• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:56
CEST 20:56
KST 03:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?1Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris44Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! 2024/25 Off-Season Roster Moves
Tourneys
Monday Nights Weeklies LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris 🏆 GTL Season 2 – StarCraft II Team League $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game Starcraft at lower levels TvP ASL20 General Discussion Easiest luckies way to get out of Asl groups
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! Small VOD Thread 2.0 Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 710 users

Balance patch this week - Hellbats nerfed, Banshees buffed…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1080 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 55 Next
TripleSec
Profile Joined May 2011
Hungary11 Posts
July 09 2013 10:24 GMT
#581
I look forward to Banshee buff effects, so GL HF !
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:43:10
July 09 2013 10:29 GMT
#582
On July 09 2013 18:48 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 18:02 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 17:47 Rabiator wrote:
Hellbat change wont matter much, because the "problem" of the Hellbat drop is that it costs almost nothing and you can lose 3-4 double Medivac drops and only deal the decisive economic blow with the 5th drop anyways. Sooo ... people will just save up the Medivacs and Hellbats until blue flame is done researching and then go with 4-5 Medivacs at the same time.

Power Overwhelming!

The Hellbat change isnt a "fix of the issue" but rather only a delay ... and since the time doesnt really matter that much (because they are just as efficient later on and players wont have built more static defenses anyways) the effect will be just the same.


I called you out on another balance thread, and I'll do here as well. You called me an arrogant asshole for that matter for calling you out, but the reality is, you don't understand the game at the level you need to, to actually make a qualified post. While the hellbat drops were dangerous for Protoss and Zerg, they were no where near balance breaking or game deciding and eventually, defending the hellbat drops with killing the medivac/hellbats leaves Terran actually far behind, but a player like you will never understand, because they overcommit to defence.

Queens are actually a very good call as they are powerful against medivacs and hellbats, they can transfuse the static defence as well. If you go hellbat drops and commit (aka lose the medivac) you will end up way behind. IF you don't commit and save everything, you dealt minimal damage. The marauder/hellbat timing that can follow is strong, but certainly not unbeatable especially when scouted and ling/bane or roach/bane can defend it.

If you defend that timing, Terran is more than just behind. I don't even want to start on TvP .



So why did Moonglade lose that game after Sound lost FOUR DOUBLE-Medivac-Hellbat drops without achieving too much? By your definition Sound should have been MILES behind because of the HUGE investment.

Oh and I called you arrogant because you said that balance should only be done for the top half of the progamers and "tough luck for the rest of the players, sucks to be you. Have fun playing an unbalanced game." (more or less).


Considering he had an overlord to give vision on the blindspot, he should have put two spore to block the most direct route to the mineral line initially. He held off the second push quite well and didn't do so well on the third, Moonglade also gambled on doing enough damage on the counter with ling/bling/muta on sound's 3rd base..

The defensive turrets by Sound is excellently placed, fending off the muta from entering the main base, see 12:29, with just three turret, cuts off 12 mutas from entering the top left corner base. this is what I've been harping about.
Good placement of turrets pay for themselves, allowing you to focus on army placement and force expensive trade off for an opponent.

Get your static defensive network up!

And Moonglade didn't trade very well thereafter. I mean at 16:20 he had banked 1K minerals but couldn't find 450 minerals to put up 3 spore colonies to cover the 2nd bottom base. I mean come on...
Cauterize the area
p1oneer
Profile Joined April 2011
Latvia50 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:31:47
July 09 2013 10:30 GMT
#583
Those hellbats are keeping me so angry... Reason is that WHY ARE THEY being healed by medivacs?!?!?!? vikings can be transformed, can be transported in medivacs, but not healed, so what is the difference? hellions cant be and hellbats can? this just makes no sense. hellbats healed by medivacs are retrieving their health faster than siege tank in a siege mode shoots. thats so stupid. Seeing mech TvT with medivacs healing mech unit.... Watching OSL now bbyong vs innovation. And the point is this patch want change mech TvT at all. Maybe it was better to turn of ability to be healed for hellbats? This would change other match-ups as well. What u guys think?
p1oneer
Profile Joined April 2011
Latvia50 Posts
July 09 2013 10:34 GMT
#584
and why the hell light mech unit like Hellbat can burn the tank? Tanks are almost not used in all match-ups. That is another point to think about
ShroudeD
Profile Joined August 2012
Greece1333 Posts
July 09 2013 10:35 GMT
#585
I'm gonna 2 starport banshee every game now
Mvp,Fantasy 4ever
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:36 GMT
#586
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
July 09 2013 10:37 GMT
#587
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 10:38 GMT
#588
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


I don't think we will see hellbat from now on in any matchup, unless someone goes mech, or maybe in the lategame.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
July 09 2013 10:39 GMT
#589
172 HARDCORE terran players who vote for "I only like the banshee" thats the best in whole poll haha
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:39 GMT
#590
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.
NOFX
Profile Joined April 2013
France32 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:40:51
July 09 2013 10:40 GMT
#591
On July 09 2013 19:30 p1oneer wrote:
Those hellbats are keeping me so angry... Reason is that WHY ARE THEY being healed by medivacs?!?!?!? vikings can be transformed, can be transported in medivacs, but not healed, so what is the difference? hellions cant be and hellbats can? this just makes no sense. hellbats healed by medivacs are retrieving their health faster than siege tank in a siege mode shoots. thats so stupid. Seeing mech TvT with medivacs healing mech unit.... Watching OSL now bbyong vs innovation. And the point is this patch want change mech TvT at all. Maybe it was better to turn of ability to be healed for hellbats? This would change other match-ups as well. What u guys think?


I totally agree that the problem is not the damage output of the hellbat, but the synergy between the super mobility of new medivac and their healing. This is just too much. But early TvT will be a bit better anyway. Cannot be worst.

The good thing to me is that mech players will get blue flame everytime now, and it now makes more sense to make transformation servo or whatever it's called, blue flame hellion run bys will be way more present I guess =)

I'm not really happy about the buff they made on the banshee though, this won't change anything in TvZ/TvP, and the fact that banshee cloack is now possible on one gas, scouting will be more based on luck in TvT.

Wait and see.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
July 09 2013 10:42 GMT
#592
On July 09 2013 19:39 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.


I don't play timings, so I cannot tell you , sorry
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 10:42 GMT
#593
On July 09 2013 19:39 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.


Then you may want to look into banshee/hellion. especially after this patch.
iyasq8
Profile Joined December 2012
113 Posts
July 09 2013 10:58 GMT
#594
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????
Piece
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:58 GMT
#595
Also prepare to a ton of zerg whine. They are not used to this new hellion banshee harass, and it will take time for them to adjust. And we all know what they do during that time :p..
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
July 09 2013 10:59 GMT
#596
On July 09 2013 19:58 iyasq8 wrote:
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????

If only you could sacrifice Overlords, or even research Over speed at hatch tech.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 11:07 GMT
#597
On July 09 2013 19:58 iyasq8 wrote:
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????


the exactly same way you are scouting banshee's right now, because nothing changes apart from it being cheaper?
Napoleon53
Profile Joined January 2010
Denmark167 Posts
July 09 2013 11:18 GMT
#598
On July 09 2013 19:39 Drake wrote:
172 HARDCORE terran players who vote for "I only like the banshee" thats the best in whole poll haha

Im a terranplayer who dont like the hellbat nerf. I think it is too soft. I would rather prefer something like less HP, no medivac healing, or even slower movement speed. I dont think the damage nerf is enough. But I guess time will tell...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 09 2013 11:19 GMT
#599
On July 09 2013 19:12 PanzerElite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 18:57 [F_]aths wrote:
On July 09 2013 18:50 PanzerElite wrote:
TvT was developing fine, this is just stupid and it brings back rock/paper/scissors in TvT. And Banshee rushers were scum of the universe in Wol imo. And Hellbat marauder allins also get nerfed, which is silly because the game was already balanced.

I hope terran winrates drop hard so that we get a good buff instead of a useless banshee in TvP and TvZ.
I hope that one day players will start to use the game they have instead of wanting rule change to buff their race.


WOULD MAKE SENSE IF we wouldn't get a stupid nerf.

Well stop having units that need to be nerfed and buffed. God.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Lock0n
Profile Joined December 2012
United Kingdom184 Posts
July 09 2013 11:30 GMT
#600
Once hellbats are nerfed, TvT will go from being a tense and explosive matchup with hellbat drops, to a long and drawn out turtle fest. This nerf will add 10 mins to an average TvT game, and will be much more boring if you ask me.
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 55 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
Monday Night Weekly 1 Season 2
SteadfastSC606
TKL 499
IndyStarCraft 246
BRAT_OK 116
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 606
mouzHeroMarine 564
TKL 499
IndyStarCraft 246
BRAT_OK 116
JuggernautJason44
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3079
Sea 2544
Shuttle 564
Larva 515
ggaemo 188
Mini 177
firebathero 164
sSak 108
TY 106
Dewaltoss 88
[ Show more ]
Mong 61
Mind 44
hero 41
PianO 39
Hyun 36
Aegong 35
soO 31
Rock 18
Dota 2
Gorgc5917
XcaliburYe199
Counter-Strike
fl0m4757
Stewie2K266
pashabiceps244
byalli243
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu136
Other Games
summit1g3918
qojqva2009
Grubby1609
ceh9645
KnowMe189
Hui .182
ArmadaUGS179
C9.Mang0131
mouzStarbuck77
Trikslyr72
QueenE55
MindelVK22
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick733
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 107
• davetesta22
• Reevou 5
• iHatsuTV 2
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 27
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1030
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur181
Other Games
• imaqtpie1241
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 5m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
15h 5m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 5h
LiuLi Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
OSC
3 days
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
3 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
4 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
[BSL 2025] Weekly
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS1
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Maestros of the Game
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.