• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:58
CEST 10:58
KST 17:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On6Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Mile High15
Community News
5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)43$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 150Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada10Weekly Cups (Sept 22-28): MaxPax double, Zerg wins, PTR12BSL Season 217
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada 5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version) SC2 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes + Sept 22nd update Had to smile :) Weekly Cups (Sept 22-28): MaxPax double, Zerg wins, PTR
Tourneys
Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15 LANified! 37: Groundswell, BYOC LAN, Nov 28-30 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight
Brood War
General
Flash On JaeDongs ASL Struggles & Perseverance Thoughts on rarely used units Any rep analyzer that shows resources situation? Recent recommended BW games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup №3 BSL Team Wars - Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta I am doing this better than progamers do. Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Liquipedia App: Now Covering SC2 and Brood War!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final
Blogs
[AI] Sorry, Chill, My Bad :…
Peanutsc
Try to reverse getting fired …
Garnet
[ASL20] Players bad at pi…
pullarius1
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1780 users

[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 38

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 36 37 38 39 40 451 Next
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 16 2012 08:37 GMT
#741
Westrice is leaving.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/14xotb/hi_im_westrice_and_im_no_longer_a_part_of_team/
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
December 16 2012 08:40 GMT
#742
And no one shed a tear.
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
December 16 2012 08:40 GMT
#743
Voyboy taking all the limelight, no opportunity for Westrice
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 16 2012 08:53 GMT
#744
On December 16 2012 17:40 MooMooMugi wrote:
Voyboy taking all the limelight, no opportunity for Westrice


I wonder if Westrice would make a better support than Elementz.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-16 08:56:41
December 16 2012 08:55 GMT
#745
On December 16 2012 07:34 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 06:31 Seuss wrote:
On December 16 2012 04:35 obesechicken13 wrote:
On December 16 2012 04:32 Seuss wrote:
On December 16 2012 03:21 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think DFG's actually a lot weaker now. It was way stronger before when it did 30+% health (or flat base) in damage.
Now it has a longer range, worse build path, less base damage, no scaling off AP, costs more, provides less gold in stats, and has damage amplification.

I don't think it's possible for the new DFG to provide more burst. Even assuming you 100-0 someone using the damage multiplication, the old DFG would have let you do the same thing since the bonus 20% damage can only apply on 85+% of your opponent's remaining life.

+ Show Spoiler [Spoilered for brevity.] +
Even after the range got buffed on DFG, I find that I still get within 600 range before I fire off DFG just so I can get my other skills and ignite off. So DFG got nerfed in every meaningful way.

Now DFG is in a spot where it's not worthy of a first buy, and isn't vital on every AP. I'm definitely not going to build it as much. I tried getting chalice on Veigar yesterday with mana regen runes, and I found that pre level 9 I had enough mana to constantly spam Q. Veigar's Q doesn't cost very much, or have a shorter cooldown until higher levels. I think I'll be going for chalice first in the future. The only problem is that Veigar can't push lanes so against anyone with a waveclear, I'd have been helpless to stop roaming. It's just an example, where, if I see my lane opponent is an Annie and also can't push, I'd consider picking Veigar, and not build DFG first. Veigar's Q passive gives too much free stats.

I think since for months deathcap was the goto first item on every AP, and most people even argued to go deathcap before DFG on Veigar in the Veigar thread, that there's a lot that this community doesn't know. Deathcap never got nerfed. But DFG and abyssal did.

Also it's really cool how a lot of items are no longer cost efficient in stats but provide a good active. DFG GA Mogs and shard of true ice being examples. I think this DoTA style is way better than just selling stats since it means that players have more chance of coming back if they use their items well.


Actually, the new DFG outperforms the old one in all but the ideal scenario for old DFG.

+ Show Spoiler [Math and Words] +
Old DFG there were essentially only two variables which affected its raw damage, the opponent's current health and your AP. If you assume you always use it on a full health target then it's pretty easy to assess its damage potential.

Enemy Maximum Health * (15% + 5%/100 AP * Your AP) = Raw Damage

New DFG is slightly more complicated because its effectiveness is based on the base damage and AP ratios of all magic damage abilities and items you can cram into the four second amplification period, in addition to the target's maximum health.

Enemy Maximum Health * 15% + (Base Damage + Your AP * Ratios) * 20% = Raw Damage

However, we can simplify the comparison because both items share Enemy Maximum Health * 15%. The equations to solve are therefore:

Enemy Maximum Health * 5%/100 AP * Your AP = Old DFG
(Base Damage + Your AP * Ratios) * 20% = New DFG

Now we're obviously going to have to make a lot of assumptions here as we have a lot of unknown variables. For the sake of this argument let's assume a 3000 Health target and 400 AP (a number which came up earlier in the thread). That leaves Base Damage and Ratios to be determined. There are going to vary wildly from champion to champion, so it's hard to know exactly what to put there. However, in general the total damage potential of a single AP carry's rotation is around 3.0. Thus we can solve for the necessary base damage to match old DFG.

3000 * 5%/100 AP * 400 AP = (Base Damage + 400 AP * 3.0) * 20%
3000 * 20% = (Base Damage + 1200) * 20%
3000 = Base Damage + 1200
1800 = Base Damage

So against a tank that's actually a lot of base damage. Some AP carries have that much base damage (e.g. Syndra, Veigar, LeBlanc) but not all.

However, we've intentionally ignored some differences between the two iterations of DFG. For one, how often did carries use old DFG on tanks at full health? Generally such a use would be wasteful as the tanks were rarely the critical target that needed to be burst down. Second, old DFG was a part of Season 2, where Magic Resistance was more plentiful and Force of Nature existed. The environment surrounding new DFG is different and plays to its favor. Finally, new DFG amplifying any incidental or focused damage on a target, which can amount to a significant amount depending on team composition.

The post of new DFG is blatantly obvious when you look past a scenario where you attempt to solo burst a tank at full health. Targeting a squishy, a tank or bruiser whose already taken damage, or working alongside an ally with magic damage will all thrust new DFG way ahead. A Leona without any AP brings enough magic damage to account for almost all of that seemingly difficult to reach 1800 Base Damage value by herself. Even an enemy carry with 2000 Health only requires 800 Base Damage for new DFG to match the old, a number pretty much every respectable AP carry easily surpasses by themselves. It only becomes easier if your champion makes use of items such as Gunblade or Lich Bane.


In short, the only situation where new DFG is worse than old DFG is this really weird case where you want to solo burst down an enemy tank who is at full health. In every other situation new DFG is equal or better than old DFG, and is blatantly better for assassination.

I was talking about the old old DFG that provided 30% of an enemy's current health in damage with no AP.


Even then the only case that really outshines the new DFG by any significant margin is attacking a tank at full health. The difference between what I calculated and what you're talking about is 9% Maximum Health, or 270 damage. That's significant, but it's not so much so that it overturns any of the points I made.

+ Show Spoiler [Spoilered for Length] +
Some problems I have with your analysis:
Considering how most games are short enough that IE appears in only 10% of games on lolking I'd say 400 ap is too high.
It's also weird to do analysis at level 18 when most solo queue games are decided well before then.

Some AP carries have that much base damage (e.g. Syndra, Veigar, LeBlanc) but not all

Neither Leblanc nor Veigar has such high base damage.
1080 Veigar
1097 Leblanc
I don't care about Syndra

A Leona without any AP brings enough magic damage to account for almost all of that seemingly difficult to reach 1800 Base Damage value by herself.

No she doesn't. Even if you assume she gets all 4 procs of her passive off from an ally she reaches 1550 damage. And that's a bit too optimistic. You can't really assume that every champion gets all their abilities off. Often Veigar and leblanc can only land Q and R.

You left out the 30% max health vs 15% current health completely from your analysis.
You left out stat efficiency completely from your analysis. You're paying 500 more gold for the passive on the new DFG.

I might have made a mistake here in my analysis. Please review.
If we assume 100,400 ap, and that the target squishy has 42 mr, and you have sorc boots and magic pen reds(8 magic pen) then the target has 14mr remaining. An "effective magic health" of 1.14*2000.

[image loading]
Things do sway more in the new DFG's favor if you do land more skills though. Also It is closer than I originally thought.
I only used Veigar's Q and R abilities though I really should have also included ignite at the very least.
I need to get laid.


To defend my analysis point by point:
  • The 400 AP number came from another poster who liked Season 2 DFG. In that light, examining numbers at level 18 made sense. It didn't have to be 400 AP, though it made the calculations a little easier, but I don't think you'll find comparisons at other stages of the game to be any more favorable for older versions of DFG.
  • You're correct that I overestimated the base damage values on Veigar and LeBlanc, though your numbers seem to undershoot their full potential.
  • 1550 is 86.1% of 1800, which I think is fair to describe as "almost all". It's an ideal case, but one made to illustrate a point about how quickly incidental damage can accumulate to new DFG's benefit.
  • The 30% versus 15% is entirely accounted for in my analysis. If you assume your target is at their maximum health both Season 2 and Season 3 DFG start at 15%, so that specific value cancels out of the equations. Season 1 DFG starts at 30% but only scales at 3.5% per 100 AP, so at the values I was comparing it only did 9% more damage (a fact I stated). In any case, it was all accounted for.
  • I obviously didn't bring cost efficiency into it, but with good reason. The environment in which new DFG exists is fundamentally different from that which any of the previous iterations did. Penetration mechanics, the amount of MR you can feasibly build, and item-based magic damage sources have all changed. As a result there is very limited value in direct cost-efficiency comparisons. It's much like this optical illusion, you have to go to a heck of a lot of effort to explain and account for context before you can compare them meaningfully.

It was not a perfect analysis, and that's not surprising considering I threw it together in approximately five minutes before rushing out the door to see the Hobbit. However, the core argument remains sound, new DFG is not substantially worse in the best cases for its predecessors, while matching and or surpassing them in a majority of other circumstances.

I actually expect this iteration of DFG to be nerfed, because like the older versions you long for it is fairly overpowered, just in a slightly different way.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35160 Posts
December 16 2012 08:59 GMT
#746
On December 16 2012 17:36 MooMooMugi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 17:32 Gahlo wrote:
On December 16 2012 17:21 Sufficiency wrote:
TSM.evo's problem was team synergy. I believe in regionals they could win all lanes against (?) curse, but faltered at teamfights.

I seem to be remembering it as they were all really into being on the team when it started, but due to the age of some people having to deal with highschool they couldn't get try hard enough in preparation before Aphromoo got bored and left. WoDx only joined because Aphromoo was there so after their S2 run was over he left. Then, with the 1 team/region rule for S3, there was nowhere to go from there.

Also they never ever ever practiced

Yeah, that's what I meant by the preparation part. Tired me does not vocalize well. ><
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
December 16 2012 09:02 GMT
#747
On December 16 2012 17:53 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 17:40 MooMooMugi wrote:
Voyboy taking all the limelight, no opportunity for Westrice


I wonder if Westrice would make a better support than Elementz.

Westrice did play support for a little when Elementz was in Canada for vacation for something, did okay and about the same level of play as Elementz did
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
December 16 2012 09:19 GMT
#748
On December 16 2012 17:28 sob3k wrote:
Wow, I decided to just play elise because she seemed so strong.

She is so good. My last like 15 games have been like 6-1, 9-3, 11-2, 7-1, I am just destroying.

Her jungle is SO STRONG! I actually think she is one of the fastest junglers in the game. She can take a buff in about 3 seconds. The AP spirit stone item is bonkers on her.

She can also 1v1 anyone and her ganks are absurd because she can gap close or dive from fucking 1075 range.

She DEFINITELY has a pretty severe learning curve, but as i play her more I am just doing better and better, I've made some obscene plays on her.

She's just got everything: really nice long poke, absurd burst damage and executions, longest gap closer in the game, a long range stun, AND sustained damage+AOE for clearing. Plus she has 3 different was to get vision: explosive spiderling, her stun, and her rappel.

Biggest mistake I see people is to level W over Q for jungling, it is NOT worth the damage and burst you lose, she clears excellently with it maxed second. I've tried it both ways and she is SO much stronger with Q>W. Correct usage of the execution in spider form makes for ultra fast camp clearing and is MASSIVELY better in ganks than W. The amount of damage you can do with a spider form Q is hilarious when you prioritize the skill.


i love elise, she's in my top three fav champs, but i only really play her top

do you just open machete and go WQWE then R>Q>W>E ?
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 16 2012 09:27 GMT
#749
On December 16 2012 17:40 MooMooMugi wrote:
Voyboy taking all the limelight, no opportunity for Westrice

Meh, I'm not impressed with voyboys play on Curse, sure it was a step up from CLG, and Crs became better for it, but his level of play is still pretty meh. (though it looks like he's adapting to 1v2 lane situations really well).

it's just sort of a shame that akali wasn't stronger, otherwise westrice would be starter, npnp.
liftlift > tsm
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-16 09:56:05
December 16 2012 09:32 GMT
#750
Alright, just throwing my hat into DFG debate with the one champion I build DFG on: 2x games on TF, where I went 2x dorans -> sorcs ->DFG and 1x dorans -> DFG -> Sorcs

Game 1:DFG finished at 18:00

Stats:

Level 13
172 AP
Level 5 Q/W 260+45+(+89)(+181)
Level 1 E 55(+69)
Total: 699 magic damage

Game 2:

DFG finished at 14:20

Stats:
154 AP
Level 11
Level 5 Q 260(+100)
Level 3 W 30 (+83) (+62)
Level 1 E 55 +(62)

Total: 652 magic damage

Typical usage scenario: Engage/get engaged on, DFG-> gold -> wild cards -> E proc within the 4 second window
Base skill damage for level 11 TF is pretty fixed from 9-13, I'll use 675. The average bottom laner has ~1.2k health, solos have 1.5-1.8k at this point in the game.
DFG will do 180-270 magic damage, depending on the target, the additional magic damage from skills is amplified to ~810 damage. DFG alone does 315-405 damage. It's worth up to 280 AP worth of damage on TF, something that cannot be acquired that early in the game reasonably.

On the other hand, pre-patch DFG (80 AP, 15% CDR OP as balls patch) would do 560 damage to a 1.8k health target, 370 to a 1.2k target.

I'm not taking into account MR since it doesn't affect the calculation but overall it's weaker than the previous iterations, at least on TF. It's still far stronger than a deathcap against a single target and CDR is worth a lot on most APs. Build as you like but I'm going to continue to build DFG first on roam heavy mid laners.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 16 2012 09:46 GMT
#751
It's categorically weaker for solo kills. That was the intention. It's also meant to be stronger when your team has secondary sources of magic damage.
Moderator
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
December 16 2012 09:48 GMT
#752
On December 16 2012 18:19 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 17:28 sob3k wrote:
Wow, I decided to just play elise because she seemed so strong.

She is so good. My last like 15 games have been like 6-1, 9-3, 11-2, 7-1, I am just destroying.

Her jungle is SO STRONG! I actually think she is one of the fastest junglers in the game. She can take a buff in about 3 seconds. The AP spirit stone item is bonkers on her.

She can also 1v1 anyone and her ganks are absurd because she can gap close or dive from fucking 1075 range.

She DEFINITELY has a pretty severe learning curve, but as i play her more I am just doing better and better, I've made some obscene plays on her.

She's just got everything: really nice long poke, absurd burst damage and executions, longest gap closer in the game, a long range stun, AND sustained damage+AOE for clearing. Plus she has 3 different was to get vision: explosive spiderling, her stun, and her rappel.

Biggest mistake I see people is to level W over Q for jungling, it is NOT worth the damage and burst you lose, she clears excellently with it maxed second. I've tried it both ways and she is SO much stronger with Q>W. Correct usage of the execution in spider form makes for ultra fast camp clearing and is MASSIVELY better in ganks than W. The amount of damage you can do with a spider form Q is hilarious when you prioritize the skill.


i love elise, she's in my top three fav champs, but i only really play her top

do you just open machete and go WQWE then R>Q>W>E ?


Machete, WQQE, no joke, it's not worth it to sacrifice the burst power of Q for clear speed IMO. Her clear is already plenty fast enough to run out of jungle and you wont get to use W barely at all in ganks, probably only get 2-3 hits in as they are running because you won't have any way to stick on them and you may not even have boots at this point. The ability to also just rappel in on someone weak and know you can just execute them is a huge difference. The AP Spirit stone recipe is the way to go also, much stronger than wriggles.

A thing I also just realized that made my ganks far stronger is after you combo someone and they are running or dash/flash away after your spider Q (which is about when your stun wears off), to not pop Rappel immediately and dive them. Instead just follow them while waiting for your Q CD and keeping them within rappel range, then the second Q is almost up you can Rappel in and QRQW them for an easy kill and not worry about chasing them around under tower trying to get hits in. Much safer and better.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
December 16 2012 09:53 GMT
#753
yeah that's a good point about waiting for the Q, i need to remember to do that when i'm playing top spider as well

i always forget to shift back into human and Q for the kill when they're at a sliver and kiting me past their tower
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Phunkapotamus
Profile Joined April 2010
United States496 Posts
December 16 2012 09:58 GMT
#754
On December 16 2012 18:19 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 17:28 sob3k wrote:
Wow, I decided to just play elise because she seemed so strong.

She is so good. My last like 15 games have been like 6-1, 9-3, 11-2, 7-1, I am just destroying.

Her jungle is SO STRONG! I actually think she is one of the fastest junglers in the game. She can take a buff in about 3 seconds. The AP spirit stone item is bonkers on her.

She can also 1v1 anyone and her ganks are absurd because she can gap close or dive from fucking 1075 range.

She DEFINITELY has a pretty severe learning curve, but as i play her more I am just doing better and better, I've made some obscene plays on her.

She's just got everything: really nice long poke, absurd burst damage and executions, longest gap closer in the game, a long range stun, AND sustained damage+AOE for clearing. Plus she has 3 different was to get vision: explosive spiderling, her stun, and her rappel.

Biggest mistake I see people is to level W over Q for jungling, it is NOT worth the damage and burst you lose, she clears excellently with it maxed second. I've tried it both ways and she is SO much stronger with Q>W. Correct usage of the execution in spider form makes for ultra fast camp clearing and is MASSIVELY better in ganks than W. The amount of damage you can do with a spider form Q is hilarious when you prioritize the skill.


i love elise, she's in my top three fav champs, but i only really play her top

do you just open machete and go WQWE then R>Q>W>E ?


What runes/masteries. Machete is almost overkill for her jungle she's so fast.
"Do a barrel roll"
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
December 16 2012 10:10 GMT
#755
Just intrigued me, some mathcrafting on DFG

If you have decent AP ratios, say 2.5, with 1.5 of that being available 8 seconds later. 175 AP with DFG, 245 with dcap, 70 AP difference. You do 175 with your initial combo, 280 more over the next 10 seconds in pure damage. At this point you're just barely breaking even with a dfg against a very low health single target.

If 2 skills are AoE and hit 2 targets each with an AP ratio of 1.5, you do ~500 damage , 220 of which is on someone other than your main target. This damage also hits later than the secondary wave of skills due to the 15% cdr difference.

I'd argue that DFG rushing is again, far better than dcap rushing on any AP that currently has a dcap first mentality.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-16 10:21:27
December 16 2012 10:20 GMT
#756
On December 16 2012 18:58 Phunkapotamus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 18:19 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
On December 16 2012 17:28 sob3k wrote:
Wow, I decided to just play elise because she seemed so strong.

She is so good. My last like 15 games have been like 6-1, 9-3, 11-2, 7-1, I am just destroying.

Her jungle is SO STRONG! I actually think she is one of the fastest junglers in the game. She can take a buff in about 3 seconds. The AP spirit stone item is bonkers on her.

She can also 1v1 anyone and her ganks are absurd because she can gap close or dive from fucking 1075 range.

She DEFINITELY has a pretty severe learning curve, but as i play her more I am just doing better and better, I've made some obscene plays on her.

She's just got everything: really nice long poke, absurd burst damage and executions, longest gap closer in the game, a long range stun, AND sustained damage+AOE for clearing. Plus she has 3 different was to get vision: explosive spiderling, her stun, and her rappel.

Biggest mistake I see people is to level W over Q for jungling, it is NOT worth the damage and burst you lose, she clears excellently with it maxed second. I've tried it both ways and she is SO much stronger with Q>W. Correct usage of the execution in spider form makes for ultra fast camp clearing and is MASSIVELY better in ganks than W. The amount of damage you can do with a spider form Q is hilarious when you prioritize the skill.


i love elise, she's in my top three fav champs, but i only really play her top

do you just open machete and go WQWE then R>Q>W>E ?


What runes/masteries. Machete is almost overkill for her jungle she's so fast.


idk what i would use jungle, top i use mpen red/quint, mr blue, armor yellow but in jungle...spen red armor yellow, scaling ap blue flat ap quint?
masteries 9-21-0 with spen in offense and the usual jungle shit in defense
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Thermia
Profile Joined August 2010
United States866 Posts
December 16 2012 10:22 GMT
#757
On December 16 2012 17:53 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 17:40 MooMooMugi wrote:
Voyboy taking all the limelight, no opportunity for Westrice


I wonder if Westrice would make a better support than Elementz.



Played against him and Cop in solo queue, he was pretty terrible at it but maybe that was just a bad game.
Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling. IGN: Mierin
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-16 10:52:09
December 16 2012 10:50 GMT
#758
I guess it could be real.

[image loading]
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-16 10:52:31
December 16 2012 10:52 GMT
#759
On December 16 2012 18:58 Phunkapotamus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 18:19 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
On December 16 2012 17:28 sob3k wrote:
Wow, I decided to just play elise because she seemed so strong.

She is so good. My last like 15 games have been like 6-1, 9-3, 11-2, 7-1, I am just destroying.

Her jungle is SO STRONG! I actually think she is one of the fastest junglers in the game. She can take a buff in about 3 seconds. The AP spirit stone item is bonkers on her.

She can also 1v1 anyone and her ganks are absurd because she can gap close or dive from fucking 1075 range.

She DEFINITELY has a pretty severe learning curve, but as i play her more I am just doing better and better, I've made some obscene plays on her.

She's just got everything: really nice long poke, absurd burst damage and executions, longest gap closer in the game, a long range stun, AND sustained damage+AOE for clearing. Plus she has 3 different was to get vision: explosive spiderling, her stun, and her rappel.

Biggest mistake I see people is to level W over Q for jungling, it is NOT worth the damage and burst you lose, she clears excellently with it maxed second. I've tried it both ways and she is SO much stronger with Q>W. Correct usage of the execution in spider form makes for ultra fast camp clearing and is MASSIVELY better in ganks than W. The amount of damage you can do with a spider form Q is hilarious when you prioritize the skill.


i love elise, she's in my top three fav champs, but i only really play her top

do you just open machete and go WQWE then R>Q>W>E ?


What runes/masteries. Machete is almost overkill for her jungle she's so fast.


This is what I run on Jungle elise, went for the bladed armor just for the first clear or two to speed things as after that you just tear through and nothing really matters
[image loading]

For runes I run Mpen red, Armor yellow, MR Blue, Ap quints.

She has been very smooth in the jungle for me with this setup.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Leonite7
Profile Joined July 2011
Ireland921 Posts
December 16 2012 10:52 GMT
#760
Fucking LeakBelter. Just throwing that info around.
Prev 1 36 37 38 39 40 451 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech70
UpATreeSC 52
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4221
Mini 1866
Leta 367
Stork 232
sSak 195
ToSsGirL 108
Sharp 48
soO 42
NaDa 23
Noble 19
[ Show more ]
yabsab 14
Shine 14
HiyA 10
Hyun 5
Liquid`Ret 1
Dota 2
Cr1tdota823
NeuroSwarm159
ODPixel152
boxi9850
XcaliburYe50
League of Legends
JimRising 478
Counter-Strike
olofmeister779
shoxiejesuss685
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King69
Other Games
summit1g8993
singsing1669
ceh9518
C9.Mang0286
XaKoH 214
Pyrionflax158
rGuardiaN33
ArmadaUGS17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick536
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 42
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1184
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1h 3m
Map Test Tournament
2h 3m
Wardi Open
1d 2h
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
Safe House 2
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
Dewalt vs kogeT
JDConan vs Tarson
RaNgeD vs DragOn
StRyKeR vs Bonyth
Aeternum vs Hejek
Replay Cast
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-25
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Acropolis #4 - TS2
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
Frag Blocktober 2025
Urban Riga Open #1
FERJEE Rush 2025
Birch Cup 2025
DraculaN #2
LanDaLan #3
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2025-26
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
WardiTV TLMC #15
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.