafia KP stayed up for two more nights, which eventually led to the end of the game (RoL never even died, that's how fast the game ended).

It's no good to dismiss mistakes as bad play all the time. Previous games suggest that mafia-like play is most likely mafia in the end.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
July 19 2011 17:50 GMT
#802
On July 20 2011 02:19 Nisani201 wrote:
I don't think a scum would take the risk of randomly defending his scumbuddy based on no evidence. If supersoft flips scum then I doubt redFF is scum, otherwise he is just trying to earn town cred and in that case I would have no problem lynching him.

How would you differentiate between the two? Statement makes no sense to me. You have to lynch redFF to validate either scenario.
If the purpose of lynching Supersoft is to determine redFFs reason for defending him and then lynching redFF to verify your reasoning why lynch Supersoft?
I understand the case against SS.
I understand the case against redFF.
I can't see why either of them need to be lynched to provide information on the other.
We either are going to lynch them both or it's time to move on. This is all WIFOM before the fact.
Life can only kill you once.
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
July 19 2011 17:54 GMT
#803
stop discussing wifom

kill rol for he is scum
lalala
Nisani201
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1400 Posts
July 19 2011 18:01 GMT
#804
On July 20 2011 02:50 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2011 02:19 Nisani201 wrote:
I don't think a scum would take the risk of randomly defending his scumbuddy based on no evidence. If supersoft flips scum then I doubt redFF is scum, otherwise he is just trying to earn town cred and in that case I would have no problem lynching him.

How would you differentiate between the two? Statement makes no sense to me. You have to lynch redFF to validate either scenario.
If the purpose of lynching Supersoft is to determine redFFs reason for defending him and then lynching redFF to verify your reasoning why lynch Supersoft?
I understand the case against SS.
I understand the case against redFF.
I can't see why either of them need to be lynched to provide information on the other.
We either are going to lynch them both or it's time to move on. This is all WIFOM before the fact.

You're right, lynching either of them provides information on the other. However SS has more raw evidence than redFF to prove that he's scum. It's safer to lynch him.
Enjoy your day.
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
July 19 2011 18:10 GMT
#805
On July 20 2011 03:01 Nisani201 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2011 02:50 Jackal58 wrote:
On July 20 2011 02:19 Nisani201 wrote:
I don't think a scum would take the risk of randomly defending his scumbuddy based on no evidence. If supersoft flips scum then I doubt redFF is scum, otherwise he is just trying to earn town cred and in that case I would have no problem lynching him.

How would you differentiate between the two? Statement makes no sense to me. You have to lynch redFF to validate either scenario.
If the purpose of lynching Supersoft is to determine redFFs reason for defending him and then lynching redFF to verify your reasoning why lynch Supersoft?
I understand the case against SS.
I understand the case against redFF.
I can't see why either of them need to be lynched to provide information on the other.
We either are going to lynch them both or it's time to move on. This is all WIFOM before the fact.

You're right, lynching either of them provides information on the other. However SS has more raw evidence than redFF to prove that he's scum. It's safer to lynch him.


What do you mean?

supersoft: initially accused on whim, lying. No motivation seen for his lies.

redFF: accused because of leaked pms. Can only be described as having mafia motives or stupidity.

supersoft: in coincidental pm contact with kavdragon, redFF
redFF: has a vendetta against lucidity, randomly attacks curu (can mean different things) in retaliation, has an agenda similar to prplhz, wants to be close to supersoft.

Clearly redFF is the safer scum...and clearly redFF will yield more information from a lynch. THe first reason is enough alone, the second one only cements it.
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
July 19 2011 18:14 GMT
#806
LOL, I'm so good I don't even need to scum hunt:

+ Show Spoiler +
[11:16] <VisceraEyes> Okay, so Joker or Ras? Inquiring minds want to know.
[11:17] <MrWiggles> Hmmm?
[11:17] <MrWiggles> Neither
[11:17] <MrWiggles> I just think about the set-up
[11:17] <VisceraEyes> Yes, I get that...but you also lurk bad.
[11:17] <VisceraEyes> 2 + 2 often equals 4.
[11:17] <MrWiggles> nah, I'm just not around when I don't post
[11:17] <VisceraEyes> Yeah, I feel that.
[11:18] <MrWiggles> Also, my posts are usually longer, not just one or two line
[11:18] <VisceraEyes> Part of why I favor a RoL lynch over you.
[11:20] <VisceraEyes> I get that your posts have SETUP content...but the case against you is very compelling. You literally haven't taken a stance on anyone.
[11:20] <MrWiggles> I have, just not in thread
[11:20] <VisceraEyes> And you don't strike me as the type to be 'afraid' to take a stand against anyone, scum OR Town.
[11:20] <VisceraEyes> Ah I see...so you're playing with people who are WORTH playing with.
[11:20] <VisceraEyes> Got it.
[11:21] <VisceraEyes> I'll leave you alone then.
[11:21] <MrWiggles> hmmm?
[11:21] <VisceraEyes>
[11:21] <MrWiggles> lol
[11:21] <MrWiggles> just discussing things
[11:21] <MrWiggles> it's day 1, most of the analysis is incorrect
[11:21] <VisceraEyes> So what kind of stances have you taken out of thread?
[11:21] <VisceraEyes> BTW, stances taken out of thread are not stances at all
[11:21] <VisceraEyes> Stances are for everyone to see
[11:21] <MrWiggles> RoL is suspicous, I don't like RedFF, Palmar is probs third party
[11:21] <MrWiggles> It's funny
[11:21] <VisceraEyes> Why Palmar 3rd?
[11:22] <MrWiggles> how he's been acting
[11:22] <MrWiggles> mig thinks he's suspicous too
[11:22] <VisceraEyes> Yeah, Mig's been in contact with me too.
[11:22] <MrWiggles> Until recently, he hasn't contributed anything
[11:22] <VisceraEyes> What's funny about that is that
[11:22] <VisceraEyes> Yes
[11:22] <VisceraEyes> That
[11:22] <VisceraEyes> I told Mig that he was not playing like his normal self.
[11:22] <MrWiggles> he's just been pointing out blatant stuff, and making posts that are non-contributuions
[11:22] <VisceraEyes> And then 12 hours later he starts contributing.
[11:23] <MrWiggles> Also, I asked him about the naz post
[11:23] <MrWiggles> because it looked weird to me
[11:23] <VisceraEyes> Which?
[11:23] <MrWiggles> he hops on a bandwagon
[11:23] <MrWiggles> then calls out naz for the same thing
[11:23] <MrWiggles> but doesn't call out the two people who stealth voted before him
[11:23] <MrWiggles> or the two who vote without reasons right after
[11:23] <MrWiggles> If I was town, I'd be mad at all of them
[11:23] <VisceraEyes> Eh...anything regarding Nazgul I'm attributing to starfucking
[11:23] <MrWiggles> not just making one post about one
[11:24] <MrWiggles> it's just a useless post to look like a contribution
[11:24] <MrWiggles> As well, he PMed me about that, instead of responding in thread
[11:24] <MrWiggles> and was pretty angry and defensive
[11:24] <VisceraEyes> Oh?
[11:24] <MrWiggles> yeah
[11:25] <VisceraEyes> So "If I was town, I'd be mad at all of them"
[11:25] <VisceraEyes> sigh
[11:25] <MrWiggles> hmmm?
[11:25] <MrWiggles> it just looks weird
[11:25] <MrWiggles> it's like making one post about one lurker
[11:25] <MrWiggles> and never following through
[11:26] <MrWiggles> he also attacked CB, a noob, which was basically tunneling
[11:26] <MrWiggles> and dropped that pretty quickly
[11:26] <MrWiggles> for no reason, to hop onto supersoft
[11:26] <VisceraEyes> Hey
[11:26] <VisceraEyes> Wait
[11:26] <MrWiggles> just tunneling a noob, 12 hours into the day, is a great way to look like you're doing something
[11:26] <VisceraEyes> Will you explain the line 'If I was town, I'd be mad at all of them'
[11:27] <MrWiggles> hmmm?
[11:27] <VisceraEyes> Did you just claim not town to me?
[11:27] <MrWiggles> I'm talking from his perspective
[11:27] <VisceraEyes> Ah
[11:27] <MrWiggles> I'm an SK, so this is how I think. If I was town, I'd think like this
[11:28] <MrWiggles> that's how I analyze people
[11:28] <MrWiggles> try to look at things from their perspective, and what their motives and goals are
[11:32] <VisceraEyes> Okay, I'm red. I think you're scum because you're playing the same way you played when you were my GF in RTM. That's why I'm telling you. If you're not, I've made a huge mistake and I'll probably hang...but if you are, I need to be brought into the fold...because without knowledge of my teammates, I could be pushing to lynch teammates...and as Mafia, that's a big effing boon.
[11:32] <MrWiggles> you're saying you're the traitor?
[11:32] <VisceraEyes> Yes.
[11:32] <VisceraEyes> It's gambit time

[11:34] <VisceraEyes> Fuc,k
[11:34] <VisceraEyes> lol
[11:35] <MrWiggles> hmmm?
[11:35] <VisceraEyes> Felt like you just alt-tabbed to the forum to post this conversation.
[11:35] <MrWiggles> No, I'm just thinking
[11:38] == VisceraEyes [webchat@50-90-142-54.res.bhn.net]
[11:38] == realname : http://webchat.quakenet.org
[11:38] == channels : #TLMafia
[11:38] == server : *.quakenet.org [QuakeNet IRC Server]
[11:38] == End of WHOIS
[11:38] <VisceraEyes> What about?
[11:38] <MrWiggles> How to move forward
[11:38] <MrWiggles> Who else have you been talking to?
[11:39] <VisceraEyes> I've talked to youngminii about how to get RoL lynched, and I've been talking to Mig about my suspicions
[11:39] <VisceraEyes> Mostly revolving around RoL and Palmar
[11:40] <MrWiggles> ok
[11:40] <VisceraEyes> He wanted my opinion of SS
[11:40] <VisceraEyes> I told him I think he's newbTown
[11:40] <MrWiggles> so you think YM is red?
[11:40] <VisceraEyes> No
[11:40] <VisceraEyes> Well
[11:40] <VisceraEyes> I dont' know
[11:40] <MrWiggles> haha
[11:40] <VisceraEyes> But I haven't come out to him if that's what you're asking
[11:41] <MrWiggles> who are you talking to right now?
[11:41] <VisceraEyes> You
[11:41] <VisceraEyes> I just sent a response pm to CuRu
[11:41] <MrWiggles> ok, I got the impression you were with a group of people
[11:42] <VisceraEyes> Mostly just Mig and you...youngminii to a lesser extent.
[11:42] <VisceraEyes> I tried to raise Palmar on IRC but he's nonresponsive.
[11:42] <VisceraEyes> Meaning he's onto me and is preparing a tunnel.
[11:42] <VisceraEyes> lol
[11:42] <MrWiggles> lolol
[11:42] <MrWiggles> So what do you want to do?
[11:43] <VisceraEyes> What do you mean?
[11:43] <VisceraEyes> I want to win.
[11:43] <MrWiggles> Ok, what do you want me to do?
[11:44] <VisceraEyes> What do you mean?
[11:44] <VisceraEyes> If you're scum, I want you to tell me who my teammates are. If you're town I want you to forget this conversation. If you're 3rd party....I want you to not kill me at night. lmao
[11:45] <MrWiggles> lol
[11:45] <VisceraEyes> I don't understand the question
[11:45] <MrWiggles> well
[11:45] <MrWiggles> there's a weird situation here
[11:45] <MrWiggles> where we both don't know eachother's alignment
[11:45] <MrWiggles> I could be town, and you could be scum, in which case, you're screwed
[11:45] <VisceraEyes> But you might
[11:46] <MrWiggles> Or, I could be scum, and you could be town, and this is a trap
[11:46] <VisceraEyes> True.
[11:46] <VisceraEyes> Yeah
[11:46] <VisceraEyes> Okaty
[11:46] <MrWiggles> Or, we could both be scum, and this is good
[11:46] <VisceraEyes> I see what you're saying.
[11:46] <VisceraEyes> Hmmmmm
[11:46] <MrWiggles> Or, we're both town, and you're trying to trap me, and I'm trying to trap you
[11:46] <VisceraEyes> What do you suggest?
[11:46] <MrWiggles> just play like normal
[11:47] <VisceraEyes> Well, this is a halo of flies now.
[11:47] <VisceraEyes> And I can't play normally with this hanging over me
[11:47] <VisceraEyes> So I'm gonna have to tunnel you.
[11:47] <VisceraEyes> Until you claim to me.
[11:47] <VisceraEyes> It's the only thing I can think of.
[11:48] <VisceraEyes> Make your words less credible if you're town.
[11:48] <VisceraEyes> Because you have information abotu me.
[11:48] <MrWiggles> lol
[11:49] <MrWiggles> If I'm red, then this isn't bad, because it keeps you from incriminating anyone, and causes confusion
[11:49] <MrWiggles> If I'm green, then you just get to sit in ignorance
[11:50] <VisceraEyes> If you're green you would have already posted this conversation
[11:51] <VisceraEyes> So I have to assume you're red or 3rd
[11:51] <MrWiggles> Maybe i'm just fishing for information
[11:51] <VisceraEyes> I just gave you all the information I have..who I've talked to, my role, everything I know
[11:51] <VisceraEyes> And it's all right there for you to post
[11:51] <VisceraEyes> And you haven't.
[11:51] <VisceraEyes> You're red or 3rd.
[11:51] <VisceraEyes> So
[11:52] <VisceraEyes> I will not try and lynch you.
[12:03] <VisceraEyes> But tell me what to do about RoL. I have NO idea as to his alignment, but I think he's a solid lynch candidate. Should I advocate it or not? The power...is YOURS!!!!11!!
[12:05] <VisceraEyes> I await your response...going to work nao
[12:06] <VisceraEyes> My fate is in your hands.
[12:06] <VisceraEyes> Don't squander it.
[12:06] <VisceraEyes>


Basically, I wanted to fish for information a bit, and wanted to try to figure out whether to reveal this now, or at night and let vigs deal with it. Decided to reveal now, to avoid vig overlap tonight. He also wasn't giving me any more information. Lynch ends in 7 hours, kill this guy. Shoot redFF, maybe Palmar, tonight.

##Vote: VisceraEyes
you gotta dance
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
July 19 2011 18:16 GMT
#807
On July 19 2011 23:38 Curu wrote:
Also how I propose we use our Vig hits:

Find the player that is most Pro Town. All Vigs declare and roleclaim to this guy, then get a Vig quicktopic going on so their hits can be coordinated.

It is highly unlikely that any Mafia member will try to slip himself into this circle since doing so will only get you shot. I'd suggest that only the Vigs outlined in the OP be included in this group:

Zsasz, Calendar Man, Harley Quinn, Firefly

If you're a Vig and got some hidden role, tough luck.

If all the Vigs start dying, then we know the Pro Town guy is a snitch.

Pros
Vig hits don't overlap
Vigs can discuss amongst themselves in a confirmed Town circle

Cons
If the Pro Town player we choose is Mafia, we lose all our Vigs in exchange for 1 Mafia member (bad trade) - I suggest we don't try doing this plan until someone is more or less confirmed Town
If Mafia has been given a list of available safeclaims and included in it were some of the roles in the OP then this whole plan is screwed

The latter point is what I am most afraid of. BC hinted that mass claiming won't break the game, so it may be that he provided Mafia safeclaims that were some of the names in the OP but not actually in the game.

BC can you confirm or deny this?

----------------

supersoft, I give up. You won't cooperate with me no matter what I try. Me and Palmar suspected redFF long before you did. I'm trying hard to give myself reasons to stop seeing you as scum but it's just not working.

----------------

Pyo at least is sticking to his guns, which gives some reason to believe that he actually believes what he's saying as misguided and wrong as it is.




from the op
For the roles of vig/vet/med/hatter. Character names/flavour text is not limited to the names provided in this post. All names provided were samples to give an idea of how my system works.

the vigs could be called hush/scarecrow/tweedledum/riddler for all we know
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 19 2011 18:20 GMT
#808
Haha I'll take it

##vote VisceraEyes
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
July 19 2011 18:22 GMT
#809
its not senseless tunneling when I'm right visceraeyes

##vote visceraeyes
Computer says mafia
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 19 2011 18:22 GMT
#810
On July 20 2011 02:54 youngminii wrote:
stop discussing wifom

kill rol for he is scum

Coming from the guy who put so little effort into XLII that he looked painfully red on the worst day possible.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
hiro protagonist
Profile Joined January 2009
1294 Posts
July 19 2011 18:22 GMT
#811
LOL BC, you made Vis the Insane as revenge for PYP didn't you
"I guess if you climb enough off-widths, one of these days, your gonna get your knee stuck and shit your pants. Its just an odds thing really" -Jason Kruk
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
July 19 2011 18:22 GMT
#812
lol Wiggles. Well lynching VE provides no new information since we know his flip already and everyone can just bandwagon onto him. Just have a Vig shoot him tonight and continue as normal IMO.
wat
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
July 19 2011 18:26 GMT
#813
Don't think supersoft is scum, and I think it's much more likely that pyo is. I haven't read to much into it but thats what I'm getting.

I'll be putting up a VisceraEyes analysis after the lynch, because I don't think I'd be able to squeeze it in now.

Also important thing to note that I haven't seen mentioned:
BC has given us some blue numbers via flavor, and given us unrestricted PMs. Yay how tempting.

Their is a neat way to do this, we can divide up each similar roles (Bane and Killer Croc would be similar roles) and have each group PM the same person to avoid a massive catastrophe of a red getting the roles and turn it into little catastrophes! That way we can really optimize how the blues function and create zero overlap in similar powers. Also we would have strong circles with a public figure head, and we would have a suspect if two medics die. There would be no room for fakeclaiming except with the sniper, which I don't think should take part in this.

This is something to think through and we should definitely avoid doing it if there is any doubt. I'd like some thoughts on that. Palmar es cool guy, and his pyo analysis es numbare hwan
Together but separate, like oatmeal
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 19 2011 18:27 GMT
#814
ebwop: LOL@Viscera, ill go with it. It's odd the reasoning he used, wiggles you aren't acting at all like you did in previous mafia games imo.

##Vote ViceraEyes
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
July 19 2011 18:29 GMT
#815
Oh wow viscera, I was about to start that analysis too good work I guess mister wiggles lol?

[b]##Vote: VisceraEyes[/b[
Together but separate, like oatmeal
Shraft
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden701 Posts
July 19 2011 18:29 GMT
#816
Seems like VE is going down.

##unvote redFF
##Vote visceraeyes


That said, I still want redFF dead.
hiro protagonist
Profile Joined January 2009
1294 Posts
July 19 2011 18:30 GMT
#817
at the same time, Vis might have tried to trap Wiggles... ether way, Vis got to die. Voting for Vis would be bad because we get nothing from the vote list. We should stick to voting for one of the suspects, and shoot Vis tonight
"I guess if you climb enough off-widths, one of these days, your gonna get your knee stuck and shit your pants. Its just an odds thing really" -Jason Kruk
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 19 2011 18:31 GMT
#818
Yes, I suppose shooting him is better. It doesn't particularly matter even if there's overlap as the redundant vigs get their shots back.
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
July 19 2011 18:34 GMT
#819
wow
that's just
wow

voting VE
lalala
Nisani201
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1400 Posts
July 19 2011 18:37 GMT
#820
Don't vote for him, let the vig shoot him instead.
Enjoy your day.
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