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Do you think overall your approach was a success?
I didn't do anything I regret (except for the end result, obviously), but if both Spaghetticus and I had been available for three hours before lynch we might have made a lot more of the day. If we'd had a more serious second case going that would have been preferable, but obviously I can't drive two wagons at once.
Did Spaghetticus stick out like a sore thumb to you; or do you think you were lured towards his path?
Well, most people had town reads on him, so I don't think anyone lured me there. Like I said, the combination of his large volume of posts and his small amount of hunting was what grabbed me.
Speaking of which, I think everyone should take a look at their town reads and think "is this person's contribution helping us to find scum?". For me that's easy: I don't have any meaningful town reads.
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Mocsta, I don't think you ever got around to saying what your read on Shz is. Could you quote it or make it?
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Alright, so I'm finally back able to play this more seriously, I'm still 7 pages behind in posts, so I'll read up first, but I just want to first post to apologize for being fairly inactive due my schedule over the last 2 days, but now I'm on break and ready to go 
Will post again after I read the posts, and if anyone needs any answers from me in the meantime, feel free to post it up while I read.
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Alright, so to get more conversation going I'm going to go over pretty much everything I believe we've learned from D1.
Reads
I'll start off with Corazon. After re-reading everything he's said a few times I believe I owe him an apology. As he defended Spag while the vote was on him I'm willing to say I believe he is town. He stuck with his vote on Theesr the entire time. I am willing to overlook every mistake up to this point in his posting and trust that what ever he says from now on is from the mouth of a townie.
I believe strong town reads are Mocsta, Chromatically, and Aquanim.
If Aquanim were scum, he didn't need to try to get Spag lynched to save Corazon, as Corazon defended Spag and imo proved his innocence. If Aqua were scum he could have sat back and let us lynch Cora. - same thing happens N1 but his name isn't out there for starting the lynch. For this I believe Aqua is town.
FC's actions at the end of D1 still throw me off a little bit. On one hand he's defending him (much too late) and if he were scum and knew Spag would turn up town it would make it easy for him to try and give a last minute case about why he thinks he's innocent. Hard to tell as he makes a few good points as well. He also tried to defend Corazon when nobody else would. Makes it much harder for me to call him scum now.
Theesr moves to my #1 scum read as even during the lynch of Spag he really doesn't seem to care. I believe he even says at one point he doesn't care. Again I owe an apology to Corazon as I believe he might be right in thinking Theesr is Scum or possible SK.
Shz fits into a middle ground for me. I am neutral about him for the time being. I'll need to look through the filter again.
with them gone the people I really have trouble marking come out.
Orange, Kick, Cakepie, and Sylencia. I'll enjoy having Sylencia around more often now and it should bring some more insight on him but I find it incredibly hard to read the other three and can't tell if they represent town or scum at all.
TL:DR sorry Cora, I believe you are town along with Mocsta, Aqua, Chrom, and maybe shz/fc
Aqua I think you should look this over and see if it makes sense to you. Moc/Chrom/shz/cora as well. I believe if we use D1 as any indicator we can assume this to be correct.
I admit I was wrong about Corazon after reading through everything again and thinking about it for awhile. Hopefully we can move on and get some of these lurkers out in the open
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On December 21 2012 18:04 Aquanim wrote:
Mocsta, I don't think you ever got around to saying what your read on Shz is. Could you quote it or make it?
Noted.
I will have your answer by end of night.
I am goign to follow Cakepie suggestion and hold off till a bit later.
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@Omni
Elaborate on Mocsta?
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Could I get some clarification on the reasoning behind holding off? I don't completely understand why it would be helpful.
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Most things can wait to be said until just before the day begins, so mafia don't get to use whatever information we reveal to inform their decisions.
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no problem Chrom, I think Mocsta has been fairly good at posting his reasons and logic behind most of his moves so far in this game. He's posted a lot and I can't really say much of it has seemed scummy. He's also agreed with and worked with Aqua on some cases which could be him trying to hitch a ride but at the moment I have no reason to doubt him and there is a LOT to go through and still not have any solid scum reads on him.
He generally feeds off what other people say and starts conversations with them to try and scum hunt without leading a player in a direction which I also think is a pretty big sign of a helpful townie.
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Couldn't the same be said for scum and possible blue roles? And what's the difference between information revealed earlier as opposed to later? It's revealed regardless.
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On December 21 2012 19:48 OmniEulogy wrote:
...
I do not mean this to be facetious; however
I was genuinely not expecting that type of post from you.
Its thrown a spanner in the works for me.
I am going to have to digest this before jumping to a conclusion.
Man I wish this wasn't Friday night, will look into it when I get home 
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On December 21 2012 20:58 Chromatically wrote:
@Omni
Elaborate on Mocsta?
LOL!
@Omni
Elaborate on Chromatically.
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Alright, I've caught up to an extent, and I am pretty surprised to see so many people change their votes to Spag in the final 12 hours of the first day. At the present moment, I'm simply going through the possible ways in which we can use the vote count in our favour for finding the scum, since it's extremely unlikely that the mafia could cruise control to a free mislynch, there had to be some sort of bandwagoning happening.
Also note that this doesn't mean I'm implicating Corazon as scum, as what Omni says does make sense, but I'm not going as far as to say he is 100% town.
For the previous day, we have ourselves 7/13 (or 12 if you exclude Spag himself) people voting for Spag. Along the way, what we can take away from this is that there are scum scattered around this vote. The exact number is of course unknown, but to get the ball rolling it wouldn't be unreasonable to say there was at least 2 members voting for Spag here.
Spaghetticus (7): Aquanim, OmniEulogy, Mocsta, cakepie, Kickstart, Chromatically, shz
I've split the votes into 3 groups, the first 3, the next 2 and the final 2.
To start with the final 2 votes:
These final 2 votes were essentially making the lynch guaranteed, they could have stayed with their original vote, but decided to move over for their own reasons.
shz: Very willingly bandwagoned both his votes on cora and Spag, very little analysis behind the reasoning other than not liking spag's defense, a little shady in my eyes, since Cora has quite a high chance of being town, and Spag being confirmed town.
Chrom: Listed out his suspicions, but then also bandwagons onto Spag, only saying that the points were already raised by others, though there is a small explanation after. Still keeping my eye out, but isn't so bad.
From the middle 2, the fact this area is where the balance of the votes changes, it's likely that at least one of the three could be scum.
Kickstart: Hard to say, since it's a complete opposite to last game where he posted a lot and was very active, he did make a case, but it didn't really cover too much new information it was the same as what Aqua already said, just reflavoured.
Cake: Reasonable points raised, only concern is the really weird part in the middle:
On December 21 2012 02:52 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 23:54 Chromatically wrote:
If y'all won't go for FatChunk, though, I'm willing to go for Spag.
Let's do this thing for reals.
Being the fourth vote, having Chrom move to Spag would pretty much call for a death sentence, since I was not around and Spag won't vote for himself meaning it would be a 5/11 vote count. Other than that, looks quite constructive and open with information.
From the two in the middle, I would definitely say that Kick is on my watchlist, and while I'm not entirely sure on cake, I am inclined to say he is more likely to be town.
First 3 - set the ball in action:
Aqua - While I don't agree that posting rationally is scum, I think most of the points found were legitimate, and could've easily convinced me. In addition, Aqua is putting his neck on the line changing his vote from Cora to Spag. Only reasons to do this are:
a) Legitimately believed he found the right tells
b) Plan on voting Cora (implying he is also scum) but hoping the votes didn't roll in backfired - only considered because the vote was dropped so so early on.
Plan b would be a really radical move to do, and I would believe in option A more, and so I'm more inclined to believe he has a higher chance of being town.
Omni: So confused. If you were adamant about Cora being scum why would you go and change your vote? In my mind it makes little sense because the way you voted for Spag made it seem like you disregarded your strong thoughts on Cora and just moved straight onto Spag because he didn't rebound from Aqua's claims too well. Just stick to your reads because the reasons behind your vote on Spag were way too speculative compared to what you thought about Cora.
Mocsta: Well thought out arguments, and during the day was bringing up a lot of discussion points, I like to think of Moc as more of a townie than scum at the moment.
Now - naturally this list might not actually say too much but I am going to say that it is VERY unlikely for there to be (7+Spag)/9-10 townies vote for an innocent player. There had to be some manipulation going on in, it is just a matter of finding out who.
If I had to list my two suspicions from the list - I would say I am suspecting Kickstart and Omni. There is something extra about Omni which doesn't feel right, I'm not completely sure what it is but I feel like there's something there.
I'll post about the non-voters next, but this one took me a lot longer since I got distracted by 2 games of dota..
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I feel like you two are having a conversation through me. lol
For very similar reasons as you Mocsta I believe Chrom is town. He was the one who originally made the case against Corazon which at that point was the correct move imo. He advanced our conversations and gave us a lot of information, even with this lynch it has still been helpful in clearing some of the confusion I had after I went over all of the posts. He pressures well, he asks good questions. and again there is a lot to go through but I couldn't find any real scum tells. He made his major cases against FC and Cora and they were both very well thought out imo. Very easy to see him as town at this point.
and idk if I take offense to that or not Mocsta but if you see an error in the way I've said I see things please let me know. That goes for anybody.
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ah and Sylencia I'll say this right away, I voted on Spag and expected myself to change back to Corazon but found he defended himself so poorly that the vote stuck. I used the vote as pressure to try and get him to post something better and I've actually thought of posting this previously but in hindsight I should have just FoS'd him and we might not have lynched him as quickly as we did.
You are absolutely right though. I was intending to switch my vote back to Cora after Spag cleared himself because until that point I hadn't actually thought of him as scummy in the least. but I said it a few times, Aqua's case was much stronger than Spag's defense in my eyes.
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On December 21 2012 21:23 Orangeremi wrote:
Couldn't the same be said for scum and possible blue roles? And what's the difference between information revealed earlier as opposed to later? It's revealed regardless.
I do not mean this to be facetious; however
I was genuinely not expecting that type of post from you.
Its thrown a spanner in the works for me.
I am going to have to digest this before jumping to a conclusion.
[Sarcasm is not intended]
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This is a SERIOUS question
Do you think there is a difference between a scum read and a scum tell?
I do.
But I would love to hear the perspective of others first.
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EBWOP
@ALL
This is a SERIOUS question
Do you think there is a difference between a scum read and a scum tell?
I do.
But I would love to hear the perspective of others first.
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As far as I know a scum tell is when they slip up, a scum read is based on opinion/fact revolving around what they post and what you think of it. basically I think of a tell as something more definite.
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I think a scum read is based on the way someone behaves and interpreting it as being suspicious whereas a scum tell is like a read but it's more or less accepted in the community as being a misplay that reveals your role. That includes what they say/let slip that could reveal their role.
I think I worded that kinda bad, since it sounded right in my mind but it looks awkward here but I dunno how to really explain what I'm thinking...
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EPT
