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On May 19 2011 01:43 Jonas  wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...
1) Marine SCV all in 2) cloaked banshee rush 3) marine/ tank push into bunker contain 4) 4 rax stim timing 5) ghost rush and all of its variants 6) marine thor SCV all in 7) marine raven banshee push 8) fake 1 rax expand into 7 rax all in 9) blue flame hellion rush (not quite all in, but if it doesn't do a bunch of damage you're pretty behind) 10) 2 port banshee 11) tank marine banshee pressure/contain 12) proxy thor rush 13) maka rax 14) <generic 1 base play that transitions into losing the game then whining about imbalance>
1)wow, so u are saying pressure/contain/push is cheese/allin?
2) maka rax/marine scv allin should be listed as one tbh, they basically follow the same opening (2 rax)
3)this is the same with thor rushes/thor allins etc
4) you mean 4 rax rine allin? 4 rax stim timing is a standard strat in any bio FE build..
5) Cloak banshee rush making you behind if it fails really depends on the general strat you are doing..There are economical strats which make use of fast cloak banshees.
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On May 19 2011 01:53 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 01:40 kerpal wrote:On May 19 2011 01:38 xbankx wrote:On May 19 2011 01:30 Skyze wrote:On May 19 2011 01:28 Huragius wrote:On May 19 2011 01:06 Shiladie wrote:On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...
just vs zerg: 2 rax bunker rush 4 rax pure marine Fake expand into marine marauder timing fast reactor helions fast blue flame at front fast blue flame drop fast banshee Thorship need I go on? Wow, fast reactor hellions, blue flame drop, and banshee are cheese ? I hope you realise that after these openings Terran almost always expands ? So I guess every zerg cheeses in ZvT (*coug Muta *Cough) All these openings are cheese, but DT openings are not, stargate openings are not, fast roaches to harass teching terran is not, baneling busting FE terran is simply punishing him for being greedy and etc. Wow, I can well the bias already. Worthless thread IMO. Yep, basically every build in the game is considered cheese. thats what this community has turned SC into. if the game doesnt go into the 45+ minute mark, with every mineral in the game mined out, its considered all-in also. True that. Everything that is just not defending is an all-in because I think Idra has put into the minds of many players if you attack you are all in because there is a chance that you don't do enough damage. which is intriguing, cause every time idra makes a unit he DOESN'T MAKE A DRONE so is sacrificing econ for aggression... if he doesn't do damage with that unit he's in trouble! what a cheeser. Pretty much unless every player goes for a fast 3rd its a 2 base all in in his mind. He always say zerg has no aggressive option versus toss. Yet when we watch Nestea play. There are so many 2 base timings to abuse against certain toss builds like ling/hydra versus pheonix opening+roach ling versus 3 gate sentry expand.
i wasn't raging against idra there, just joking that of course we all sac econ to build units, if that made something cheese then there would indeed be 20+ cheeses for t/p and about 1000000 different variants on cheese for zerg.
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On May 19 2011 01:43 Jonas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...
1) Marine SCV all in 2) cloaked banshee rush 3) marine/ tank push into bunker contain 4) 4 rax stim timing 5) ghost rush and all of its variants 6) marine thor SCV all in 7) marine raven banshee push 8) fake 1 rax expand into 7 rax all in 9) blue flame hellion rush (not quite all in, but if it doesn't do a bunch of damage you're pretty behind) 10) 2 port banshee 11) tank marine banshee pressure/contain 12) proxy thor rush 13) maka rax 14) <generic 1 base play that transitions into losing the game then whining about imbalance>
Note: If loosing your units without doing anything with them is considered allin, then most things you do can be considered allins.
3 is hardly an allin(and less so cheese). rine/tank push doesn't require bunkers, so adding acontain there is just stupid.
5 I suppose depends on what exactly you are talking about.
6 and 12 are basically the same thing.
9 and 10 are neither allins. If you don't loose your hellions due to greed or stupidity, you are in decent shape with a lot of map control.
Tbh a lot of these things are kind of "i mean toss can do a 1 gate and pull probes with the zlot and make allin". Terran is just a race dependent on harassing or making the opponent play very defensively, so a lot of the attacks are basically qq.
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How the hell are there 14+ all-in builds.
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On May 19 2011 01:03 Shiladie wrote:
Please let's not use the results as excuses to whine!
Instead lets look at how the results here reflect how volatile each matchup is.
The point is that these poll results don't reflect how volatile each matchup is whatsoever.
In fact, the premise that more effective one base builds is strongly correlated with volatility of the matchup is flawed as well.
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I'm curious to why so many people voted for 14+ one base all ins for Zerg. Are you guys being serious?
6 pool
baneling bust
7 roach rush
Someone post the other 11.
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On May 19 2011 02:06 Attica wrote:
I'm curious to why so many people voted for 14+ one base all ins for Zerg. Are you guys being serious?
6 pool
baneling bust
7 roach rush
Someone post the other 11.
According to the OP, that is 9 right there.
They count for 1 for each matchup. So 6 pool counts 3 times etc.
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On May 19 2011 01:13 thoradycus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 01:06 Shiladie wrote:On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...
just vs zerg: 2 rax bunker rush 4 rax pure marine Fake expand into marine marauder timing fast reactor helions fast blue flame at front fast blue flame drop fast banshee Thorship need I go on? fast reactor hellions into CC is(or was) a standard mech strat,i dont see how fast hellions is cheese at all.
To answer this (+other similar posts)
Yes, you're right I was a little hasty with some of those. Though to be fair, the sheer number of options that terran can go, that if the zerg doesn't manage to scout it and prepare perfectly, the terran gets a roll-over is getting a little absurd, and it seems to be increasing by the day.
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Most zerg biased thread ever, just what we need.
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On May 19 2011 02:09 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 01:13 thoradycus wrote:On May 19 2011 01:06 Shiladie wrote:On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...
just vs zerg: 2 rax bunker rush 4 rax pure marine Fake expand into marine marauder timing fast reactor helions fast blue flame at front fast blue flame drop fast banshee Thorship need I go on? fast reactor hellions into CC is(or was) a standard mech strat,i dont see how fast hellions is cheese at all. To answer this (+other similar posts) Yes, you're right I was a little hasty with some of those. Though to be fair, the sheer number of options that terran can go, that if the zerg doesn't manage to scout it and prepare perfectly, the terran gets a roll-over is getting a little absurd, and it seems to be increasing by the day.
it's hard, but it would be easier if they WERE cheeses, cause then you'd essentially be winning by holding them off, instead you hold them off and are maybe at a slight advantage.. maybe not.
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On May 19 2011 02:12 SuperStyle wrote:
Most zerg biased thread ever, just what we need.
TL.net is extremely zerg-biased, been forever...
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On May 19 2011 02:09 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 01:13 thoradycus wrote:On May 19 2011 01:06 Shiladie wrote:On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...
just vs zerg: 2 rax bunker rush 4 rax pure marine Fake expand into marine marauder timing fast reactor helions fast blue flame at front fast blue flame drop fast banshee Thorship need I go on? fast reactor hellions into CC is(or was) a standard mech strat,i dont see how fast hellions is cheese at all. To answer this (+other similar posts) Yes, you're right I was a little hasty with some of those. Though to be fair, the sheer number of options that terran can go, that if the zerg doesn't manage to scout it and prepare perfectly, the terran gets a roll-over is getting a little absurd, and it seems to be increasing by the day.
in this case you r quite right. terrans do have alot of options, and sometimes very deadly ones, just disagree that some of those could be classified as cheese/allin
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Somebody tell me why cheese is called cheese!?!?
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On May 19 2011 02:15 MrStorkie wrote:
Somebody tell me why cheese is called cheese!?!?
Because:- People either love it or hate it.
- It's full of holes.
- You can smell it from a mile away.
- It doesn't deserve a thread.
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EPT
