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- Day 3 -Mission Failure!![[image loading]](http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6794/vineyardonfirekristinee.jpg)
Something was wrong. It took a trained eye and a suspicious mind to notice, but the signs were unmistakeable. The normally docile guards at the checkpoint were alert and inquisitive. There were more cars than usual on the roads, both transporting troops, and civilian informers. It was obvious that they had been sold out from the start. Anyone else would have given up allready, but they were desperate. Given the circumstances they were lucky to get out alive.
Mission 2 suffered one sabotage attempt, and failed!
Happy New Year!
Mission 3 require 4 participants!
Toadestern is the first leader.
The day ends in just under 4 days, at 23:00 GMT (+00:00), or 08:00 KST the 5th of January, 2011.
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Damnit. Either the spies are pretty lucky only having one member sabatoge both nights, or this one only had one member as well. In any case I think the next mission should not include palmar, who has been the only continuous factor between the 2 failed missions.
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Yeah palmar will be a nogo for me. I'm still thinking about our possibilities. My idea right now would be just swapping out palmar with rad which would be a team like: Toad + Rad + Greymist + VE which looks good to me.
However, if palmar ist NOT the spy in our teams one of those 2 other guys has to be a spy. It all comes down to wether Palmar really is the spy that failed d1 and d2 or if he's not 
Let's put it that way. Rad and I am the only two that are engraved in stone for me right now. Obviously I will pick myself and because rad was on failure-d1 and was NOT on failure-d2 which looks good for him I'm going to send him as well. I'm probably more likely to swap out VE than greymist atm unless someone got a pretty good explanation why I should swap greymist. instead / as well.
However I'm lacking townish looking people
Zona doesen't exactly look awesome but with what happened now zona might be an alternative.
Jackal58 is just a null. I think he said he trusts me as well which is a good sign for me.
Blazinghand actually looks better now with what happened because if Palmar is suspicious, BH is obviously a little less suspicious but still not really an alternative I guess.
And finally Truthbringer. Looks to be a new guy but other than that I'm not really comfortable judging him. I'm leaning nooby-townie on him and he said something along the lines that I'm weird looking I think.
So if I have to swap someone out I'd probably replace the guy with Zona right now. That is everyone on top of swapping Palmar <-> Rad. Give me a couple of hours to think this trough.
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I think you guys are way off. You think it is more likely that Palmar is a spy and Greymist, Toadesstern, VisceraEyes, Radfield, and Blazinghand are all townies?
I think it is more likely that 1 of Radfield and Blazinghand was a spy, and 1 of Greymist, Toadesstern, VisceraEyes is a spy.
In that case, I would say Blazinghand is a spy and Toadesstern is a spy.
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On January 01 2012 12:28 TruthBringer wrote:
I think you guys are way off. You think it is more likely that Palmar is a spy and Greymist, Toadesstern, VisceraEyes, Radfield, and Blazinghand are all townies?
I think it is more likely that 1 of Radfield and Blazinghand was a spy, and 1 of Greymist, Toadesstern, VisceraEyes is a spy.
In that case, I would say Blazinghand is a spy and Toadesstern is a spy.
So you think BH and I am a spy? I was the guy who started pointing out that BH's first big post looked weird and I kept saying that for a long time I think. Essentially I said BH is (along with you) one of the only 2 people I would NOT be willing to send on a mission d1 and that's why I voted nay d1. You think a spy would put that much effort into getting another spy OFF the team d1?
That's just incredible in pretty much every way unless you think that either Radfield or Palmar were spies as well (you just said they're both town?) because in that scenario I would have tried to get a 1-spy-team instead of a 2-spy-team (which failed if your "theory" is right). So if you really think BH and I am a spy you have to think that one out of Rad+palmar has to be a spy or that I'm a mafia who's trolling his team on purpose because I would not have pushed against BH without a good reason if we both are spies...
But then again, do you really think I would push my "teammate" on d1 increasing the chances that people might agree and think he's a spy as well? If that would be true I singlehandedly outet 2 spies as a spy myself. That is just ridicules.
Your whole idea really only works if we had 2 spies d1 AND 2 spies d2 and both times spies managed to do it perfectly while pretty much everyone agreed that it's more likly that we only had 1 spy.
Could you do me a favor and tell me who YOU think is townie and why? I'm just going ahead and will be picking the exact opposite.
+ Show Spoiler +No I'm not but you get my point right?...
My point is, if you think I'm a spy I want to hear a reason instead of just saying "I think you're a spy" and on top of that I want to see a plausible "teammate" because if you think I am a spy saying BH is a spy makes 0 sense and if you think BH is a spy saying Toad is a spy makes 0 sense. This is NOT a "one of those two HAS to be a spy" argument, this is a "those two CAN'T be both spies, at all, Never ever" argument.
Yes this is a big post about how your idea just does not make sense. Yes I am not adressing your issues you have but that's simply because you haven't mentioned a single one. So go ahead, tell me why you think I'm mafia and I will either laugh at you and ignore everything else you're going to post or I'm going to answer them. Depending on my moot because again:
Could you do me a favor and tell me who YOU think is townie and why? I'm just going ahead and will be picking the exact opposite. + Show Spoiler +No I'm not but you get my point right?...
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On January 01 2012 12:28 TruthBringer wrote:
I think you guys are way off. You think it is more likely that Palmar is a spy and Greymist, Toadesstern, VisceraEyes, Radfield, and Blazinghand are all townies?
I think it is more likely that 1 of Radfield and Blazinghand was a spy, and 1 of Greymist, Toadesstern, VisceraEyes is a spy.
In that case, I would say Blazinghand is a spy and Toadesstern is a spy.
This post resonates with me. Toad has seemed to me to be kinda iffy with his suspicions. I'm rereading and keeping a particular eye on BH and Toad.
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On day 1, there is so little to judge people's alignment on that someone has to look really, really scummy to reasonably veto the squad that includes them. It will basically never happen that a day 1 squad selection actually gets vetoed. With as scummy as you seemed to think BH was and as scummy as BH seemed to think Radfield was, the team still got the vote 5-2.
So, when you know it is very unlikely the squad will actually be vetoed, it is really easy to gain town credit by voting against a squad that you know will be sabotaged.
You and Blazinghand were the only two to vote against the first day squad.
As far as you going after Blazinghand, well you had to give some reason for voting against the squad and Palmar had said very little, and what little he had said was clearly good for town. Blazinghand was already harping on Radfield's rapid team selection. Plus, Radfield already adequately explained that he did have reasons and they came 5 minutes after his team post. BH was simply an easy scapegoat for you that allowed you to develop town credit after the first mission failed.
I don't know that you are a spy, but I would pick you as a spy over greymist, Palmar, or VE and I would pick BH as a spy over Radfield or Palmar.
As for who I think is town, my top 2 are Palmar and VE.
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On January 01 2012 16:28 TruthBringer wrote:
On day 1, there is so little to judge people's alignment on that someone has to look really, really scummy to reasonably veto the squad that includes them. It will basically never happen that a day 1 squad selection actually gets vetoed. With as scummy as you seemed to think BH was and as scummy as BH seemed to think Radfield was, the team still got the vote 5-2.
So, when you know it is very unlikely the squad will actually be vetoed, it is really easy to gain town credit by voting against a squad that you know will be sabotaged.
You and Blazinghand were the only two to vote against the first day squad.
As far as you going after Blazinghand, well you had to give some reason for voting against the squad and Palmar had said very little, and what little he had said was clearly good for town. Blazinghand was already harping on Radfield's rapid team selection. Plus, Radfield already adequately explained that he did have reasons and they came 5 minutes after his team post. BH was simply an easy scapegoat for you that allowed you to develop town credit after the first mission failed.
I don't know that you are a spy, but I would pick you as a spy over greymist, Palmar, or VE and I would pick BH as a spy over Radfield or Palmar.
As for who I think is town, my top 2 are Palmar and VE.
so you're basicly saying a townie should yay-vote every team suggested by leader #1 on day #1? Well I'm sorry I'm not agreeing with that.
I said I'm not yay-voting a team that got yourself on it for your weird actions early on (actualIy did not say that, but I said it's 2 people behaving weird, one of them being BH and figured the 2nd one is not hard to guess) and I said I'm not going to yay-vote a team suggested by someone who wants to send BH because of this first big post that I still think made no sense.
Yes it wasn't a "really scummy"-read, not at all. It was a "probably a coinflip but maybe leaning a little leaning towards scum"-read while everyone else was just a coinflip because noone was talking at all. That's all I had d1 and therefore I nay-voted it because I wanted a team without yourself and BH.
You just haven't even tried to do an educated guess instead you're just rnd-voting by agreeing with team#1 before it was even suggested. You really think we can win this if we only go by math? We need talk to judge people to make an educated guess instead of a plain rnd-vote like you did. People already pointed out that the chances of rnd-teams are as slim as they can get, still you're telling me that questioning people is the wrong way and I'm a spy because I nay-voted a team d1?
This is not a some kind of gambling machine. The hosts did not balance this (at least I hope so and apparently the score proves me right) to make it a 50% win chance if we just go by math. You have to try and read people or mafia will win this unless we get really lucky.
You're just trying to get people argueing over each other. You still haven't said a word why you think the way you do. Yes I could be a spy given your information, yes BH could be as well but so could be everyone else on your list and I think there are way more reasonable solutions to the problem "who might be the scum" than suggesting I am a spy who made you all vote the way you did while having multiple spies on a mission who managed to get their shit right every day.
You're just trying to start confusion and make people question me while not giving a simple reason why you think I look strange.
That's not a bad thing if you really think I am spy for some reason because would mean you're trying to prevent another failure. However as mentioned you're not giving a single reason. That's just leading town towards a rnd-team because everyone is argueing about stuff that has no basis to argue about because there's not a single issue you gave us so far.
Actually I might swap VE as well since you seem to trust him for no specific reason. I can see how palmar looks town with what he posted, still I will not suggest him as he was on two missions that failed. So it's probably going to be something like
Toad + Rad + Greymist + (either VE or Zona) I'll be suggesting.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
So, we likely have:
1 of Blazinghand, Palmar, Radfield
1 of Palmar, Greymist, VE, Toad
1 or 2 of Zona, Jackal, Truthbringer (If Palmar is a spy then we have 2 of these last 3.)
I am Town and I'm almost positive Toad is town. I am less sure about Palmar at the moment though. He has been dogging it this game, and contributing much less than he should. I'm not talking about posts or post-length here either, because Palmar can do a lot with a little. However it's holidays so that is less of an indicator than usual. But I am also concerned that he seems somewhat ambivalent to who the scum is (from his perspective) out of me and blazinghand. He has a good enough read on me generally that he should know I am town, and should know blazinghand is scum simply based on blazinghands terrible posting. Yet he has hardly mentioned blazinghand. That said I would still lean towards blazinghand being the scum on Day 1, but I am far less sure than I was.
Palmar, presumably from your perspective one of Greymist, VE and Toad are scum. Please find him for me 
I think we should be taking one of zona, Jackal and Truth on this mission. Right now I am inclined to take Truthbringer.
That means Me, Toad, Truth and one more. I need to read some filters first though, and likely will not be doing it today.
Happy New Year Guys!!
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Zona, you're doing some weird stuff this game. Please get in here and contribute with A) who you want to see go on this mission, and B) who you think is most scummy.
VE, you are quieter than you should be. From your perspective one of greymist, Toad and Palmar is scum. Who is it? Who else is scum? Who would you send on this mission?
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greymist/toad is one
Blazinghand is one
Zona/Jackal is one
That leaves our mission team for today as me/you/truth/ve.
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which is also the team I suggested yesterday. I should've just stuck to my guns and went with that one.
I'm leaning more towards toad being the scum from last night's mission. Greymist's position is clearly bad:
On January 01 2012 10:37 GreYMisT wrote:
Damnit. Either the spies are pretty lucky only having one member sabatoge both nights, or this one only had one member as well. In any case I think the next mission should not include palmar, who has been the only continuous factor between the 2 failed missions.
But I don't think this makes him scum, this just makes him ignorant and possibly frustrated.
What you guys are forgetting, that barring some silly luck or super convoluted breadcrumbing, there was only 1 spy on each night's mission, which means we technically have a ton of players who are very likely to be town.
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finally, that's all I need, thx palmar :p
Out of nowhere you 3 guys (Palmar, Truth, VE) are comming and telling people I'm a spy. Yet noone told me why you think so. Not a single word. This is you three sticking together because I said I'm not going to include palmar again and said I'm going to suggest myself + rad + greymist + a 4th guy while mentioning that I don't like VE's attitude anymore.
Those 3 are our spies, all three are suspiciou for a reason and completly out of the blue they're sticking together like that? Just keep dodging them and we win. Guess I was wrong on BH afterall.
##Team: Toadesstern, Radfield, GreYMisT, Zona
Swapped out Palmar for obvious reasons
Swapped out VE for obvious reasons and those 4 are town.
Zona because even if you don't believe I'm right with truth and VE and you only think that we should not give palmar a chance Zona looks perfectly nice.
Greymist still is my 2nd strongest townread after rad now that palmar was on both failed missions.
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yeah, I'm downvoting that team as fast as I possibly can
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Alright, first off - if you're town, you don't place a Yay vote until everything has been discussed. There are three spies, if even two town players place a Yay vote, and the proposed team happens to have 1 or more spies, they hammer and win.
Secondly, you must read what I write even if you feel I might be a spy. Other than Blazinghand and Radfield accusing each other, the other other substantial and comprehensive case that has been presented is my case against those two. I will present it again, in a stronger form, and I want you to read it with an open mind BEFORE you conclude whether I am town or spy.
Palmar, I know you are town (I will explain this), and I expect you especially to read closely. In TL Mafia 48, you presented a very strong case which quite a few dumb townies did not buy, and were exasperated as a result. I will feel the same exasperation if you do not consider my case.
Jackal, I know you are town (also will explain this), and I expect you to read closely. In Some Mafia Game, when BayonetteAnderson pulled off that dumbshit politician vote-buy claim, I explained to you with airtight logic why Palmar had to be mafia after all of that, but you did not believe me because you suspected that I was mafia. This time, read what I write, THEN decide whether or not my case has merit, and whether or not I am a spy.
The other townies, I expect you to read closely. There are only 6 townies in the game, and if the spies do not vote for a team without spies on it, we need at least 5 of us to Yay the team to succeed, and survive another day.
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Now, before you dismiss the possibility of two spies on the day 1 mission, consider this. Radfield + Blazinghand have 23 posts combined on day 1, compared to 31 for THE OTHER 7 OF US! Look at their filters and pay attention to what they have said to each other. How they are talking to each other.
First of all, I will repost the case I posted earlier here. I will rephrase the areas where I was tentative because I am sure now:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12942132
Nothing that has occurred after I posted that case has disproven any of it, and in fact, the case is now stronger than before.
By reexamining the first day's interactions I will establish that Radfield and Blazinghand are spies.
Consider the sequence of events.
On December 26 2011 17:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Team: Radfield (yourself, who is confirmed town to you), plus Zona (for example), plus someone who gives off a solid town read like, say, Blazinghand. If the mission fails, you can reasonably say "well I think this was Zona" (though others will not be able to do so). The beauty of this though is, assuming you're right about the "1 mafia among Zona/Palm/Rad", If your mission succeeds, you've pinned down a mafia member! (WIFOM alert: Mafia, knowing this, might intentionally not sabotage, etc).
(a few more back and forth posts between the two I will discuss later)
On December 27 2011 10:26 Radfield wrote:
OK, I'm just going to propose a team then.
Myself
Palmar
Blazinghand
It obviously goes against my initial post, but that first post was really just to get things kicking.
Palmar pointed out Blazinghand's little "WIFOM alert" portion, but it's the sequence of events that caught my eye. Notice that Radfield "goes against his intial post" after Blazinghand's post and then includes Blazinghand in his team.
However, what's damning is that Radfield accepts Blazinghand's poor logic in the process. Here are the back and forth posts.
On December 27 2011 06:06 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 05:51 Blazinghand wrote:On December 27 2011 03:15 Toadesstern wrote:On December 27 2011 02:49 Blazinghand wrote:On December 27 2011 02:03 TruthBringer wrote:
Blazinghand, how exactly do you get a townread from someone at this point in this game?
Based on my assumptions, which I clearly stated in my previous post. Everybody is just A, B, . . . H, I right now. I am not sure that putting any more thought into it is going to cause me to rationally approve of A, B, C, but not A, B, D. It's the kind of read that is more solid if more people post analysis of what they think the optimal move is. I think it's reasonable for any team leader to chose himself as part of his team on this first day, since to him he is a confirmed town, in order to maximize our odds. In any case, I don't view people as A, B, C-- you know why? Currently people have already diverged somewhat in posting patterns, if only because it's christmastime and some people haven't had time to post yet. For example, I haven't seen a post from Zona, whereas I HAVE seen a post from you. This means to me, Zona is indeed just "player A who hasn't posted yet"... but you are not. You are a person with a history. You blindly yay-voted the first town leader on the basis of "Well forming reads on the first day is harddddddddddd (or impossible)". brb 3 hours quick question. What's more important for you: Getting information d1 based off our mission or getting a successful mission d1? I don't see why those would be mutually exclusive. In fact, I see those as the same thing. A successful mission gives is 3 probable towns, whereas a failed mission just says "well someone among these three is mafia but we don't know who ._." So I'd say: yes, gathering d1 info by getting a successful mission is the most important. Well, what you were saying earlier is that if I think 1 of Zona and Palmar is scum, it makes the most sense to actually take one of those players along. That would decrease our odds of victory, but increase our information potential. Yes?
Radfield has (implicitly) come to the correct conclusion ("decrease our odds of victory") here that if he believes one of Palmar/Zona/himself is a spy, then taking one more of us along with himself, if he is town, (so a 50/50 chance that myself or Palmar is a spy) is worse than picking from the rest, where the chances would be 33%.
On December 27 2011 06:16 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 06:06 Radfield wrote:On December 27 2011 05:51 Blazinghand wrote:On December 27 2011 03:15 Toadesstern wrote:On December 27 2011 02:49 Blazinghand wrote:On December 27 2011 02:03 TruthBringer wrote:
Blazinghand, how exactly do you get a townread from someone at this point in this game?
Based on my assumptions, which I clearly stated in my previous post. Everybody is just A, B, . . . H, I right now. I am not sure that putting any more thought into it is going to cause me to rationally approve of A, B, C, but not A, B, D. It's the kind of read that is more solid if more people post analysis of what they think the optimal move is. I think it's reasonable for any team leader to chose himself as part of his team on this first day, since to him he is a confirmed town, in order to maximize our odds. In any case, I don't view people as A, B, C-- you know why? Currently people have already diverged somewhat in posting patterns, if only because it's christmastime and some people haven't had time to post yet. For example, I haven't seen a post from Zona, whereas I HAVE seen a post from you. This means to me, Zona is indeed just "player A who hasn't posted yet"... but you are not. You are a person with a history. You blindly yay-voted the first town leader on the basis of "Well forming reads on the first day is harddddddddddd (or impossible)". brb 3 hours quick question. What's more important for you: Getting information d1 based off our mission or getting a successful mission d1? I don't see why those would be mutually exclusive. In fact, I see those as the same thing. A successful mission gives is 3 probable towns, whereas a failed mission just says "well someone among these three is mafia but we don't know who ._." So I'd say: yes, gathering d1 info by getting a successful mission is the most important. Well, what you were saying earlier is that if I think 1 of Zona and Palmar is scum, it makes the most sense to actually take one of those players along. That would decrease our odds of victory, but increase our information potential. Yes? Indeed. But this is only a viable tactic because you personally know that you are not scum. I'm not the current leader, so I would gain no additional information from you selecting one of Zona/Palmar to come with you, even assuming I shared your thought that 1 of Zona/Palmar/Radfield is scum, because *I* can't rule *you* out. So with my knowledge base, with your assumption of 1 of Zona/Palm/Rad being scum, I actually would not want you to pick 2 from that group, but rather, to pick me, since I myself know I am not scum, and I want to maximize our success rate. Effectively, the leader's D1 is fundamentally different from a non-leader's D1, because the leader knows his alignment and is select the team. Since I'm currently not the leader, I think we should maximize win rate which will maximize info gained. You as the leader are not working with the same information I am, so you will have a different motivation.
Here, Blazinghand reiterates his strategy, which he states "maximize win rate" (it does NOT), and talks about "You as the leader"..."will have different motivation."
On December 27 2011 06:21 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 06:17 Toadesstern wrote:On December 27 2011 06:06 Radfield wrote:On December 27 2011 05:51 Blazinghand wrote:On December 27 2011 03:15 Toadesstern wrote:On December 27 2011 02:49 Blazinghand wrote:On December 27 2011 02:03 TruthBringer wrote:
Blazinghand, how exactly do you get a townread from someone at this point in this game?
Based on my assumptions, which I clearly stated in my previous post. Everybody is just A, B, . . . H, I right now. I am not sure that putting any more thought into it is going to cause me to rationally approve of A, B, C, but not A, B, D. It's the kind of read that is more solid if more people post analysis of what they think the optimal move is. I think it's reasonable for any team leader to chose himself as part of his team on this first day, since to him he is a confirmed town, in order to maximize our odds. In any case, I don't view people as A, B, C-- you know why? Currently people have already diverged somewhat in posting patterns, if only because it's christmastime and some people haven't had time to post yet. For example, I haven't seen a post from Zona, whereas I HAVE seen a post from you. This means to me, Zona is indeed just "player A who hasn't posted yet"... but you are not. You are a person with a history. You blindly yay-voted the first town leader on the basis of "Well forming reads on the first day is harddddddddddd (or impossible)". brb 3 hours quick question. What's more important for you: Getting information d1 based off our mission or getting a successful mission d1? I don't see why those would be mutually exclusive. In fact, I see those as the same thing. A successful mission gives is 3 probable towns, whereas a failed mission just says "well someone among these three is mafia but we don't know who ._." So I'd say: yes, gathering d1 info by getting a successful mission is the most important. Well, what you were saying earlier is that if I think 1 of Zona and Palmar is scum, it makes the most sense to actually take one of those players along. That would decrease our odds of victory, but increase our information potential. Yes? That's exactly my point. From what blazinghand said earlier it looks like he wants us to sacrifice d1 for information gain because if he was suggesting that if rad thinks zona or palmar are scum then he should take one of them to get clear information. However that "clear" information is only information for rad because he might know his alignment but how am I supposed to know if he's not the spy while both zona and palmar are town? So that "clear" information is really only clear information for rad (if at all) and increases the chances of being blocked d1. At the same time we could just get screwed big time if the waynie (idea = send rad + zona/palmar + waynie) turns out to be a spy. So even for rad the information isn't granted at all because he could end up thinking zona is a spy when sending zona along with him while in realitiy the 3rd guy was the spy. To sum it up: I don't think there is anything like granted information out of d1 therefore I think we should try to minimize the chances of getting sabotaged therefore I don't like your "send zona or palmar to get clear information" at all. That's why I what blazinghand was about to suggest earlier. ._. we only really gain information if the mission is successful. If the mission fails all we know is "someone of these three is scum" the point of that post is that Radfield is not acting optimally given his assumptions, not "oh we should do X" because I think Radfield's assumptions are wrong anyways. I'm just pointing otu that given what he's said, it's a terrible idea to pre-vote Yay on him and you should unvote.
Blazinghand here even states that "we only really gain information if the mission is successful" - while suggesting a strategy which does NOT maximize the chances of success. At the very least, Radfield has realized this.
And after that, Radfield proposes his team, which if you'll notice, follows Blazinghand's proposed strategy. When asked why he picked it, he states:
On December 27 2011 10:31 Radfield wrote:
yay or nay.
Here is my reasoning.
Palmar's only post, while brief, is an important piece of advice and not one I had even considered.
Blazinghand seems townish and willing to reason out and his posting is sound.
I know myself to be town. Honestly, any Day 1 leader who DID NOT put themselves into the first mission would be auto-scum as far as I can tell. It would be blatantly playing against your win-con. In fact, it seems like leaders at every stage of mission will be putting themselves in. No?
He does NOT acknowledge that he is following precisely what Blazinghand has proposed. And worse, I expect Radfield to realize that Blazinghand's proposal does NOT maximize the chances of success given the assumptions, which both of them seem to accept without questioning.
After the N1 failure, both players basically attack each other (while emphasizing the "one spy on day 1" idea) without really considering the possibility that Palmar is the spy.
Now consider what has happened since then.
Radfield has responded to my case with just a lame insult.
On December 31 2011 07:03 Radfield wrote:
The idea that I, as a spy, would select another spy for mission 1 is absurd. You should do something more productive with your time zona.
Who do you want on today's mission?
No disputing of the reasoning or arguments involved at all. I would expect a town Radfield to dispute the case against him, since he would be able to clearly point out where it had no merit. You may also notice that Radfield is vigorously disputing the "cases" put against him by Blazinghand. Radfield is simply hoping that the case I present will be ignored by the rest of you.
Now let's look at Blazinghand's response. It's even more interesting.
His first post in response is this:
On December 31 2011 06:28 Blazinghand wrote:
if thats the case vote yay for Bluemists team then right?
His priority here is to get me to vote for GreyMiST's team, which we now see has failed. It's also something I anticipated, based on my case on Radfield and Blazinghand:
On December 31 2011 06:30 Zona wrote:
Actually, no. Because if I'm correct that you're a spy, then your support of the team actually indicates it's very possible that the last spy is in that team.
He also doesn't defend against the allegations:
On December 31 2011 06:30 Blazinghand wrote:
at least someone thinking both me and rad are spies is better than someone thinking i am the sole spy-- zona wont make the mistake of sending rad on a mission
That being said this is a great case against rad.
also that whole thing was "assuming rad's assumption was true" but i do not think it is true
Then he throws out some nonsense to try to distract everyone:
On December 31 2011 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:
I think the key we're missing here is that Radfield Zona Jackal is the spy team
Blazinghand and Radfield are spies. One of Toadesstern, GreYMisT and VisceraEyes is a spy. (Palmar is not a spy due to Blazinghand/Radfield being spies.)
Truthbringer, Palmar, Jackal, and I are town. This is the team I want.
We still need to identify one more town for Day 5. VE, Toad, GreyMisT you need to post more of your opinions.
Before ANYONE votes Yay, we must have acceptable teams from everyone in the thread. Then we vote - the people we agree are least scummy vote last, the people we agree are most scummy vote first. If anyone places a Yay vote on a team they did not explicitly say they were comfortable with, we all immediately unvote and reconsider the situation.
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didn't expect you to help me :p
Same goes for Truth and VE but as long as the rest votes yes I'm fine with that
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As I believe Radfield is a spy, I have nay-voted this team.
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totally know how palmar felt last game...
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ok zona I think there is literally only one possible team we're both agreeing on.
I won't vote yay on a team that has palmar, truth or VE suggested because that's an instant lose, you won't agree on a team that got BH or Rad suggested.
That's 5 people we don't like and leaves us with 4 people:
Grey, Jackal, Zona, Toad. Since all 4 of them are town I would also agree to that if jackal or zona are going to suggest something like that. However I still hope that we get 4 more townies to yay-vote my team to denie Palmar and VE their chance to get 2 stupid townies on their team but just in case that's not going to happen I'm already telling you that I'm pretty much going to nay-vote everything else.
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EPT
