• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:03
CEST 09:03
KST 16:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun11[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists21[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) ASL21 General Discussion [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review Missed out on ASL tickets - what are my options?
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2847 users

Balance patch this week - Hellbats nerfed, Banshees buffed…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1080 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 55 Next
TripleSec
Profile Joined May 2011
Hungary11 Posts
July 09 2013 10:24 GMT
#581
I look forward to Banshee buff effects, so GL HF !
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:43:10
July 09 2013 10:29 GMT
#582
On July 09 2013 18:48 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 18:02 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 17:47 Rabiator wrote:
Hellbat change wont matter much, because the "problem" of the Hellbat drop is that it costs almost nothing and you can lose 3-4 double Medivac drops and only deal the decisive economic blow with the 5th drop anyways. Sooo ... people will just save up the Medivacs and Hellbats until blue flame is done researching and then go with 4-5 Medivacs at the same time.

Power Overwhelming!

The Hellbat change isnt a "fix of the issue" but rather only a delay ... and since the time doesnt really matter that much (because they are just as efficient later on and players wont have built more static defenses anyways) the effect will be just the same.


I called you out on another balance thread, and I'll do here as well. You called me an arrogant asshole for that matter for calling you out, but the reality is, you don't understand the game at the level you need to, to actually make a qualified post. While the hellbat drops were dangerous for Protoss and Zerg, they were no where near balance breaking or game deciding and eventually, defending the hellbat drops with killing the medivac/hellbats leaves Terran actually far behind, but a player like you will never understand, because they overcommit to defence.

Queens are actually a very good call as they are powerful against medivacs and hellbats, they can transfuse the static defence as well. If you go hellbat drops and commit (aka lose the medivac) you will end up way behind. IF you don't commit and save everything, you dealt minimal damage. The marauder/hellbat timing that can follow is strong, but certainly not unbeatable especially when scouted and ling/bane or roach/bane can defend it.

If you defend that timing, Terran is more than just behind. I don't even want to start on TvP .



So why did Moonglade lose that game after Sound lost FOUR DOUBLE-Medivac-Hellbat drops without achieving too much? By your definition Sound should have been MILES behind because of the HUGE investment.

Oh and I called you arrogant because you said that balance should only be done for the top half of the progamers and "tough luck for the rest of the players, sucks to be you. Have fun playing an unbalanced game." (more or less).


Considering he had an overlord to give vision on the blindspot, he should have put two spore to block the most direct route to the mineral line initially. He held off the second push quite well and didn't do so well on the third, Moonglade also gambled on doing enough damage on the counter with ling/bling/muta on sound's 3rd base..

The defensive turrets by Sound is excellently placed, fending off the muta from entering the main base, see 12:29, with just three turret, cuts off 12 mutas from entering the top left corner base. this is what I've been harping about.
Good placement of turrets pay for themselves, allowing you to focus on army placement and force expensive trade off for an opponent.

Get your static defensive network up!

And Moonglade didn't trade very well thereafter. I mean at 16:20 he had banked 1K minerals but couldn't find 450 minerals to put up 3 spore colonies to cover the 2nd bottom base. I mean come on...
Cauterize the area
p1oneer
Profile Joined April 2011
Latvia50 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:31:47
July 09 2013 10:30 GMT
#583
Those hellbats are keeping me so angry... Reason is that WHY ARE THEY being healed by medivacs?!?!?!? vikings can be transformed, can be transported in medivacs, but not healed, so what is the difference? hellions cant be and hellbats can? this just makes no sense. hellbats healed by medivacs are retrieving their health faster than siege tank in a siege mode shoots. thats so stupid. Seeing mech TvT with medivacs healing mech unit.... Watching OSL now bbyong vs innovation. And the point is this patch want change mech TvT at all. Maybe it was better to turn of ability to be healed for hellbats? This would change other match-ups as well. What u guys think?
p1oneer
Profile Joined April 2011
Latvia50 Posts
July 09 2013 10:34 GMT
#584
and why the hell light mech unit like Hellbat can burn the tank? Tanks are almost not used in all match-ups. That is another point to think about
ShroudeD
Profile Joined August 2012
Greece1333 Posts
July 09 2013 10:35 GMT
#585
I'm gonna 2 starport banshee every game now
Mvp,Fantasy 4ever
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:36 GMT
#586
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
July 09 2013 10:37 GMT
#587
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 10:38 GMT
#588
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


I don't think we will see hellbat from now on in any matchup, unless someone goes mech, or maybe in the lategame.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
July 09 2013 10:39 GMT
#589
172 HARDCORE terran players who vote for "I only like the banshee" thats the best in whole poll haha
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:39 GMT
#590
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.
NOFX
Profile Joined April 2013
France32 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:40:51
July 09 2013 10:40 GMT
#591
On July 09 2013 19:30 p1oneer wrote:
Those hellbats are keeping me so angry... Reason is that WHY ARE THEY being healed by medivacs?!?!?!? vikings can be transformed, can be transported in medivacs, but not healed, so what is the difference? hellions cant be and hellbats can? this just makes no sense. hellbats healed by medivacs are retrieving their health faster than siege tank in a siege mode shoots. thats so stupid. Seeing mech TvT with medivacs healing mech unit.... Watching OSL now bbyong vs innovation. And the point is this patch want change mech TvT at all. Maybe it was better to turn of ability to be healed for hellbats? This would change other match-ups as well. What u guys think?


I totally agree that the problem is not the damage output of the hellbat, but the synergy between the super mobility of new medivac and their healing. This is just too much. But early TvT will be a bit better anyway. Cannot be worst.

The good thing to me is that mech players will get blue flame everytime now, and it now makes more sense to make transformation servo or whatever it's called, blue flame hellion run bys will be way more present I guess =)

I'm not really happy about the buff they made on the banshee though, this won't change anything in TvZ/TvP, and the fact that banshee cloack is now possible on one gas, scouting will be more based on luck in TvT.

Wait and see.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
July 09 2013 10:42 GMT
#592
On July 09 2013 19:39 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.


I don't play timings, so I cannot tell you , sorry
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 10:42 GMT
#593
On July 09 2013 19:39 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.


Then you may want to look into banshee/hellion. especially after this patch.
iyasq8
Profile Joined December 2012
113 Posts
July 09 2013 10:58 GMT
#594
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????
Piece
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:58 GMT
#595
Also prepare to a ton of zerg whine. They are not used to this new hellion banshee harass, and it will take time for them to adjust. And we all know what they do during that time :p..
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
July 09 2013 10:59 GMT
#596
On July 09 2013 19:58 iyasq8 wrote:
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????

If only you could sacrifice Overlords, or even research Over speed at hatch tech.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 11:07 GMT
#597
On July 09 2013 19:58 iyasq8 wrote:
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????


the exactly same way you are scouting banshee's right now, because nothing changes apart from it being cheaper?
Napoleon53
Profile Joined January 2010
Denmark167 Posts
July 09 2013 11:18 GMT
#598
On July 09 2013 19:39 Drake wrote:
172 HARDCORE terran players who vote for "I only like the banshee" thats the best in whole poll haha

Im a terranplayer who dont like the hellbat nerf. I think it is too soft. I would rather prefer something like less HP, no medivac healing, or even slower movement speed. I dont think the damage nerf is enough. But I guess time will tell...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 09 2013 11:19 GMT
#599
On July 09 2013 19:12 PanzerElite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 18:57 [F_]aths wrote:
On July 09 2013 18:50 PanzerElite wrote:
TvT was developing fine, this is just stupid and it brings back rock/paper/scissors in TvT. And Banshee rushers were scum of the universe in Wol imo. And Hellbat marauder allins also get nerfed, which is silly because the game was already balanced.

I hope terran winrates drop hard so that we get a good buff instead of a useless banshee in TvP and TvZ.
I hope that one day players will start to use the game they have instead of wanting rule change to buff their race.


WOULD MAKE SENSE IF we wouldn't get a stupid nerf.

Well stop having units that need to be nerfed and buffed. God.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Lock0n
Profile Joined December 2012
United Kingdom184 Posts
July 09 2013 11:30 GMT
#600
Once hellbats are nerfed, TvT will go from being a tense and explosive matchup with hellbat drops, to a long and drawn out turtle fest. This nerf will add 10 mins to an average TvT game, and will be much more boring if you ask me.
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 55 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech133
Nina 121
Livibee 86
StarCraft: Brood War
Mind 1107
Killer 481
Hm[arnc] 451
Pusan 357
yabsab 43
Bale 26
ZergMaN 17
NotJumperer 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Icarus 7
[ Show more ]
Nal_rA 6
Stork 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever711
NeuroSwarm164
League of Legends
JimRising 721
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1447
Other Games
summit1g6685
WinterStarcraft582
C9.Mang0528
Sick256
Happy11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick509
BasetradeTV179
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream123
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo979
• Stunt452
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 57m
Escore
2h 57m
INu's Battles
3h 57m
Classic vs ByuN
SHIN vs ByuN
OSC
5h 57m
Big Brain Bouts
8h 57m
Replay Cast
16h 57m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
RSL Revival
1d 2h
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
1d 3h
IPSL
1d 8h
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 11h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
IPSL
2 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
5 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
6 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-29
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.