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Allright, caught up.
What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post:
On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game
His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it?
Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from.
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11589 Posts
Hapa I threw my vote at you because I'm really tired of you tunneling me. You've been presumptuous about my play unfairly. I told you why I've done what I've done and you refuse to see the truth in favor of your own biased assumptions about what it means. My work schedule has been ridiculous, I haven't had a day off since last Wednesday and won't have one until Tuesday. I'm frustrated with this situation you've put me in, but I shouldn't let that cloud my judgment and color you red. I realize that now.
##Unvote
As for who I do want to lynch, I mentioned Mr Zentor before and I still think he's being scummy. He's overly eager to lynch someone, and doesn't seem to care what that person's alignment is. His vote on you is odd, and while it seems like a joke it did move you that much closer to being lynched which is a consideration one has to make when they put a vote on someone. He hasn't exactly been real investigative about people's alignments this game. I also don't like that he wants to be the person to hammer people, given what I've said about the hammer vote before. I don't trust his judgment.
So MrZ, why are you acting so impatient? Hapa has a good point that the longer town waits to lynch the better the lynch could be, so why do you think differently? Scum want the emotional, quick lynch you seem to want to happen.
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@Mr.CC
On January 06 2013 09:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 09:34 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw CC, you mind building a case on Xatalos? He may be indecisive, but I don't see how it's scummy. Tbh I think everyone was overstating my read on Xatalos. My original "case" was just a read post with vote pressure and it kind of got blown out of proportion both by myself and others. Allow me to rationalize why his indecision struck me so: Oats as scum in XXXII. I caught him flip flopping his read on Yamato so hard and lynch him for it. Xatalos did the same thing by contradicting himself within the frame of ~20mins with only 1 post from you inbetween. I'm starting to realize the two situations are different (as scum are more refined in these non-newbie games). But my concern stands that he's only really done that the entire game so far; saying he could be scum because this, but it could also be town. My experience with such play has been that it is scum.Tell me: Is it different?
Can you please elaborate on the bolded? Yamato is a newbie, whether he's in a newbie game or not. Why would "flip-flopping" be a characteristic of a more refined scum play?
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@yamato
I want you to answer what you think of the cheesecake man. You voted for him for no good reason, or at least no reason you felt like explaining. You justified your vote on CC as being a pressure vote (which clearly didn't look like one).
Later on, you said your vote on him was to get a better read on him. If this is true, where is your better read of him? Why are you not commenting on CC? Do you think he is scum? I want to understand your thought process.
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11589 Posts
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such.
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11589 Posts
On January 06 2013 15:47 Z-BosoN wrote:
@yamato
I want you to answer what you think of the cheesecake man. You voted for him for no good reason, or at least no reason you felt like explaining. You justified your vote on CC as being a pressure vote (which clearly didn't look like one).
Later on, you said your vote on him was to get a better read on him. If this is true, where is your better read of him? Why are you not commenting on CC? Do you think he is scum? I want to understand your thought process.
Well as I said before my read has changed on CC because of his recent actions. He has been advocating pro-town things in the thread and being open with his thought process.
Earlier I believe I was falling into bad habits. I'm prone to confirmation bias, and CC has been on the receiving end many times. I looked at his case and it screamed shitty scumhunting to me so I voted for him to see what he would do. I half expected scum CC to OMGUS me on the spot but he didn't, he just kind of laughed at it which is what he'd done to me in games past when he was town so I rethought my position.
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On January 06 2013 15:48 yamato77 wrote:
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such.
Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^
I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously.
He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today.
What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing?
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11589 Posts
On January 06 2013 15:56 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:48 yamato77 wrote:
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such. Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^ I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously. He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today. What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing?
I've been serious about the use of my vote this game. At the time I made the posts, I felt that putting my vote on them was a good action to take. I have not, however, been advocating a quick lynch. You don't see me posting about being impatient and wanting people to die. To draw a similarity between the two is silly at best.
What I want to know is how you have a different read on he and I if we've supposedly done the same thing this game.
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On January 06 2013 15:56 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:48 yamato77 wrote:
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such. Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^ I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously. He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today. What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing?
Hey Z-Boson Wanna kill CC with me :3
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Also I want to delay this day for longer than 72h.
I'm not sure exactly how many hours has elapsed since the beginning, but this doesn't feel so much like the end of day one. I still don't feel comfortable with a lynch. Especially considering how inactive this town is, imo.
@Hapa
Update me to your thoughts on the game after reading my spreadsheet, if you would. I'm loving how much discussion you are creating this game.
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Oooh an active replacement will be a nice change of pace - welcome Z-Bo!
Catching up on things right now. To clarify about spreadsheet - was that made before you knew you were replacing in>?
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On January 06 2013 16:01 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:56 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 06 2013 15:48 yamato77 wrote:
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such. Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^ I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously. He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today. What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing? I've been serious about the use of my vote this game. At the time I made the posts, I felt that putting my vote on them was a good action to take. I have not, however, been advocating a quick lynch. You don't see me posting about being impatient and wanting people to die. To draw a similarity between the two is silly at best. What I want to know is how you have a different read on he and I if we've supposedly done the same thing this game.
Serious? Explain to me how your hapa vote was serious? Explain to me how your CC vote was serious? I've had a town read on mr.Z because, again, he's been very open with his thoughts.
You haven't.
Your town play is characterized by pressuring people and making reads of your own, and you are very transparent as well. Right here I'm getting the opposite. You don't give any reasons for anything you are doing. CC is an example. Hapa, another (sorry if I don't buy your explanation, especially now that you are actually that your vote on hapa was serious).
Not to mention your early game shenanigans. Yuck.
Also, you said earlier that mr. CC screamed bad to you. Where are your thoughts behind it? Why did it scream bad?
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On January 06 2013 16:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Oooh an active replacement will be a nice change of pace - welcome Z-Bo!
Catching up on things right now. To clarify about spreadsheet - was that made before you knew you were replacing in>?
Yes, I was obsing this game on my own (much like on LVIII before I decided to get in the obs qt), trying out different ways of taking notes. I knew that I was getting replaced like 5 min before DYH posted the message on the forum.
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On January 06 2013 16:01 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:56 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 06 2013 15:48 yamato77 wrote:
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such. Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^ I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously. He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today. What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing? Hey Z-Boson Wanna kill CC with me :3
Hi there jay! I don't think he's as scummy anymore as my spreadsheet suggests, but I wanna see what he has to say and have a nice little chat with him.
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Also, jay, tell me more about CC, why do you want him dead? Is it solely because he's not making cases?
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@ Z-Boson
The Xatalos stuff looks good. Really don't have much to say other than that I agree with you.
@ Yamato
I don't think I'm being unjust at all. You've shown major behavior and activity differences between your previous town games and this game. I realize you said you were busy in RL, but I can't rely on that in my position, and I have to take your play at face value to a certain degree. I'm not going to let you off the hook of all pressure and activity for things I can't verify.
Though I do take into account RL concerns; there's a reason that I'm not voting you right now, and I want to give you an opportunity to respond. In particular, I'm very interested in your reads, because you haven't provided much in the scum-hunting department thusfar.
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Regarding the Spreadsheet
I think the pressing reads to address are the ones on Mr.CC, Yamato, and Shaio. I do realize that these are reads as of page 17, so if I missed an update... whoops.
Mr.CC - It's his recent behavior/activity that makes me think he's town. He's pretty fearless, and is generally replying without traces of guilt. It looks like you think he's town based on the last few pages of game-thread as well.
Shaio - Completely null on Shaio. He had a rather "interesting" point on Rise, but I don't think those are hard to replicate as scum. Other than that, he's done pretty much no scumhunting, which is frustrating, because it looks like it's mostly due to RL business rather than anything else. He has a history of super-lurking the early-game as town too.
Yamato - Welp. We'll see what tomorrow brings when I talk to him some more. His personality is visibly different, but I'm not convinced that it's a scummy deviation quite yet. That vote on me I'm thinking could come from an emotional townie as well. It's a horrendously risky play to vote me in such circumstances, which makes me think it's an emotional reaction rather than something scummy.
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11589 Posts
On January 05 2013 11:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:I was on last night before anything juicy happened. Just Rise and policy stuff, none too interesting. Worked a 12 hour shift, gave a little update on my whereabouts during lunch, and here am I. So Xatalos is scummy yo + Show Spoiler +On January 05 2013 07:23 Xatalos wrote:Sorry for the late entrance, but I warned about this pre-game :/ Anyways, there are a couple of players whose posting I haven't liked so far: MrZentorShow nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours. Additional discussion time benefits town and damages Mafia. Mafia's agenda is to stall discussion and create confusion - both of these goals are achieved by faster lynches where less players can offer their opinions. From my point of view, the above post is pushing Mafia agenda. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:40 MrZentor wrote:
I feel that creating an arbitrary limit will only limit town, regardless of whether that limit is one that shortens or lengthens the day.
We should instead have guidelines.
48-72 hours This post basically repeats what was already said in the previous post... Plus some obvious setup talk that anyone could post, no matter their alignment. It's quite unnecessary to mention that his "faster lynches plan" is a guideline and not a strictly enforced rule. Who would have thought so in the first place, really? Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:54 MrZentor wrote:
By the way, I will be reserving my vote, just so I can the first to lynch somebody. Another post that doesn't fit into town agenda. Regardless of the trollish appearance, this post actually gives MrZentor more breathing room if he just joins a bandwagon without good reasoning later on. He told he would do so after all, didn't he? Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:59 MrZentor wrote:
ShiaoPi, if you say that you agree with me about not creating arbitrary limits about the length of the day, I will think of you as confirmed town. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:12 MrZentor wrote:
Because we're masoned.
But don't tell anybody. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:15 MrZentor wrote:
I'm masoned with more than one person.
ShiaoPi pulled a BH. More fluff... So far there's nothing townish in MrZentor's filter, and too much useless/anti-town stuff to be overlooked. If he's town, he needs to change his playstyle completely. If he's Mafia, he needs to continue on his current path and convince us he can't be town. Mr. CheesecakeWho was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far. I'm not looking good so far. Lol k. Why the hell isn't Xatalos attacking me for wanting a shorter lynch time? I basically said 48-72 hoursish just like MrZ. I agreed with MrZ on that point. Inconsistency much? Why is it not okay for MrZ to want a shorter lynch time, but seemingly alright with me to want it?
jaybrundageShow nested quote +On January 04 2013 10:45 jaybrundage wrote:Well we can rule out Palmar as the smurf. In regards to your idea about the set up. It seems that if we have a parity cop. And then lynch the person the parity cop targeted night one. We would have confirmed towns and confirmed scum easily. As we have no millers or GF's. The only trick would be for the parity cop to push his lynch well with out getting outed. Unless you have some idea for claiming. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia. We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote. We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with. Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them. Pretty straight forward imo. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:00 jaybrundage wrote:On January 04 2013 11:59 MrZentor wrote:
ShiaoPi, if you say that you agree with me about not creating arbitrary limits about the length of the day, I will think of you as confirmed town. Should be obvious why limit our selves? Only lynch when we are confident in the lynch. And have had good discussion over it. This is his whole filter. It's certainly... lacking, for a lack of better word. First he speculates a bit about blue roles, then gives a list of vague of his policy opinions, then leaves. It's just all too vague and pointless for my liking. What's up with this lack of effort, interest, anything really? Some players have been very active so far and it's definitely a good theme in this game. But some players (like these 3 above) have done practically nothing, even if they have posted. That should be some reason for concern to anyone. Just look at these reasons for attacking MrZ. "Omg you want less time in the game? Obvious mafia-agenda pushing. It's such a cheap shot it's disgusting, and what an easy thing to point out. Some goes for the point about hammer votes. He attacks MrZ for a fairly null comment, it means nothing. Why the hell isn't Xatalos attacking me for wanting a shorter lynch time? I basically said 48-72 hoursish just like MrZ. I agreed with MrZ on that point. Inconsistency much? Why is it not okay for MrZ to want a shorter lynch time, but seemingly alright with me to want it? So his first post of the game pretty much calls out a third of the thread. Stuff on Jaybrundage is bland and basically summarizes instead of analyzes. Then comes the mother of all contradictory posts: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:49 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 07:33 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xalatos
Welcome! Thoughts on DP appreciated!
Regarding your own points:
MrZ - He tends to do very "trolly" stuff as town and scum. His early-game in Witchcraft Mini is a good example, where he self-votes himself and just posts a couple of meaningless one-liners for most of Day 1 (as town). I'm not too worried about MrZ, as I think reading him is fairly easy. He's very clammy and afraid to post as scum. He's much more open and jokey as town.
JayBrundage - He's lynch-bait (see Hero Mini Mafia). We should definitely encourage him to post more, but he's a pretty easy mislynch (if he's town) because he tends to make sparse and wishy-washy posts.
Mr.CC - I think he's fairly similar to MrZ. I'm not very worried about reading him, because I feel he has a hard time replicating his "jokey" town-meta. His inactivity so far is a concern, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to RL business. Well, for starters, I think you're most likely town. I can't believe a Mafia would outpost everyone in the thread and engage in every possible topic. Does that make DarthPunk Mafia in my eyes? Not really. I agree with many things he says, and his filter just reads fairly townish to me - this post for example: On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
I consider DarthPunk to be trying to figure out the game, not trying to drive his own agenda. That's always town points +++ in my books. I don't like him labeling you as his main suspect, considering your heavy activity and overall townish agenda, but it would be stupid for Mafia to target someone like you as well. I think it's just a case of town vs town flamewar. That's happened so many times before, and not even once has a war between active players A and B resulted in one of them flipping Mafia (in my games). Ugh, I don't like giving some players the benefit of the doubt if they're "lynch baits". That just encourages them to play anti-town as Mafia and then get away with it. Especially MrZentor's playstyle is so irritatingly useless and hard to read... What's the point of signing up if he justs posts some one liners anyway? So he thinks DarthPunk is town, and provides a reason to back it up. Cool beans. Not even a half-hour later: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 08:19 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 07:54 Hapahauli wrote:Well see DarthPunk is very capable of playing an engaged and active mafia game. It's his individual behavior that makes him scummy. For example, his complete lack of pursuing lurkers despite him being super-concerned about them. In addition, his "all bark, no bite" stance on me... where he's been directly calling me scum, yet hasn't placed his vote and hasn't been able to produce a case on me when asked: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=8#142Ugh, I don't like giving some players the benefit of the doubt if they're "lynch baits". That just encourages them to play anti-town as Mafia and then get away with it. Especially MrZentor's playstyle is so irritatingly useless and hard to read... What's the point of signing up if he justs posts some one liners anyway? It's not like I'm unwilling to lynch Jay if I think he's mafia. Far from it. However, his behavior does need to be analyzed in the context of his own gameplay. As for MrZ, I'm not worried about him at all. He's actually pretty easy to read, because his mafia and town personas are completely different from one another. He's far more active, engaged, and jokey in his town games. In his mafia games, it's pretty clear that he has a hard time making posts. His activity and engagement will reveal his alignment soon enough. Hmmm... I can kind of see what you're getting at. For example, this post:On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 06:57 Hapahauli wrote:
Naw it's quite good actually.
You've been screaming "lurkers are ruining the game" in our conversation. Your solution? You've never offered a single lurker to the chopping block. Instead, you think the most active player in the game is scummy.
That's a complete load of logical shit, and I don't expect that from a town DP. We don't have to lynch forever in this game. we can wait a bit before we seriously consider lynching for lurking which is a larger sacrifice in a game this small. What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. Look at these three bolded statements. First you're the scariest player in the game. Then you're retard town (or scum). Then you're certainly scum. These statements just contradict each other. This kind of flip-flopping about your A) skill level B) alignment doesn't make me feel good about DP. Even so, I don't like lynching one of the most active players when most players have done (practically) nothing. Especially this early. Well, I'm not really sure how MrZentor is so easy to read... I'm having extreme difficulties reading him. And I've played with him in two games before too. It shouldn't be too hard to fake some joke posts, right? Especially with his general low activity and lack of any content. So now DarthPunk is possibly scum and he provides a quote with a bunch of dem bolded statements to back it up. But didn't Xatalos just say that DP was looking town? That he agreed with a lot of what he had to say? This is a huuuuuge 180 right here. He just felt very comfortable with DP being town. Now he feels uneasy.
Dat 180 on DP. Explain.
The main points in this case are that Xatalos is inconsistent with his logic about MrZ being scum, and had a 180 on DP. The first point is a weak one, and doesn't mean SHIT about the alignment of Xatalos. I actually agree with what Xatalos had to say about MrZ here. Just because he didn't attack CC for the exact same things and repeat himself doesn't make him scum.
The second point wasn't a strong one either. He never contradicted his own logic, he simply had a change of heart based on some of the things Hapa was saying about DP. Taken out of context with some red text it LOOKS bad but it isn't really. Xatalos doesn't even come across as scum to me even if he changed his read completely that fast because I've seen townies do that a lot. I do it as town, too.
So with two weak points in his case where he attacked a player I felt was going down the right road in putting pressure on MrZ, I found CC's motivations scummy. He had not contributed anything meaningful before that point and this post has done a lot this game in making Xatalos look worse. So I voted for CC to see if my suspicions were correct, that he was scum pushing a bad case. It happened to be that he wasn't scum, but he was still pushing a bad case. So I unvoted him after a better look at his play which suggests a good town.
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Does that answer your question, Z-Bo?
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EPT
