EPT
Btw in lategame you should have both Zhonya and Seraph's
[Champion] Evelynn - Page 16
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ShowBitz
16 Posts
Btw in lategame you should have both Zhonya and Seraph's | ||
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On July 05 2013 22:22 ShowBitz wrote: I show you the 2 item (my example is with Evelynn lvl 18 when your RoA is 100% full of his passive and you probably have a Seraph with full mana): Rod of Ages: 450 Hp 450 Mana 80 AP Fully stacked RoA gives 650 Hp and 650 mana. On July 05 2013 22:22 ShowBitz wrote: Seraph's Embrace: 1000 Mana +10 Mana Reg. almost 120 AP ( 60 AP from item and 30 AP each 1k Mana stacked, Evelyn at lvl 18 has 936 Mana so almost 2k mana) And now why Seraph is better: - 40 more AP ( Much burst damage) - Mana reg. (I know maybe you say that is not so important in late game but we have to count anyway) - You dont need 3k mana to beat RoA HP in fact if you start fight with Seraph passive you will have: 20% of your current mana (if you have 2k mana its like 400 shield) + 150= 500-550 Shield in total > 450 Hp Seraph gives more AP, I can't argue here. I missed the fact that the shield had a flat 150 hp. Unless with both missed something else, it means RoA will always give more survavibility. Your maths say you'll get 550 in the best case (and using the shield before any other spells is beyond stupid) which is less than RoA. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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ShowBitz
16 Posts
On July 06 2013 07:14 NpG)Explosive wrote: Seraph gives more AP, I can't argue here. I missed the fact that the shield had a flat 150 hp. Unless with both missed something else, it means RoA will always give more survavibility. Your maths say you'll get 550 in the best case (and using the shield before any other spells is beyond stupid) which is less than RoA. 99% of the time when you reveal in a fight all enemy team (if they arent stupid) start to focus you so probably you can take the max advantage of the Seraph's passive cause you will use it immediately. Anyway in most case you shield yourself with a 500 shield, not bad uh? Also you have to remember that my example is with Evelyn at lvl 18. Try take a Catalyst (1200 gold) or a Tear (700) and see which one is the more usefull during the early-mid game  Maybe you are right, im not a pro so its only my opinion; i just say that in my experience Seraph's is a more suitable item for Eve. Good luck! :D | ||
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
If the game has a lot of action early I usually go for a really early pair of homeguard boots, as in first item after flask. That will get you back to mid lane so fast after a gank and with full hp/mana. In that case, I find any kind of regen a waste and just rush pure dmg (dfg, dcap, lich bane) for fast wave clear and high kill potential. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On July 10 2013 08:49 mordek wrote: Just ran eve jungle without 9 in utility instead of defense. It was horrible lol. Why did you feel it was so bad? I find that staying safer in my first clear with the defense tree is way better when every game has a Nunu/Lee Sin/Elise/Jarvan on the other team and I get counterjungled nonstop. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
either it is "Just ran eve jungle with 9 in utility instead of defense" OR "Just ran even jungle without 9 in utility taking defense instead" w/ and w/o can get confused quite easily. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Reasons to play Eve: Can farm very fast, although not that safely Can still play aggressively if the lanes are prone to ganks Stealth = sex Scales pretty well into the lategame if you play properly The only top tier assassiny jungle atm She wears only her underwear ok that's enough. When to pick Eve: Currently one of the strongest junglers, a viable first pick Comboes especially well with AoE comps that she does amazingly with in teamfights Also works in splitpush comps where she can work kinda like nocturne, constantly threaten an engage on either side. Due to being super strong it is a fine idea to pick her first and then building a teamcomp around her depending on what the enemy picks. She has problems against hard CC, especially long lasting stuff like Rammus+Fiddle. Remains a viable fp, though if you see those picks you might (or might not) reconsider, she is still fine against them. Skills (I will include all relevant info like mana cost/cd/range/way it works in the finished guide): Passive: Q: Mash that button for sweet sweet dmg. High mana cost. Nothing special here to say I think except explaining how it chooses its target? Maxed 1st. W: Using this reveals you to, so wait to use it until you're up close. Save it up if you expect to get slowed. Maxed 2nd because you don't get to autoattack that much really so levels in E aren't really awesome. E: dmg+attack speed, maxed last, used alongside autoattacks. Nothing special to say I think, use it at the start of a fight and then again whenever it goes off cd. R: Your only CC. The slow is pretty pathetic at lvl1, so be careful about that. Use in ganks for that CC or save it up if you think you can get a kill without using it (the cd is long) or expect a countergank you can defeat with it. Use it to initiate teamfights from basically out of vision, works if enemy is clumped up or someone is out of position. Comboes well with other AoEs. Setup: Masteries: 21/9/0 (exactly what Diamondprox uses, with an option for bladed armor instead of +2armor I guess, but meh. +2armor probably better). Don't think anything else is useable? Runes: AD reds, Armor Yellows, Mres/Flat AP Blues (depending on circumstance, though I vastly prefer the latter Diamondprox seems to favour the former), flat AP quints (don't think you can even use anything else here) Summoners: Flash+Smite, no gimmicks. It's not like flash is bad in fights if you use it to dodge skillshots. Skill order: QEWQQR R>Q>W>E, no compromises or reasons to ever do anything different here. Items: Machete+5 start. Spirit Stone+Boots1 on first back if possible. Buy pots liberally (you have no sustain in hp department). First item is definitely Elder Lizard. Then it can get a bit diverse. Boots can be Sorcs (the default ones), Ninja/Mercs in case of overwhelming amount of dmg on either spectrum, Mobo boots (does anyone ever buy those? I Don't want to include them because they seem a bit retarded but meh.. if they are widely popular why not I guess). Items can be gotten next or delayed depending on circumstances. The most usual 2nd item is Haunting Guise, for maximum dmg output. Evelynn doesn't really have very good AP ratios so Mpen suits her way better. If you find yourself needing a tank, perhaps because you didn't pick correctly (or you planned to do this from the very start, hey, Eve isn't bad when built tanky either) you should probably forego Haunting guise and have Elder Lizard as your sole dmg item. The best tanky items for Eve are Aegis and Locket. both provide nice amounts of hp (that remains very useful despite your ultimate) while providing aura for your teammates (and hell, everyone knows these items are OP). Then you can build the standard stuff. Randuins, Bulwark, all that stuff. If you don't find yourself needing a tank, building more damage is just fine. After Lizard and Haunting Guise, Sorc boots are the natural follow up. Then you are faced with 2 choices: either Zhonyas or Rylais next. All depends on how teamfights are going, if you expect to be able to do anything after coming back from gold Zhonyas is the preffered choice, but if you just don't seem to be able to save up that 1600 for NLR or you are doing just fine picking off people without being overly focused on Rylais it is. You WILL need that tankiness from either item, you can trust me that. After getting either, getting the other one is generally the way to go. Other dmg choices: Abyssal (VERY VERY rarely, only if their magic dmg is super overwhelming, you have a lot of other magic dmg on your team and you arent getting focused on all that much), Locket/Aegis (surviving=more dmg), Guardian Angel (a fine last item if the game is that long. Also, wtf is the game that long?). Since Eve doesn't have very good AP ratios and there aren't really any great AD items on her (lifesteal is useless so no-go for BT, her dmg is still mostly magic so LW is dumb) building damage after Haunting/Lizard/Rylais/Zhonyas is really awkward, with the exception of Void staff, which is quite situational (only when enemies have a ton of mres). Jungling: Start at either buff, then get the other one. Press E, autoattack, keep pressing Q. Easy game easy life. Ganking: Creativity gogogo. You can walk up behind them and then reveal yourself if they dont have pinks. Watch closely where pinks go. If you don't think a gnak will succeed, just keep farming, Eve is really good at farming. I guess I'd point out all the different paths you can take while ganking. Counterganks: Getting counterganked sucks on Eve, because you are squishy early game and enemy can easily focus you down. Generally, if there is a threat of countergank, don't gank. A successful countergank is about 3 times as devastating as a successful gank. The scenario is different if you are the one doing the counterganking. As Eve you can get unusually good positions for counterganking and you can't get focused down since you come into the fight a bit later, after a few cds are used up. Counterganking is a good idea on Eve if you are fairly sure the enemy jungler is going to gank a place (or even better, if you are completely sure) Midgame: Due to being squishy, you don't do dragon nor baron very well. Also, you can easily run out of mana doing them spamming Q every second or 2, so that's another concern. Evelynn ganks with your ultimate on bottom lane should be strong enough to send the enemy back to base, giving you the time to do dragon, so that's your main focus from lvls 6-8 (depending on your strenght). If the enemy is stronger and the enemy jungler is playing it well, focusing on bottom lane around the same period of time as you are, it might be wise to trade dragon for top tower. You might very well find enemy top laner being overaggresive around this time and easily kill him+net a tower. You will probably get a kill and top tower, they will get dragon and bottom tower, but hey, when you are behind it's probably better than dicking around bottom doing bollocksall. After drake is down, chaos ensues. Incredible plays, epic fights and stupid shit happens because all objectives are evenly spread out around the map now. Do your best to keep up with the enemy and focus on lanes where enemy outer towers haven't fallen yet. Lategame: If you were wise and went alongside AoE comp just as I told you to, your lategame plan is pretty simple. Get control around baron, have your support buy oracles (and maybe get a few wards of your own you greedy bastard) and start baiting. The good time to start doing that is at AROUND 12 (roughly) when all enemy outer towers are down. If all enemy outer towers fall before that, it's probably better to keep farming and doing things aorund towers because baron will still cave your skull in at lvl9 or so. Jungle is tight so forcing a fight around there with an AoE teamcomp is brutal. Easy game easy life. If you went with the splitpush comp you just stay off the enemy map. Splitpushing mid+something is especially good with Eve since you can travel between lanes then. Enemy can't really engage on either person unless they want to coinflip. Sometimes you can dive the enemy solo, if you can do that and tell your 3 to fall back as fast as they can, sometimes you can fight 4v4 and sometimes you can collapse on fools who travel between lanes. I trust you can use your own judgment when splitpushing, it's not that Eve specific after all. If you went with any other teamcomp, there isn't any cookie cutter strat I can offer you just USE YOUR OWN JUDGMENT GOD FKIN DAMMIT it's not that hard. You can bait baron without an AoE comp just fine and you can push lanes without splitpushing just fine etc. If you are behind, and can't be aggresive in any of these ways: Well, you have no waveclear and no poke. Whether they are sieging or baiting nash, you can't do jack except for engaging. So stay back unless you think a time for engage has come, and dear god make sure to dodge poke (ITS YOUR ONLY JOB AS OF NOW). Whether time for engage has come is up to you. Press R, press W and hope you chose the right time. Teamfights: use your ult at the VERY VERY start of the teamfight. No use saving it up for 2+ seconds. If you don't have Zhonyas AND they don't have an AoE comp, you probably want to just focus the target everyone else is focusing and pick up your W reset asap. If it is an AoE comp, it is probably a good idea to spread them out not just sideways, but deep; you won't help your teammates survive by staying close to them, so heroic charge it probably is (OR waiting in the back for prolonger amount of time. Can be appropriate sometimes). If you have Zhonyas AND you know you can chase off the enemy carry and still have your team close enough after 2s of gold to help you out, go for it. If not, do the same as above. Teammates and Enemies: AoE and splitpush works well as I mentioned, anything else works well too though, it's just less cookie cutter and more thought. Enemies are hard CC that can be focused on you, but it's not that bad. AoE kinda sucks to go against too but it's workable. No super strong enemies and versatility make you a viable first pick. any comments/questions/criticisms NOTE: THIS IS JUNGLE EVE GUIDE. Idc is Tear is legit on lane Eve or not because it doesn't concern this guide. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Skill order: QEWQQR Q>W>E>R, no compromises or reasons to ever do anything different here. Did you mean R>Q>W>E instead? Since Eve doesn't have very good AP ratios and there aren't really any great AD items on her (...) building tankiness after Haunting/Lizard/Rylais/Zhonyas is really awkward. This one's confusing too, did you mean "isn't really awkward" (since you talk about building her as a tank earlier)? | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
On July 11 2013 03:43 wei2coolman wrote: No Venn Diagram; not convinced. Has to find more champs wearing only underwear. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
both fixed now. Any more comments/criticisms? | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On July 11 2013 04:27 mordek wrote: Has to find more champs wearing only underwear. Pantheon obv. Maybe detailing a bit more on Rylai vs Zhonya in the final guide? I see most of the people building the former just repeating "But it slows so you can chase and they won't avoid your damage, it's so good!" when outside of laning phase (where killing before they reach tower is important) your W's passive is usually enough to keep up with anyone, and if you can get Rylai during the laning phase then you're probably hugely fed anyway, which made me ignore the argument as misguided. If there's more to it maybe clarify/detail it so readers get a better grasp? I haven't read many Eve guides but I don't see the splitpushing/punishing splitters mentioned often so that's an important point to make I feel, often neglected (never thought about it myself before reading your skeleton). | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Why go Rylais at all: Thking about it it's not necessarily a must have item in the teamfight focused comps where actually getting more tankiness (Zhonyas) would be better. When splitpushing though, it matters a lot more how quickly you can chase someone down and over how much distance you have to chase him before you kill him, ESPECIALLY if you dive the solo lanes or do similiar shenanigans So Ill make this importnat distinction, thanks for bringing it to my attnetion. I guess I'll expand on more specific things (especially champion picks) for the splitpushing thing tommorow, but the general idea is that you have people who can disengage 3vx pretty easily (Janna works the best, Lulu, Jayce, etc.) which allows you to stay nearby one of the lanes being pushed and engage on either the 3 (if they decide to 2-3) or the 1 (if they decide to 1-4) in an opportune moment. | ||
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